Yopaz said:
So what you're saying is that the only thing that matters in an RPG is stats? That definition never include what defines a genre?
I have checked the difinition of role-playing games as a whole. There's no mention of stats. No mention of it in table top. Yet you agree that it is the only feature that defines an RPG?
In that case Mass Effect is an RPG rather than an action game with RPG elements. The X-men games are now RPG games because they feature stats, level up, customization and that stuff.
Call of Duty features stats level up and customization so following that definition almost every bloody game released in 2011 is an RPG because by the definition I am arguing against stats is the only part that defines an RPG.
No, that isn't what I'm saying at all.
Stop trying to argue from the position of what is contained within a definition of something. This is a bad argumentative position. What the definition says about something neither includes nor excludes all of that things qualities or constituent parts. To take this argument to its logical extreme: stats are not mentioned in the definition of an RPG, ergo there are no stats in RPGs.
By the definition you cite, yes, Mass Effect is an RPG. It features common elements with table-top RPGs, including: story telling, character creation, character progression, the player controls various members of a party of adventurers, etc., etc. I've never actually played any of the X-men games you mention, though I did watch someone play through a level or two once. Again, by the definition you're so keen on relying on, it contains most of the elements that 'define' an RPG. Story telling? Check. Character progression? Check. Player controlling party members? Check. Replayability and immersion? Check.
What actually matters here is whether the stats are the only thing matters in a computer RPG and, frankly, they are. You can imagine all the colourful detailed background you like for your version of Sheppard, the Dovahkiin or The Courier. You can pretend that you're a edda reciting Bard, wandering the taverns of Skyrim and singing for the coins to buy the bread and apple cabbage stew that sustain you.
But you can't actually do that. Because the game's stats won't let you.
What I'm saying is that hiding the stats from the players of computer RPGs won't do much to prevent people from reductionist, grinding numbers to improve other numbers play. Because, for all that computer RPGs parade the trappings of other RPG settings where you can play as the character you have created, beyond the dots on his character sheet, and that activity will be meaningful to the game world, they rarely live up to this and so, players are reduced to killing X goblins for Y gold and Z XP to get to Level A in order to increase Statistic B.