Poll: Would you play an RPG that hides stats from the player?

[Epona]

Sure. I think it would be a pretty cool idea. And it's not like I play RPGs for the stats and numbers. I play them to role-play a character in an interesting setting. Numbers help you get a good feel for when something is better than your current equipment just by looking at it's stats, but it's always possible to try it out and get a feel instead.

Wasting loads of money to buy and try out gear would get really old fast and before long everyone would just be looking up which gear they should buy online or in a strat guide.

 

[GraveeKing]

Brilliant idea! I think it's a good idea, although maybe SOME signs on how well you're doing, such as if you practiced with swords you could ask a trainer how well they think you're doing and they say - 'Well, I think you're A, B / C' learning quickly, gradually getting better or about the same as last time, which would be able to tell the player only how much they're learning - not the actual numbers!

Just asking others of their opinion on your character would be a way of figuring out skill, but again - a villager who has never seen combat may think your sword skills are masterful, where a solder would say they're terrible, so it'd be npcs giving opinion rather than cold hard facts.

 

[dubious_wolf]

Sure. I think it would be a pretty cool idea. And it's not like I play RPGs for the stats and numbers. I play them to role-play a character in an interesting setting. Numbers help you get a good feel for when something is better than your current equipment just by looking at it's stats, but it's always possible to try it out and get a feel instead.

Wasting loads of money to buy and try out gear would get really old fast and before long everyone would just be looking up with gear they should buy online or in a strat guide.

It'd be like a buyers guide but with armour and weapons. Hey, don't buyers guides often rank their favorite items buy using contrived number systems?

 

[kebab4you]

No, I like numbers, a lot, even better if I got charts to put those numbers into.

 

[Epona]

Sure. I think it would be a pretty cool idea. And it's not like I play RPGs for the stats and numbers. I play them to role-play a character in an interesting setting. Numbers help you get a good feel for when something is better than your current equipment just by looking at it's stats, but it's always possible to try it out and get a feel instead.

Wasting loads of money to buy and try out gear would get really old fast and before long everyone would just be looking up with gear they should buy online or in a strat guide.

It'd be like a buyers guide but with armour and weapons. Hey, don't buyers guides often rank their favorite items buy using contrived number systems?

Yes they do.

See, that's just it, there is a reason RPG's use numbers, it works really (x4) well. Maybe we should consider changing phone numbers too, those are a crutch for people who don't want to use the touchscreen to draw symbols to call people.

 

[Epona]

Brilliant idea! I think it's a good idea, although maybe SOME signs on how well you're doing, such as if you practiced with swords you could ask a trainer how well they think you're doing and they say - 'Well, I think you're A, B / C' learning quickly, gradually getting better or about the same as last time, which would be able to tell the player only how much they're learning - not the actual numbers!

Just asking others of their opinion on your character would be a way of figuring out skill, but again - a villager who has never seen combat may think your sword skills are masterful, where a solder would say they're terrible, so it'd be npcs giving opinion rather than cold hard facts.

All this is about is re-inventing the wheel. RPG's have been giving the player the information he/she needs since atleast the SNES era. Trying to complicate this just because it's different is silly.

It's ok though, you walk back to town and ask someone to read your stats and explain them to you, I'll just open my menu and read them myself.

 

[midknight129]

Would I play one? My wife and I are in the process of designing one. Sure, given that it has to work on a computer platform, the "numbers" will be there, but the actual in-game interface won't be "quantitative" at all. Most of the values will be completely hidden, and those that, by necessity, can't be hidden will be qualitatively displayed (Novice, Advanced, Expert, Master, etc). You tell how strong you are by how easily (or not easily) you make it through encounters and you will really need to "feel out" your character to tell how strong they are. Sure, some people will invariably find a way to hax the system for their Munchkins... but that's nearly unavoidable these days. Anyone who really wants to RP is free to just ignore whatever technical info leaks out.

 

[mionic]

Hides the stats?
Why yes. Yes I would.

 

[Epona]

I prefer stats. Obviously "In Real Life" you don't have little stat numbers displayed to discern a persons abilities. But then "Real Life" has physical feed back. I know how much I can bench press, how far I can run, how flexible I am and generally what I can/cannot do.
Video games don't have this, and while that may seem obvious, it's important because you can't discern this from a video game because there isn't an physical feedback. by using health bars, magic bars, strength and agility measures, players can assess how capable their character is at performing a task.
I was a little pissed when Bethesda took may stats away. I'm over it now because it's not worth the ulcers.

Additionally if I had to "practice" to see how "good" my character is at every single skill there would be an unnecessary amount of time I have to spend in order to "start" playing. I don't play RPG's video games to spend months patiently practicing and honing a skill to perfection to finally go out and take on a small group of bandits hold up outside the village. I play video game RPG's to escape from the doldrums of the world I'm in and pretend that I'm a warrior-god-king, who can slay an entire nations worth of people and stock pile enough virtual gold to bail out all of Europe three times over and still have enough to pay for a New York Suite and several concubines.

If I wanted the "satisfaction" of figuring out how bad I was at something I would go take broadsword lessons... Or attempt to pickpocket my friendly neighborhood police officer.


Edit:
I would also like to add that I have never "played the numbers" in my experience with RPG's. the beauty of a numbers system is there is no requirement to do so. I vaguely pay attention to hard numbers when comparing equipment or statues. But the numbers are there for those who enjoy playing "mathhammer" Everybody wins.

I agree with this post completely.

Now for the edit: I have not, nor have I known anyone who sits around crunching numbers for an RPG. This idea that some people have that we sit around with a calculator or scratch paper trying to plan our next level up is ridiculous. The stats are there to tell you if the weapon you are viewing is better than the weapon you have an by how much or to tell you how far you've advanced since the last time you checked you strength. Also nice to put on a stat bonus accessory and see how much it affected the stat.

On the other hand, with this hidden stats idea, we might actually need scratch paper and calculators.

 

[dubious_wolf]

Sure. I think it would be a pretty cool idea. And it's not like I play RPGs for the stats and numbers. I play them to role-play a character in an interesting setting. Numbers help you get a good feel for when something is better than your current equipment just by looking at it's stats, but it's always possible to try it out and get a feel instead.

Wasting loads of money to buy and try out gear would get really old fast and before long everyone would just be looking up with gear they should buy online or in a strat guide.

It'd be like a buyers guide but with armour and weapons. Hey, don't buyers guides often rank their favorite items buy using contrived number systems?

Yes they do.

See, that's just it, there is a reason RPG's use numbers, it works really (x4) well. Maybe we should consider changing phone numbers too, those are a crutch for people who don't want to use the touchscreen to draw symbols to call people.

Let's get rid of grades too, and IQ scores. They are such and archaic way of measuring intelligence . We should get rid of money too. It's just a convenient way to measure wealth, and set prices. Barter systems all the way dawg.

 

[Guardian of Nekops]

Sure.

Although I'd rather they just get rid of the stats altogether.

Agree.

RPG's are suppose to be about talking to the characters, learning their stories, and acquiring spifftastic stuff that LOOKS cool. Stats just get in the way, making people go for ugly stuff simply because it's +1 damage. Sooner stats go away, the sooner people get to wear what they want to wear.

See, the problem with this is that then it stops being GEAR and starts being akin to Team Fortress 2 hats. If there are no stats, there's no reason for your tank to wear armor, or use a sword and shield, as opposed to going into battle naked.

Which means that giving out the gear is no longer anything other than an asthetic reward, and that "everyone wearing what they want to wear" will soon devolve into "everyone running around in their starting underwear and beating people with their fists, wearing an absurd hat" because they think it's far funnier than it is. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Stats are good. Weapons are made for specific purposes... a bow should be better at shooting arrows than it is at whacking people over the head, and like it or not, numbers are the way we make that so.

 

[dubious_wolf]

You know this could make for an interesting economics study... The perception of cost/benefit in RPG video games. Because let's face it stat comparison is just a simple exercise in economic theory.

 

[Epona]

Sure. I think it would be a pretty cool idea. And it's not like I play RPGs for the stats and numbers. I play them to role-play a character in an interesting setting. Numbers help you get a good feel for when something is better than your current equipment just by looking at it's stats, but it's always possible to try it out and get a feel instead.

Wasting loads of money to buy and try out gear would get really old fast and before long everyone would just be looking up with gear they should buy online or in a strat guide.

It'd be like a buyers guide but with armour and weapons. Hey, don't buyers guides often rank their favorite items buy using contrived number systems?

Yes they do.

See, that's just it, there is a reason RPG's use numbers, it works really (x4) well. Maybe we should consider changing phone numbers too, those are a crutch for people who don't want to use the touchscreen to draw symbols to call people.

Let's get rid of grades too, and IQ scores. They are such and archaic way of measuring intelligence . We should get rid of money too. It's just a convenient way to measure wealth, and set prices. Barter systems all the way dawg.

Revolution starting in this thread. I'll call the bank and let them know that numbers are so 2011 and that soon we will be writing checks with symbols and facial animations. I'll be sure to mention how numbers are a crutch. LOL

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Sure.

Although I'd rather they just get rid of the stats altogether.

That is a terrible idea. It would completely take away character progression.

Yeah, you don't say. And I wouldn't be sorry to see it go.

Like I said to the last guy, I play RPGs for story, character and (sometimes) the gameplay, not so I can experience the excitement and cerebral depth of giving my fighter +2 to strength and endurance.

I don't particularly mind the presence of stats, but they're just busywork to me.

Then RPGs aren't the genre for you. Asking a genre to fundamentally change so you can better enjoy it shows that it might not be the genre for you. I'd like FPS to be more story driven and put less emphasis on the action. I don't like them that much in the first place. But me asking them to drastically change is unfair to fans of the genre and is unrealistic.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.

How do you figure?

RPG stands for "role-playing game." The purpose of the game is the story. Years of min/maxing DnD munchkins and video game stat-monkeys have socially created the idea that stats are what make an RPG. This idea has been grafted into the genre, but it still exists outside the core defintion of a "role-playing game."

A "role-playing game" is a game where the player PLAYS a ROLE in an unfolding story, and any system for determining pass/fail and limiting what the player can and can't do is sufficient to give the framework for playing a role in a story, whether it has stats or not.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

That sounds cool, but the game would need to be forgiving at first so we wouldn't hate it. Gamers love their stats.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.

How do you figure?

RPG stands for "role-playing game." The purpose of the game is the story. Years of min/maxing DnD munchkins and video game stat-monkeys have socially created the idea that stats are what make an RPG. This idea has been grafted into the genre, but it still exists outside the core defintion of a "role-playing game."

A "role-playing game" is a game where the player PLAYS a ROLE in an unfolding story, and any system for determining pass/fail and limiting what the player can and can't do is sufficient to give the framework for playing a role in a story, whether it has stats or not.

also this.

 

[Epona]

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.

How do you figure?

RPG stands for "role-playing game." The purpose of the game is the story. Years of min/maxing DnD munchkins and video game stat-monkeys have socially created the idea that stats are what make an RPG. This idea has been grafted into the genre, but it still exists outside the core defintion of a "role-playing game."

A "role-playing game" is a game where the player PLAYS a ROLE in an unfolding story, and any system for determining pass/fail and limiting what the player can and can't do is sufficient to give the framework for playing a role in a story, whether it has stats or not.

So Mario is an RPG? Fantastic, fond memories of saving Peach in Mario 64.

 

[Brawndo]

Sure.

Although I'd rather they just get rid of the stats altogether.

That is a terrible idea. It would completely take away character progression.

Yeah, you don't say. And I wouldn't be sorry to see it go.

Like I said to the last guy, I play RPGs for story, character and (sometimes) the gameplay, not so I can experience the excitement and cerebral depth of giving my fighter +2 to strength and endurance.

I don't particularly mind the presence of stats, but they're just busywork to me.

Then RPGs aren't the genre for you. Asking a genre to fundamentally change so you can better enjoy it shows that it might not be the genre for you. I'd like FPS to be more story driven and put less emphasis on the action. I don't like them that much in the first place. But me asking them to drastically change is unfair to fans of the genre and is unrealistic.

No one is asking for an entire genre to change. This thread is about whether or not you would play an (as in one) RPG that does stats differently. I think a game like this, if well-executed and properly balanced, could be a huge step forward in innovation.

But even if we revolutionized the genre it does not mean that all other RPGs would have to follow suit. The game mechanics in Call of Duty 4 were a huge innovation for FPS games, but you still have shooters like Bulletstorm and Serious Sam 3 that are doing their own thing.