Poll: Zeitgeist Movement
- Thread starter NotR
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A quick scan of Wikipedia gives me this:
They are Singularitans who want the Singularity rather sooner than later...
While I am transhumanist, their general views seem... Odd. I want the Singularity too, but I am not zealous about it and I think that the free market might be kinda okay if it is regulated by the government.
The democratic process is also okay, and instead of circumventing the people's opinion for their own good (wait, didn't already try this?) one should educate the masses!
They are Singularitans who want the Singularity rather sooner than later...
While I am transhumanist, their general views seem... Odd. I want the Singularity too, but I am not zealous about it and I think that the free market might be kinda okay if it is regulated by the government.
The democratic process is also okay, and instead of circumventing the people's opinion for their own good (wait, didn't already try this?) one should educate the masses!
I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.believer258 said:
I've heard about it and it sounds absolutely fucking stupid. I also heard the movies were absolutely terrible. Further research has backed this up.
Aye, but at the moment there is already a large amount of sheeple, slaves to either the government, a job or a debt.believer258 said:
You'd be surprised how narrow minded people are and how they allow others to make their decisions for them, even if most are made through subliminal messages.
The underlying notions of the Zeitgeist films have some degree of merit. Living as one community, sharing the planets resources responsibly, moving away from the virulent system of money. However there are some flaws and some large gaping holes in what is presented.
My biggest beef is that sure it states the obvious things "Money is bad", but offers little or no specifics on how exactly we move away from a monetary society. Constructive criticism is always welcome, criticism with no aim, or direction is well, pretty useless.
I like what it tries to say. I think this is something that kids should be shown actually. Our generations might not be able to visualize the steps needed to move toward that movement, but our children without or preconceived notions and prejudices might.
EDIT: also, I liked the original films explanation of how religions are formed and what the basis for religion is. However I cannot stand how it tries to devalidate religion as something useless and completely without merit, much like how the zealots of atheism try to convince anyone of any sort of faith.
My biggest beef is that sure it states the obvious things "Money is bad", but offers little or no specifics on how exactly we move away from a monetary society. Constructive criticism is always welcome, criticism with no aim, or direction is well, pretty useless.
I like what it tries to say. I think this is something that kids should be shown actually. Our generations might not be able to visualize the steps needed to move toward that movement, but our children without or preconceived notions and prejudices might.
EDIT: also, I liked the original films explanation of how religions are formed and what the basis for religion is. However I cannot stand how it tries to devalidate religion as something useless and completely without merit, much like how the zealots of atheism try to convince anyone of any sort of faith.
It is, in short, a group advocating a "resource based economy", which would distribute resources around the globe in cohesion with the prime nesecities of all human beings on the planet (provided the use of modern advanced technologies, the application of which are being hindered by the profit-orientated nature of human activity). This would bring about an increased level of social equality - the absence of which is seen to be the prime cause for much social distress we see in the world today, and have witnessed in the course of history (an era of privatisation, if you will). Combines a very behavioristic approach to human psychology (thus, changing human environment -> changes human psyche), critique of the ideological isolation and intellectual materialism of modern day social institutes, competitive nature of human interaction, and the realisation of the illusiveness of human distinctions. Advocates that humanity has reached the point (globalization/technologies/understandings) where many elements of our current system have completely lost their relevance. A very brief overview.
Furthermore, as one can transpire from the nature of the questions within the poll my aim is not to spark some huge ideological debate.
Furthermore, as one can transpire from the nature of the questions within the poll my aim is not to spark some huge ideological debate.
The conspiracies and ideals where both too romanticized. The ideals are just too big and will, most likely, eventually happen by their own pace. Conspiracies suffered from the same romanticing as some other conspiracy theories.
Personally I liked the Bible = calender part.
Personally I liked the Bible = calender part.
Yeah I think it presents an important notion we have to manage the planet better, but thing of it is that we can accomplish that without having to resort to socialism simply by reducing the global population back to a more sustainable level. Having less demand on the same amount of finite resources would have a much more positive effect than trying to eradicate the nature of greed within humanity.NotR said:
Exhibit A being the people who believe this or any version of this.TheIronRuler said:
If these "sheeple" are so common, why do I never meet any of them? I do meet people who aren't particularly interested in certain intellectual issues (and even then, they have been known to surprise me), but that doesn't make them sheep. I'm not in a position to critically examine the merits of seventeen different types of lawnmower or insurance plan, because I don't give a crap about lawnmowers or insurance plans.
The only people I've ever met who actually approach "sheeple" status are the so-called intellectual elites who have become incapable of critically examining their own ideas even after repeated failures. Instead, they go around complaining that everyone else is too dumb, illiterate, or simple-minded to put their OBVIOUSLY perfect ideas into practice.
I believe what you meant to say was it would be easier to do so.viranimus said:
"Greed" is essentially the continuous increase of the human sense of need, or the continued persistence of it. The sense of need is in deep correlation with the sense of conflict an individual has with the environment (example: I want an apple. I am without an apple within the environment in which i perceive myself to exist. My perceived identity within the environment is in conflict with the environment). On the other hand, one who is in harmony with the environment can be identified as the one who has no need (or has it satisfied). One of the neglected conflicts of the identity is the need of an identity to feel "validated" by the environment. The identity inherits certain elements of distinction and functions within the environment and can see itself within the environment only by recognizing these elements. Otherwise, the identity does not "exist" (or is "unperceiveable"). It is a common existential crisis of the mind. Hence, the needs are dependant on the distinctive elements and functions within the environment. Here it becomes only a question of ability (or technology) to change the environment.
I should practice my writing abilities since it seems that I transmit cynicism through the internet rather poorly.JMeganSnow said:
I should have written "Sheeple" with quotation marks so that I would be obvious. I apologize for my poor ability to transmit emotions via the internet.
Adios.
I will not debate the ideas of the Zeitgeist Movement, but I will happily answer any questions anyone has about those ideas. They are, after all, just ideas. A basic of the Movement is 'Do No Harm' and no coercion can be part of the implementation of the ideas. Inotherwords, people will want to do them, en mass, or they won't happen. The majority of the half million members of the Movement are new to the ideas and are in the process of learning about them, so there are a wide variation in the opinions of those members, but the basic ideas are not meant to be any kind of fixed dogma, they are simply the emergent social ideas originating from the growth of scientific discovery, which is something that has accelerated to an unimaginable degree over the last few decades.
Social agreements produce a cultural 'common sense' that changes over time, and we simply want to produce a more sensible 'common sense' than wars, 30,000 people starving to death each day in a world of plenty of food, and all the other stupidity that seems so embedded in our current society. And, of course, we want to eliminate the coercion of this existing system, which produces most of our cultural problems, much of which is becoming viewed as 'human nature' when there seems to be no fixed 'human nature' according to science. We seem to be seeing the symptoms as causes of our problems and ignoring the actual causes of most of our social problems. With the ecology, a truly fixed constant, based on land and resources, dying at an accelerating rate, according to science, we feel that is not sustainable and so we need to think differently to survive our past social insanity.
So ask, and if I can answer, I will.
Social agreements produce a cultural 'common sense' that changes over time, and we simply want to produce a more sensible 'common sense' than wars, 30,000 people starving to death each day in a world of plenty of food, and all the other stupidity that seems so embedded in our current society. And, of course, we want to eliminate the coercion of this existing system, which produces most of our cultural problems, much of which is becoming viewed as 'human nature' when there seems to be no fixed 'human nature' according to science. We seem to be seeing the symptoms as causes of our problems and ignoring the actual causes of most of our social problems. With the ecology, a truly fixed constant, based on land and resources, dying at an accelerating rate, according to science, we feel that is not sustainable and so we need to think differently to survive our past social insanity.
So ask, and if I can answer, I will.
lol how about these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QTX46XNLM#t=1m17s ?JMeganSnow said:
"They get fed this stuff, and they regurgitate it, and they don't even think about it."
and here's some just plain dumb people for teh lulz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
I found it to be one of the strangest bait and switch groups I've ever seen. They spent most of their time talking about the major institutions that govern our life, and how they fail spectacularly at doing so. A lot of information was dead wrong, but the overall idea that religion, government, and the financial sectors are making grave mistakes that we need to correct (with a few sound given examples) was quite nice. Then somewhere in the first addendum they bring up this new way of life that is WORSE than the systems they just spent all of that time meticulously derailing. Why spend so much time demonizing the Federal Reserve and their system of faith in currency through the current global trading scheme as opposed to basing them on hard currency if your ultimate goal is to have us subscribe to a school of thinking where money is irrelevant? Absolutely asinine. I also really hate how the Venus Project basically devalues hard work, saying it keeps us from intellectual pursuits. Most people value their hard work, especially if it reaps visible rewards. It gives a feeling of satisfaction and fulfillment.
In short, I was damn near ready to join the movement when addendum came out until I saw the second half of it. Technological wonders are great and all, but their idealistic society is even more restrictive than the current one.
In short, I was damn near ready to join the movement when addendum came out until I saw the second half of it. Technological wonders are great and all, but their idealistic society is even more restrictive than the current one.