Poll: YuGiOh or Magic:The Gathering, which is better?

[Geo Da Sponge]

No, that would be the one wherein you're more likely to win because your opponent cannot cover the cost of summoning due to not having enough Mana. Amazingly, having a greater depth doesn't mean broken. The metagame provides a tonne of ways to stop these combos.

Oh and bullcrap. Magic cannot do any of those. It has approximations, but it doesn't have anywhere near the depth of use for those.

Stop contridicting yourself. You cant say something like this

In fact, there are 13 ways to win on the first turn, without your opponent being able to do anything.

and then say that it is balanced. Unless of course you are full of shit which seems the case because you contridict yourself to many times.

Also no magic literally has every single one of those and except for traps which there is only a few of and are only kind of similar it had them many many years before yugioh came out.

You mean like how you claim that having a combo where you can win in what you refer to as zero turns is totally not broken? Difference is the metagame for yugioh provides means to actually cease combos that can work with cards that are useful outside of that one situation. Doing so turns attempting said first turn kills into a risk against multiple cards. Hence, balance.

And no, once again, Magic doesn't feature any of those elements to anywhere near the level of depth. Having a crude approximation of the effect of dual sacrifice does not have the same complexity of Synchro summoning, particularly the effects this in turn has on turnaround.

You know the 'turn zero' or any form of 'first turn win' combination is purely a novelty. They all require a mix of cards from different sets that wouldn't be legal in anything of significance, and most of the time they require you to get very lucky with your hand draw as well. Given that there are thousands of unique Magic cards it's hardly surprising that some impossible combinations turn up. There is, for example, one combination that lets you put every creature you own (not just in your deck, but literally everything you own) into play at once. But that's just a funny combination that someone thought up as a joke, it's not indicative of the overall balance of the experience. For a start, in proper tournament play 'cards you own' only includes a dozen or so cards (someone who knows more tournament play please clarify) that you set aside for this purpose.

And while you call it 'crude', I think it's far better for Magic to have a loose system based around actually explaining what a card does rather than just tying concepts like sacrificing for summoning to buzzwords and global game systems. The obvious exception are the keyword abilities, which are just used for the purpose of saving card space. Which is why, if they felt the need, they could perfectly mimic anything in Yu-Gi-Oh by actually writing it on the card.

 

[somonels]

M:tG.
Though people do say that Lot5R is better, never tried that though.

 

[babinro]

Determine what is most popular in your area and go with that game. Magic is likely the more popular game though, and if you're into tournaments you can get in some tournament fun any given Friday. The hobby is extremely expensive if you aim to be competitive though. The introduction of mythic rare have really added a barrier to entry.

Personally, I'd recommend a casual format like EDH (or commander if you prefer) since it only requires one of any good card and is extremely fun for casual and multiplayer gameplay. In addition, there have been new promo commander decks released just now that are a bargain considering it guarantees such staples like Sol Ring and Lightning Greaves.

 

[rayen020]

its an entirely subjective thing and you can only know for you. however i will say this, Magic isn't tied o a cartoon show and therefore not bound to make the plot device cards. I think yu-gi-oh would be better if the show was made for it and not vice versa. magic is alot more paced with it's releases and and doesn't have new rules popping up every TV season. seriously alot of the original YGO basic cards are not legal in tournaments anymore. Basically it comes down to do you still like the yu-gi-oh TV show? yes=ygo no=mtg

but thats just me. actually me i just have a deck for both why quabble over which is best?

 

[squeekenator]

Like I said, crude approximations. Having instants means (a) you are under no requirement to put them at risk, (b) the card is a one off use, and (c) you cannot use it as a perfect counter. Exile itself is one way, with no means to recover. Removed from play is just another set of cards that can be used. And considering Mana will almost always be doled out laboriously slow, while literally everying in the game can be used as tribute for YuGiOh, I'm missing how your land is supposed to be "superior" to the resource management of the position and placement of literally every card in play.

Well actually, it is a risk to keep instants in your hand. If you're playing against a discard deck you could lose them at any time, if you're against deck with any counters you have to constantly weigh up the odds of them countering, consider how many lands they have untapped, decide whether it's worth it to play it when they're tapped out, blah blah blah. But more importantly, by having an instant in your hand you're not using it, which basically puts you one card down for each instant, and that can lose you games. Not every instant is one-off (flashback, buyback and a few other mechanics), and there are plenty of permanents with flash. And what do you mean by 'perfect counter'?

Exile is one way now? You do realise that the reason they changed the term from 'remove from the game' to 'exile' is because the vast majority of exile effects weren't permanent and unrecoverable, right?

Mana is a superior mechanic because it provides pacing and allows for more opportunities. Mana only comes slowly if you don't choose to include any sort of acceleration in your deck, if it really bothers you that much you can play green and have enough mana to play anything in your deck by turn three. Yu-gi-oh is like an RTS where everyone starts with every building and every technology researched. It's great if all you want to do is get the big flashy uber units out ASAP, but removing the early game cuts out a huge amount of the strategy.

 

[The Random One]

Bah, back in the day there was only Magic and we LIKED IT.

Captcha is 'hard cheese', I thought the new system was supposed to make it stop being hilarious.

 

[squeekenator]

Because as we all know, the point of these things is to be slow and plodding. Thats what you want from your entertainment. Plus, regenerating your costs each turn makes it more akin to an RTS where your costs automatically pay themselves back when you've paid for something. This isn't resource management. Its just simple prioritising, there's no permanence to paying a cost

All of these are factors that tie into YuGiOh, except there is no deck out there that doesn't have something for dealing with Trap cards. So you're essentially limitting the ability to hold off spells to a few deck types, all others being SOL.

If you really find it that distressing that most decks won't play a creature within the first ten seconds of the game then I suppose I can see why you wouldn't want to play Magic. I personally prefer games that have some sort of pacing that allows you to focus on early, mid or late game, all of which play very differently, to one that ignores all that depth so I can get my SUPER AWESOME over 9000/over 9000 cards out on turn 1.

 

[Saltyk]

I feel like too many people are allowing their bias to color their judgment. But here's my two cents.

Yugi-Oh
A quick fast paced game. Lots of variety.
Pros
~fast paced
~variety of cards (monster/fusion/trap/spell/etc)
~simple to learn (though deep when you really get into it)
~older cards are still eligible for play
~games can turn around in a single turn
Cons
~too often cards have odd rulings that you have to find online
~90% of commons are worthless, even a lot of rares are pretty bad in competitive games
~if you learn from the show you don't know how to play

Magic
~a somewhat deeper strategy (your mileage may vary)
~resource management adds an extra level of planning and strategy
~even starter decks can be competitive
~larger player base
Cons
~generally slower paced
~have to keep up with the most recent sets as older sets are constantly being banned

Honestly, I see them as two sides of the same coin.

If you like the idea of fusion monsters, synchro monsters, sacrificing monsters for higher level ones, setting spell and traps, and quicker turns, play Yugi-Oh.

If you like to take your time, factoring in cost of a spell versus it's power, and generally like the concept of Magic's color system, play Magic.

Please note, I'm trying to be balanced in this discussion. I've played both. In my experience, I like Yugi-Oh better. This is largely due to the games being quicker (no summoning sickness; yes, I know about haste) and the fact that a single turn and really turn around a game (I've beaten a guy that still had the full 8000 life from 100 life). I can seriously tell who's gonna win in Magic by about the third turn. Momentum just means too much in Magic. Though, I have had plenty of fun playing Magic, too.

On the other hand, Magic almost seems simpler to play. The #1 Rule of Magic is that the card overrules any rule in Magic. If the card says you can do something against the rules, you can. Especially fun in unglued (this card says you have to go buy me a drink). While if you're playing Yugi-Oh competitively, you better know all the obscure rulings on how cards play, because there are a lot. Perfect example is Spell Shield Type-8. Original card says one of its effects is to negate and destroy any spell card at the cost of discarding one card from your hand. Turns out this was wrong, and it was supposed to read discarding one spell card from your hand. They fixed this on later editions, but it was still lame.

So compare and contrast.

Oh, and since people keep bringing it up, if you can beat your opponent on the first, second, or third turn, the game is broken. That's not fun. That's not a "fast paced game". That's stupid. And if you use a deck like that, you should just quit playing and get a life. Bottom line is that you should play any game because it's fun. Not because you win. That extends to general "meta game" concepts. Instead of copying the awesome deck that someone else built, why not build one yourself?

 

[LittleChone]

 

[AncientSpark]

Because as we all know, the point of these things is to be slow and plodding. Thats what you want from your entertainment. Plus, regenerating your costs each turn makes it more akin to an RTS where your costs automatically pay themselves back when you've paid for something. This isn't resource management. Its just simple prioritising, there's no permanence to paying a cost

All of these are factors that tie into YuGiOh, except there is no deck out there that doesn't have something for dealing with Trap cards. So you're essentially limitting the ability to hold off spells to a few deck types, all others being SOL.

If you really find it that distressing that most decks won't play a creature within the first ten seconds of the game then I suppose I can see why you wouldn't want to play Magic. I personally prefer games that have some sort of pacing that allows you to focus on early, mid or late game, all of which play very differently, to one that ignores all that depth so I can get my SUPER AWESOME over 9000/over 9000 cards out on turn 1.

You're using the wrong word. Pacing requires that the action come through in manageable levels. Having fuck all happen for four turns isn't proper pacing, its just slow.

Having a 1800 monster attack a set facedown is proper pacing, as it allows some immeditate manageable action. Keyword being action. Something must actually happen.

If you're not doing anything for four turns in Magic, your deck sucks and you're not playing Magic properly. Seriously. There's a reason why the Philosophy of Fire in Magic exists. Any deck, even in low powered formats like most Limited formats or casual "big-spell" formats like Commander have people throwing haymakers by the 3rd or 4th turn.

You know the most low power Constructed format in tournaments, Standard? Cards that cost 5 mana or more are nearly unplayable; they have to be really damn good, like Gideon Jura, or you have to be a mass acceleration deck that can win with said 5 mana+ card and do it by the 4th turn consistently (like Valakut).

I don't know what game you're playing.

 

[squeekenator]

You're using the wrong word. Pacing requires that the action come through in manageable levels. Having fuck all happen for four turns isn't proper pacing, its just slow.

Having a 1800 monster attack a set facedown is proper pacing, as it allows some immeditate manageable action. Keyword being action. Something must actually happen.

Pacing requires that you start off small, with little things, and gradually build up to the giant explosions and i-win effects. That's exactly what Magic does. My friend has a goblin deck that drops a creature on turn 1 every game. Stuff is happening right from the start of the game. I generally play slower control decks, and I'm still doing stuff from turn 3 onwards every game, and turn 2 onwards often. If fuck all happens before turn 4 then you simply aren't playing the game properly. But really, why are you thinking in terms of turns here? Turn 1 takes literally five seconds. Drop a land, say go, other play draws, drops a land, says go. Until stuff actually starts happening, the turns fly past in a matter of seconds. You must break your keyboard at the sight of a loading screen if you think that's a terrible game-ruining delay.

 

[Mute52]

Pokemon of course.

 

[KyoFox]

To lazy to read all replies, so if I copy someone, I'm sorry

I would recommend Magic. It is, as someone else has stated before, more tactical. With a few simple cards, and practice, you can annihilate players in a few turns.
It may take some getting used to at first, but it is not that hard. Just find a mentor

I haven't played Yugioh in a long time, and it confused the crap out of me as a kid, so I can't say much. Mostly, I think it was unnecessary to use attack and defenses that are in the thousands. That was complicated math when figuring out how much damage an attack did(again, I was way younger)

If you are gonna try Magic, I would recommend using a Forest, or green, deck. It's easier to gain life that way, great for beginners.

Also, if you wanna be cheap, go and find a "Phage the Untouchable" card. That'll probably annoy a lot of Planeswalkers (Planewalkers? What's the plural?)