Poll: WWO2 shooters

[Lord Mountbatten Reborn]

What the hell is WWO2? Someone is studying from American history books...

I had/have no idea what WWO2 is. Nor do I understand how you can blame American history books for the term WWO2, as I've never seen that in any history book ever. Maybe there's some new history book that I haven't read? One which came out in the last couple of weeks or possibly months? Not that I keep up to date on these things, but I haven't heard the youth of my country saying WWO2...So I don't think it's an American thing...Though we do like to add extra letters to acronyms and stuff...

Huzzah for shameless genericism on my account! My American friends tell me terrible things about their history texts, so I decided it was now the time to make a hilarious joke about it, inter alia.

And the NORAD acronym terrifies me.

 

[Evil Tim]

I've wanted to play a WW2 game from the Germans perspective for AGES. Not all Nazis were teh satan. It's a lot like racist people today, everyone knows one.

It's more that it's difficult to make the player enthusiastic about fighting for a worthless cause, or make them feel like they've actually accomplished anything afterwards. Either you lose or the entire world does.

 

[Outofideas]

WWO2? World War Oxygen?

Anyway, I have a hard time thinking of a different past-war theme for a shooter that would work. WW1? 10 Hours of peeking over a trench sounds REAL exciting, and anything before that would involve a lot of open fields and square formations...

 

[sooperman]

Weren't all the WW2 games out about 6 months ago?

Besides the aforementioned "the saboteur" I can't think of another WW2 game coming out, although I am a bit behind on games that are coming out soon.

(ps. whats (sp?) in "gruff Sargent(SP?)")

It means "Spelling?".

OT: WW(0?)2 games are bad, but only because there are too many shovelware games about the same battles over and over. WWII from a Nazi's point of view, or any German, really, would be refreshing but probably wouldn't be well-received.

 

[Wintermoot]

The WW2 genre has become overflooded because no one has the guts to make it different or controversial, like to play as the Germans. It doesn't have to go so far on the controversal chart but anything besides Normandie or Stalingrad would be a fresh breeze.

The Winter war in Finland would be marvelous or maybe play as the Germans during Market Garden (CoH ripoff but that campaign are excellent and would make a fun base)

I've wanted to play a WW2 game from the Germans perspective for AGES. Not all Nazis were teh satan. It's a lot like racist people today, everyone knows one.

NOTE: I'm not pro-Nazi or racist, I'm just saying that Nazi soldiers had families and such too, they don't all HAVE to be cannon fodder for your MP40

a game where you play the Nazi,s might be a change of pace but it won,t be "patriotic"

 

[RyQ_TMC]

I said it numerous times on these forums, I'll say it again here: there is much more to WW2 than the indeed overdone American and Soviet offensives at the end of the war. Many "canonical" weapons we know from games set in the last phase of the war were not introduced earlier. The Wehrmacht (particularly the Heer) which invaded Western Poland in the September Campaign was a completely different Wehrmacht to the one which conquered Benelux and France and proceeded to the Barbarossa. The Soviet army had seen development over the years as well, while the fundamental "position the NKVD behind the army and let them shoot forward, to herd soldiers towards the enemy" tactics stayed the same, but the weaponry has changed and towards the end of the war, even zerg rushing was cut down.

Battle of Britain is the only air warfare event featured in games, at least if we only consider the war in Europe. Only two airborne operations ever get spotlight: Normandy and Market Garden. What about Crete?

Well, bloody hell, WHY IS THERE NO GAME FEATURING THE POLISH HOME ARMY?!! The most advanced and best organized resistance movement of the war doesn't get even a second of proper screen-time, and the only game to even mention Polish guerilla units, Combat Mission, had them in Soviet uniforms. Ack!

WW2 is far from overdone, it's just that the dead Normandy horse has been beaten into a bloody pulp and the immensely popular (in recent years) Stalingrad got boring as well.

The Commandos series did a decent job depicting numerous theatres (probably because it was developed by the Spanish and therefore had an outside view on the war). But that's the only one so far. Oh, and it's not a shooter series, to stay OT.

 

[Chipperz]

They are't quite worn out yet.

They will be... Soon [http://dinodday.com/]...

 

[Paul]

I wouldn't say WWII games are overdone. It's a good war, in the sense that a lot of it has not been covered. The only parts of the war that are really covered are Normandy, and the generic shooting parts. There are many parts that aren't really covered as well. As one of the people above me suggested, there is very little shown in games about the Polish (the only WWII shooter that I know of, that even covered them, was CoD3).

If companies can either come up with some new ways to make WWII games less... generic, or they start covering less well known moments of the war, I think the era could still be covered in the world of gaming.

 

[project23]

in my opinion there are too much WWO2 shooters what do you think?

Henritje, can you PLEASE clarify what WWO2 is?

As everyone else, I assume it was intended to mean WWII (World War 2). As for WHY there are so many games about that period of time, here are a few of my thoughts. (takes a deep breath)

1. WWII has been romanticized.
WWII was our "father's father's war" (over 2 generations ago). It is far enough removed from 'our time' to give it an unreal quality so as be viewed with detachment, much like knights in shining armor era of the medieval ages, but close enough to our time to still fit the FPS genera. The stories of that war talk about the 'heroism born of need' and 'fighting the good fight'. The 'bad guys' are generally accepted to be the Axis powers and the 'good guys' are generally accepted to be the Allied powers. The who, when, why, and how has been boiled down and condensed to a refined romantic story. The Axis wanted to dominate the world by force and aggression while the Allies were pressed to rise up and stop them. These can be argued as a 'winners viewpoint' but that is beside the point. Moving on.

2. WWII is a well known story.
Nothing about the setting, equipment, armies involved, or drive for the conflict NEEDS to be created. As stated in point 1, people generally know who the good guys and the bad guys are. Factual history books tell us how the equipment performed and where/why the conflicts happened. This allows for a game to be instantly recognized by everyone with a basic learning in history without the game maker needing to spend tons of effort creating a well crafting world with histories, peoples, and items. Many futuristic FPS games fail to achieve a good market acceptance simply because the backstory is insufficient or poorly crafted. Creating a well crafted world is very hard to achieve and takes a very long time to be done well. This is also why fantasy games based on the general themes of Tolken are so widely accepted/successful. People already have a general idea of what Elves, Dwarves, and other fairy folk are.

3. WWII games still sell.
Other people will have their own reasons for buying WWII games, but this is how I feel. I personally like WWII games and dislike games based on more recent conflicts. I like the ability to fantasize about what it might be like in those times without any actual moral obligation. The conflict is long past and there is not a thing I can or could have done about it. War games that hit too close to current day conflicts always make me frustrated with, well, with current day conflicts. I don't want to be challenged by moral conflicts in my play time, I try to leave that to debate class in college. These ARE games and I'm no warrior outside my fantasy gaming. I hope to never shoot a gun in anger and I will never don a suite of armor, but I do enjoy games about those things. I play games to escape to a different time, not take out my nerd rage on people I don't like in the real world. For me, conflicts after WWII are too fresh. History has not yet, or may never be able to, romanticize those conflicts.

 

[project23]

I said it numerous times on these forums, I'll say it again here: there is much more to WW2 than the indeed overdone American and Soviet offensives at the end of the war. Many "canonical" weapons we know from games set in the last phase of the war were not introduced earlier. The Wehrmacht (particularly the Heer) which invaded Western Poland in the September Campaign was a completely different Wehrmacht to the one which conquered Benelux and France and proceeded to the Barbarossa.

Slightly off the OPs topic but very applicable in response to your statement (unstated request?). I feel this is a good example of what should be done with a properly marketed and published WWII game and has a lot of what you talk about.

Forgotten Hope, a total conversion realism mod for Battlefield 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:StrangerTF/Forgotten_Hope
http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Hope

Sadly this mod has really died down a lot in the last year or two (Its over 4 years old and HUGE for a mod) but there appears to be at least one active community that runs a server and is continuing to expand the content. They seem to regularly reach population cap (64 players) at least once a day.
http://pixel-fighter.com

Forgotten Hope (1) has over 53 original maps ranging from 1939-1945 with well over 250 custom pieces of properly placed period equipment spanning 4 theaters of the war; the Western & Eastern fronts, the Pacific, and North Africa. There is no such thing as 'balance' to make each side equal. If one side had better weapons at that battle, the best attempt was made to represent that in the map. The Polish maps (Fall Weiss and Eastern Blitz) are rather harsh in that respect as the Polish mainly had WWI surplus weapons while the Germans brought rather advanced (for the time) weaponry. Don't get me wrong, some liberty was taken to preserve the FUN factor, but its still a true struggle where appropriate. I have also never seen a better representation of the Gold Beach and Omaha Beach battlefields. The fact that it takes 3 players to fully man a Japaniese Type 95 Ha-Go light tank? Astounding! The roar and almost invincible feeling of driving a Tiger II in the Battle of Seelow Heights is a tankers powermongering wet dream. The British infantry tank Mk I Matilda-I is pretty dang funny to operate with its BLAZING speed of 8 miles per hour and yes, a brisk jog can keep up with it. If you cant tell I like tanks, and FH has a wide selection of them.

If you truly like WWII games then I strongly recommend you find a copy of Battlefield 1943 and start the massive download of the Forgotten Hope mod. It can be a pain to setup but is very worth the effort. Your thirst for WWII period combat WILL be slaked. If you really MUST see a slice of the mod before downloading, check out this FH trailer by Lobo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygNVTganStk

SIDE NOTE: Forgotten Hope 2 (Based on the Battlefield 2 engine) was nowhere near as developed as the original Forgotten Hope and only featured one theater (North Africa). I can't find a server still successfully running FH2 so give it a pass.

 

[WestMountain]

World War Of 2(WWO2)?

I agree that there are too many, I wanna fight in the Vietnam war abit more

 

[Wintermoot]

in my opinion there are too much WWO2 shooters what do you think?

Henritje, can you PLEASE clarify what WWO2 is?

As everyone else, I assume it was intended to mean WWII (World War 2). As for WHY there are so many games about that period of time, here are a few of my thoughts. (takes a deep breath)

1. WWII has been romanticized.
WWII was our "father's father's war" (over 2 generations ago). It is far enough removed from 'our time' to give it an unreal quality so as be viewed with detachment, much like knights in shining armor era of the medieval ages, but close enough to our time to still fit the FPS genera. The stories of that war talk about the 'heroism born of need' and 'fighting the good fight'. The 'bad guys' are generally accepted to be the Axis powers and the 'good guys' are generally accepted to be the Allied powers. The who, when, why, and how has been boiled down and condensed to a refined romantic story. The Axis wanted to dominate the world by force and aggression while the Allies were pressed to rise up and stop them. These can be argued as a 'winners viewpoint' but that is beside the point. Moving on.

2. WWII is a well known story.
Nothing about the setting, equipment, armies involved, or drive for the conflict NEEDS to be created. As stated in point 1, people generally know who the good guys and the bad guys are. Factual history books tell us how the equipment performed and where/why the conflicts happened. This allows for a game to be instantly recognized by everyone with a basic learning in history without the game maker needing to spend tons of effort creating a well crafting world with histories, peoples, and items. Many futuristic FPS games fail to achieve a good market acceptance simply because the backstory is insufficient or poorly crafted. Creating a well crafted world is very hard to achieve and takes a very long time to be done well. This is also why fantasy games based on the general themes of Tolken are so widely accepted/successful. People already have a general idea of what Elves, Dwarves, and other fairy folk are.

3. WWII games still sell.
Other people will have their own reasons for buying WWII games, but this is how I feel. I personally like WWII games and dislike games based on more recent conflicts. I like the ability to fantasize about what it might be like in those times without any actual moral obligation. The conflict is long past and there is not a thing I can or could have done about it. War games that hit too close to current day conflicts always make me frustrated with, well, with current day conflicts. I don't want to be challenged by moral conflicts in my play time, I try to leave that to debate class in college. These ARE games and I'm no warrior outside my fantasy gaming. I hope to never shoot a gun in anger and I will never don a suite of armor, but I do enjoy games about those things. I play games to escape to a different time, not take out my nerd rage on people I don't like in the real world. For me, conflicts after WWII are too fresh. History has not yet, or may never be able to, romanticize those conflicts.

well my problem is that we might as well make shooters set in a fantasy world instead of this world we already know the outcome of WWII so its a bit uninteresting (atleast in my opinion)and well the setting is pretty much done in every other media (movies and books)