Poll: Would you harbor a nazi?
- Thread starter Drake_Dercon
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Yes, indeed it does.kman123 said:
If he would approach you/threaten you with a knife, you are permitted to brandish your firearm in an attempt to deter him.
If he attacks you with said knife, you are permitted to, to put it bluntly, put him down. To go into finer detail, you are permitted to use lethal force to stop your attacker. If he dies in such a situation, it would be considered Self-Defense. It is you against someone attempting to inflict serious, possibly long lasting injury upon you with the(assumed) intent of killing you. :/
It would be a no or me.
Not because I think at this point he deserves it, I mean dissabordanation meant you got shot when it came to the German army. But if police are already looking for him, it wouldn't matter anyways, they are going to get him. I personally wouldn't wan't to got to jail for harboring him from authorizes.
Not because I think at this point he deserves it, I mean dissabordanation meant you got shot when it came to the German army. But if police are already looking for him, it wouldn't matter anyways, they are going to get him. I personally wouldn't wan't to got to jail for harboring him from authorizes.
Efraim Zuroff - The Last Nazi Huntersilasbufu said:
Do you know how he operates?
I will explain
he sees your father was conscripted in the Waffen SS conscripted 1 day before the German surrender.
[ no chance whatsoever to get near a concentration camp or even get basic training]
your father + Waffen SS = Jew killer -> Death penalty
if that is justice then I am happy that I am blind, then justice is not only blind, but has incredibly selective hearing too!
Tha Nazis were paragons of society.
They gave to charity, encouraged education and unity. They got most of the western world behind their cause with a broad grin and positive results. The Nazis were masters of propaganda and manipulation, right up to the bitter end.
Why would you assume that his years as a perfect neighbour were anything else than his building escape routes for when the past caught up to bite him?
The cops, they're getting a call.
They gave to charity, encouraged education and unity. They got most of the western world behind their cause with a broad grin and positive results. The Nazis were masters of propaganda and manipulation, right up to the bitter end.
Why would you assume that his years as a perfect neighbour were anything else than his building escape routes for when the past caught up to bite him?
The cops, they're getting a call.
So let's just see. They who win get to decide what a War Crime is. I believe I have seen photos of Allied soldiers abusing prisoners in the Middle East. During the Vietnam War I would say more than a few villages and innocents were killed for sport by the western military. If those nations had the force and reach of the US, would there be trials for War Crimes for what the "good guys" did? I am going to guess they were not following orders either.HG131 said:
If given a choice of your own life against a stranger's -- if we had the proverbial gun to our heads and all we had to do was have some stranger killed not even by our own hand (just give the order) -- how many of us would truly be martyrs? Just following orders is a viable excuse when your life is forfeit if you don't. With what this Nazi regime did to the Jewish people with little to no provocation, would they really not treat insubordination just as harshly if not worse? Given the options -- I am not sure we'd all make the morally correct decision. Perhaps there where people who tried to stand up against the orders they were given. I don't believe any of those people survived the war.
On topic for harboring -- I am not going to go to jail for a "crime" someone else committed. If the witch hunt continues who am I. I am after all just following orders by turning them in - no matter how nice they are - no matter the circumstances -- standing up against the decision to track them down as a war criminal would bring consequences to me - why not just wash my hands of it and let them do what they want to this person. Better him than me. See how easy it is to just follow orders?
War Crime is an oxymoron -- War is not civilized. War can not be held to the ideals of times when we are not at war. Taking another human life outside of the circumstances of war is a crime. Taking multiple human lives by any means necessary during a war makes you a hero. Drawing a line as to what is an acceptably horrible means of killing someone and what is an unacceptably horrible means makes for a fuzzy line.
The problem is, as it is America and we speak about an elderly man, who has to be brought to Hag it is a very dangerous journey and will take a lot of energy, and could be lethal to him. Secondly in the Jewish community, very strongly in Israel is the sentiment that every Nazi,a army cook, a typist for a army delivery service no exception have taken part in the genocide, if you put a person before trial got an eye witness, even if he does not recognise the person in front of him he will testify, because it is a Nazi after all and they all are guilty. There are many such cases.Generic Gamer said:
There have been so many genocides, but why do Jews insist that theirs was worse? in fact it wasn't, it was one of the most human ones in comparison to American, who starved to death the native Americans and Russia who starved away 10% of its population and few millions of the Ukrainians as a bonus, that was horrible.
I believe its long time we stopped pity the Jews they do not deserve it, not since they started to exterminate Palestinians.
I can't forgive him. No one can. The only people who have the right to forgive him are the ones he killed/hurt, and they, for the most part, would be dead.
I would turn him over to the authorities. I would ask the Israeli government if they wanted him, and if they did want to put him on trial, I would hand him over to them.
It doesn't matter if he helped other people later in life - the ones he helped torture and kill aren't coming back. He can't help them. Compassion to others does NOT erase the crime done to past victims, and those victims deserve justice.
If someone killed or tortured a member of my family in cold blood (like the Nazis did in the Camps), I simply do not care how many good deeds they do later - I want him punished most severely. I do not care how long ago it was, it would still hurt. Likewise - all the good deeds later in life can't make his victims spring back to life.
Not only that - the people who served in those camps were, to a man, evil. I will accept that not all German Soldiers were evil, and certainly not all German civilians were evil, but those Nazis that worked at that camp were evil. They could have transferred out if they didn't want to, but they chose to stay in those camps. SS guards were handpicked out of a group the worst, meanest and obedient bastards, as THE worst, meanest, obedient bastards. To be signed up as a camp guard meant that you had to have already proven your barbarism, evil and cruelty to be above the others in the SS pack. Only the worst of the worst were chosen for that job.
So - I wouldn't forgive him. Even if he did change, that doesn't excuse the crimes he did in the past, and if even ONE of the victims he hurt or killed wanted him dead, he deserves to die. What right do I have to forgive him in the place of all those he killed? On the other hand, I'm pretty damn sure some of his victims would want him dead - and if I can even imagine ONE of his victims wanting him to be punished (and let's face it, many of his victims, were they alive today, would want severe justice meted out), I would hand him to the authorities pronto.
I wouldn't kill him. I'd leave that pleasure to the Israeli authorities - they can do to him what they did to Eichmann.
I would turn him over to the authorities. I would ask the Israeli government if they wanted him, and if they did want to put him on trial, I would hand him over to them.
It doesn't matter if he helped other people later in life - the ones he helped torture and kill aren't coming back. He can't help them. Compassion to others does NOT erase the crime done to past victims, and those victims deserve justice.
If someone killed or tortured a member of my family in cold blood (like the Nazis did in the Camps), I simply do not care how many good deeds they do later - I want him punished most severely. I do not care how long ago it was, it would still hurt. Likewise - all the good deeds later in life can't make his victims spring back to life.
Not only that - the people who served in those camps were, to a man, evil. I will accept that not all German Soldiers were evil, and certainly not all German civilians were evil, but those Nazis that worked at that camp were evil. They could have transferred out if they didn't want to, but they chose to stay in those camps. SS guards were handpicked out of a group the worst, meanest and obedient bastards, as THE worst, meanest, obedient bastards. To be signed up as a camp guard meant that you had to have already proven your barbarism, evil and cruelty to be above the others in the SS pack. Only the worst of the worst were chosen for that job.
So - I wouldn't forgive him. Even if he did change, that doesn't excuse the crimes he did in the past, and if even ONE of the victims he hurt or killed wanted him dead, he deserves to die. What right do I have to forgive him in the place of all those he killed? On the other hand, I'm pretty damn sure some of his victims would want him dead - and if I can even imagine ONE of his victims wanting him to be punished (and let's face it, many of his victims, were they alive today, would want severe justice meted out), I would hand him to the authorities pronto.
I wouldn't kill him. I'd leave that pleasure to the Israeli authorities - they can do to him what they did to Eichmann.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legionravensheart18 said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/mar/18/latvia-waffen-ss-protest
there is the example of the Nazi hunt my country faces
My grandfather was conscripted in our family home at gunpoint[ not only him, but the whole family]
And now when I go the remember him and his comrades who did nothing to the Jews, they call us names, I just do not believe in such justice.
Read, understand, and then we can speak about the Nazi hunt, and what people understand and where they just shout Nazi.
What if he was Latvian Legion?
I think if this person is truly sorry, then they should be able to turn themselves in and let come what may. I am persuaded by a person who pointed out that they were an officer and that he had a responsability; if he were just a conscripted grunt I dont know if it'd be the same.
And remember - you had to sign up to be a Nazi. Most Germans weren't. Nazi membership wasn't compulsory. In fact, if you were a higher up in the military, you COULDN'T be a member of the Nazi party (although more than a few Wermacht generals were Nazis in Spirit if not in name). To be an SS member, especially a Camp Guard, meant that this individual would have had to have been a volunteer, an enthusiastic Nazi party supporter. Again, they didn't give camp jobs to anyone - they made SURE that only the most sadistic, racist, brutal members of the SS got that job.
I really have no sympathies with any Nazi Party Member above the age of 18. I will grudgingly accept that maybe some of the Nazi Party Youth members should be spared (since a lot of them were pressured into it by their parents), but anyone who joined the Nazi party as an adult doesn't deserve sympathy. Again, a lot of Germans weren't Nazi Party members. Most Germans, in fact, weren't Nazi Party Members. He had a choice, and it was not a "Life or Death" Choice - it was a choice between Career Advancement and Wealth, or morality. To join the Nazi party incurred great privileges and opportunity. To not join the Nazi party would lock you out of the highest jobs, but you could still have a pretty successful career. To those who joined the Nazi Party - either they must have been racists who agreed with what the Nazi Party espoused, or they must have cared more about getting that next job promotion over the rights of their fellow citizens. Again - joining was purely a choice. If you didn't want to join, you didn't have to.
Not all Nazi party members were guilty of war crimes, but odds are if you worked or had anything to do with those camps, you ARE guilty of war crimes. SS members were almost certainly, to a man, guilty of crimes against humanity. During the war with the Soviet Union, you had entire SS divisions following behind the regular army, and their job (which they did efficiently) was to just kill all Jews and anyone suspected of being members of the Communist Party, as well as to "punish" villagers for partisan activity. They would machine gun hundreds of people from a village just because a German soldier was killed by a partisan near-by. They killed and starved, ON PURPOSE, at the very least hundreds of THOUSANDS of Russian citizens who had done no harm to them.
Given the SHEER AMOUNT of blood shed by the SS (and it is truly mind-boggling how many they killed), odds are every single SS officer had murdered at least one civilian in cold blood. They don't deserve any pity from us.
I really have no sympathies with any Nazi Party Member above the age of 18. I will grudgingly accept that maybe some of the Nazi Party Youth members should be spared (since a lot of them were pressured into it by their parents), but anyone who joined the Nazi party as an adult doesn't deserve sympathy. Again, a lot of Germans weren't Nazi Party members. Most Germans, in fact, weren't Nazi Party Members. He had a choice, and it was not a "Life or Death" Choice - it was a choice between Career Advancement and Wealth, or morality. To join the Nazi party incurred great privileges and opportunity. To not join the Nazi party would lock you out of the highest jobs, but you could still have a pretty successful career. To those who joined the Nazi Party - either they must have been racists who agreed with what the Nazi Party espoused, or they must have cared more about getting that next job promotion over the rights of their fellow citizens. Again - joining was purely a choice. If you didn't want to join, you didn't have to.
Not all Nazi party members were guilty of war crimes, but odds are if you worked or had anything to do with those camps, you ARE guilty of war crimes. SS members were almost certainly, to a man, guilty of crimes against humanity. During the war with the Soviet Union, you had entire SS divisions following behind the regular army, and their job (which they did efficiently) was to just kill all Jews and anyone suspected of being members of the Communist Party, as well as to "punish" villagers for partisan activity. They would machine gun hundreds of people from a village just because a German soldier was killed by a partisan near-by. They killed and starved, ON PURPOSE, at the very least hundreds of THOUSANDS of Russian citizens who had done no harm to them.
Given the SHEER AMOUNT of blood shed by the SS (and it is truly mind-boggling how many they killed), odds are every single SS officer had murdered at least one civilian in cold blood. They don't deserve any pity from us.
Where was it said that he helped in any way?Korolev said:
For all we know he could have been an U-Bot(German submarine) captain
This is the reason I would protect him, then there is just too much prejudice going around and too many people who ignorantly follow propaganda.
Read up something about the WW2 suggest some East European history book, we had both occupations.
or better Get the Soviet story documentary.
The Allies also performed atrocities on a regular basis, the were both EQUALLY evil.
But as they say, History is written by the victors.
Many people don't understand that most Nazis were just soldiers, who just fought, no torture, no camps, just fought.
But as they say, History is written by the victors.
Many people don't understand that most Nazis were just soldiers, who just fought, no torture, no camps, just fought.
Here's one of his "victims" : Aribert Heim - reportedly killed hundreds of inmates at the Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria by injecting gasoline into their hearts and performing surgery and severing organs without anaesthesia.Kouryuu said:
Listen, there are always two sides to a story and I'm more than willing to admit the huge flaws of justice system and that alot of judges are subjective. The fact of the matter is, I might be subjective too, I'm really sorry for the German soldiers that really were forced into doing what they did (you can't deny that there weren't any nazi soldiers who actually enjoyed doing what they did), but I hate nazism and everything it stood and stands for. That's something that won't change. And I'm also sorry for Germany because it's a fantastic country and they'll never going to get rid of that "stain" in their history and the way ignorant people still refer to any german as "nazi" , but on the other side of the table, there are tenths of millions of absolutely unnecesary deaths which can lead anyone to be subjective.
If he's a criminal than it would be a crime to hide him. I have faith in our justice system that he would be punished for his crimes accordingly. The same goes for any sort of criminal.
it's not like hiding Jews from Nazis as they hadn't done anything wrong, and they were being imprisoned for different reasons.
it's not like hiding Jews from Nazis as they hadn't done anything wrong, and they were being imprisoned for different reasons.