Poll: Zeitgeist Movement

[Antari]

Zietgiest is just the name of the movies that have been given. The basis of the ideas is the Venus Project. Its an interesting idea on how it would be nice to create a resource based economy, but there's not alot of ideas on how to actually go about doing it in a realistic way.

 

[WeedWorm]

What the fuck is the Zeitgeish Movement?

Same question; I glanced at this on Wikipedia and it seemed to be a bunch of funky words that really explained nothing to me. What, in simple outsider's terms, the hell is this?

I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.

...
...
Fuck that. I make my own decisions, damn it, and I'll take every consequence that comes with it. Because if we let machines control everything, then what satisfaction can we have? We'd become mindless animalistic drones, able to do nothing more than sheep.

At least that's my initial reaction. Upon further investigation it may change but if machines controlling us is the idea, then it's, plain and simple, fucking stupid.

It isint letting machines do the thinking for us, its letting machines do all the work while we do whatever the fuck we want.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I saw the first third of the first movie (the part about religion.) They got everything so terribly wrong -- as in, filled with outright lies that they were hoping the target audience wouldn't catch, being apparently made up of atheists who know nothing of Christine doctrine, Egyptian mythology, Buddhism, the bible, or basically anything at all to do with world religion. It was so pathetically filled with outright untruths that, in my eyes, it disqualified absolutely everything they had to say after it.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.

Oh, I thought it was to do with the Twin Towers conspiracy theory, whoops, I got my crazies mixed up. Interestingly I've seen little hand written stickers all over the university campus area in Belfast posted on lamp posts and trees and things that just say "watch Zeitgiest" So at least one person in Northern Ireland follows the belief.

 

[GoreTuzk]

I find it funny how easily people say it's "absolutely fucking stupid" when the aim of these films is to wake people up for the need of a more sustainable and humane society through the application of the scientific method for social concern. It has nothing to do with robots controlling anything as it's fundamentally against any type of control and stratification.

Basically what I mean is that it doesn't claim to have the answer to fix the world, and it doesn't require you to believe in anything you can't test for yourself through experience or at least conceive intellectually. The question here is simply transcending ideology, people are habituated to think through ideological perspectives like capitalism, socialism, etc. that were cleverly devised to serve the needs and wants of some while neglecting the rest; with the Venus Project we can start to get a sketch of what a holistic approach to social coherence could do for us, and, for me at least, what makes it so obvious that this is approximately the right path, is the fact that the designs, systems and technologies are completely based upon natural processes that billions of years of evolution have shaped in organisms and ecosystems.

Oh, I thought it was to do with the Twin Towers conspiracy theory, whoops, I got my crazies mixed up. Interestingly I've seen little hand written stickers all over the university campus area in Belfast posted on lamp posts and trees and things that just say "watch Zeitgiest" So at least one person in Northern Ireland follows the belief.

That's actually how I got to know the movies, someone did sort of the same here in Portugal, the difference is they used graffiti instead.

 

[Pendrokar]

Hi,
I will also try to clarify a few things before things get derailed and overestimated.

I've heard of those movies. And I've also heard that they're pretty much bullshit. The bit that I saw made me think so too.

Heard of it as the brunt of many a joke. Not much else.

I've heard about it and it sounds absolutely fucking stupid. I also heard the movies were absolutely terrible. Further research has backed this up.

Ah, yes. I would say their ideas are disgusting and very dangerous but thankfully nobody takes them seriously so it's not worth the trouble.

They stink of poo-poo


and lots of it...

Please provide more feedback. Comments like these don't even give an overview to those who hear about the movement for the first time.
Although this negative view might have come from people that had watched the first movie, heavily disliked it, and so ignored the other two, which are totally different.

---

I read a page on TvTropes that mentions that movie. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DocumentaryOfLies]

The conspiracies and ideals where both too romanticized. The ideals are just too big and will, most likely, eventually happen by their own pace. Conspiracies suffered from the same romanticing as some other conspiracy theories.

Personally I liked the Bible = calender part.

I saw the first third of the first movie (the part about religion.) They got everything so terribly wrong -- as in, filled with outright lies that they were hoping the target audience wouldn't catch, being apparently made up of atheists who know nothing of Christine doctrine, Egyptian mythology, Buddhism, the bible, or basically anything at all to do with world religion. It was so pathetically filled with outright untruths that, in my eyes, it disqualified absolutely everything they had to say after it.

The Zeitgeist Movement was founded right after the release of Zeitgeist: Addendum. The last two movies are not meant as a precise explanation of what the movement is. Orientation video guide of TZM is much more relevant [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ngs-tOybJc&feature=channel_video_title]. PDF document even more [http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/The%20Zeitgeist%20Movement.pdf].
The first movie has no connections to the Movement. Sure some people jump on Global TZM forums shouting about conspiracies and so on. But actions like that don't change anything. The first movie was all about complaining about the problems in the world without a solution. Although claiming that it is a pack of lies dreamed up by the creator of the movies is nonsense. Sources are listed on the website of those movies.

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They are Singularitans who want the Singularity rather sooner than later...

While I am transhumanist, their general views seem... Odd. I want the Singularity too, but I am not zealous about it...

At no point have I encountered anything about needed Singularity to go on. From my perspective meaning having a creative AI that would do the necessary research to create what a individual wants. Such as Faster-Than Light travel.
The possibility of creating a Resource Based Economy only became viable in early 20th century. How effective it would be back then is a different matter.

...and I think that the free market might be kinda okay if it is regulated by the government.

Like how it is now? Some lobby for new laws to make a competitor weaker and people will always find ways to circumvent laws.
No doubt a unregulated free market would be even worse. But you can't stay in middle of regulations forever...

The democratic process is also okay, and instead of circumventing the people's opinion for their own good (wait, didn't already try this?

Why can I vote on things I do not understand?

---

My biggest beef is that sure it states the obvious things "Money is bad", but offers little or no specifics on how exactly we move away from a monetary society. Constructive criticism is always welcome, criticism with no aim, or direction is well, pretty useless.

True, but there are suggestions given. Such as going from the bottom up. Switching Minimum wage with basic income, which still wouldn't give you comfort, maybe not even electricity. Also applying automation to life necessarily goods, decreasing their value and thus the basic income.
All in all making goods so cheap that money is not required for them. Services though are a different matter.

That is all for now.

 

[Zacharine]

Have watched all their films.

Laughed all the way, except until I started crying that some people actually are misinformed enough to believe the BS.

Classical conspiracy nuts, along with people with their heads on the clouds.

Take money for example. It is an instrument of trade, meant to facilitate easy valuing of goods and services in relation to one another in an accesible way. Instead of having to carry your entire fortune with you and check exactly how many kilos of fresh grain and litres of milk a new pocketwatch is worth, we use money to indicate the value of all three. If money didn't exist, we'd have to invent it like we've done on at least 5 different, unconnected times and locations in ancient history.

Going 'back' to gold standard wouldn't help any - instead of simply having a piece of paper, you'd have a gold coin and instead of international exchange rates as well as variation in prices of goods, you'd have international exchange rate and variation in the price of gold - except you'd also have all the problems connected with metal-based monetary system in additiuon to the problems in the fiat system.

And yet, money is supposedly intrinsically 'bad' according to Zeitgeist and all our problems would be solved by abolishing it and exchanging resources directly.

Also, their religious history sucks badly and they've apparently never heard of correletaion not equalling causation. Their explanation for christianity is plain nuts and the connection with older sun-based religions circumstancial at best. You almost get better information from creationwiki - and I'm saying this as an atheist.

Honestly, supposed 'controversy' is the only reason anyone is talking about this piece of crap.

 

[Nimcha]

I like how many new posters this thread has attracted. I bet they all came from the same place on the web.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.

*chuckles*
So, it's ending 3 of Deus Ex?
It sounds like it would be great for a laugh.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

snip

No, see it was nothing but lies. The whole God's Son/God's Sun thing only works in English, Horace was not the god of the Sun (he was the god of the sky, Ra was the god of the sun), he did not have 12 disciples, he was not born on December 25th, and he was not crucified. Buddha also did not have 12 disciples. For that matter, Jesus was not born on December 25th -- the date of the holiday was changed centuries after the fact in order to bring in some more converts by changing the meaning of an existing pagan holiday. The list goes on -- that video was spun out of wholecloth, and if you can't see it, you need to do some research of your own into world religions.

Oh, and from what I've heard about his sources? Known conspiracy theorists. Citations are only reliable if the sources picked are reliable. Anyone with even a basic understanding of ancient mythology could tell you just how wrong that section of the video is.

 

[SilentCom]

I've heard of it because it was mentioned in one of my classes. I think we may have seen a portion of a film during the time.

 

[Nimcha]

I like how many new posters this thread has attracted. I bet they all came from the same place on the web.

I was just thinking the same thing. It seems terribly suspicious.

It almost seems like a *gasp* conspiracy!

 

[JMeganSnow]

Aye, but at the moment there is already a large amount of sheeple, slaves to either the government, a job or a debt.
You'd be surprised how narrow minded people are and how they allow others to make their decisions for them, even if most are made through subliminal messages.

Exhibit A being the people who believe this or any version of this.

If these "sheeple" are so common, why do I never meet any of them?

lol how about these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27QTX46XNLM#t=1m17s ?
"They get fed this stuff, and they regurgitate it, and they don't even think about it."

and here's some just plain dumb people for teh lulz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

Dumb is not the same as sheep. I have yet to meet ANYONE who has never, ever done or said anything massively stupid in their lives. Catch it on tape and it becomes confirmation bias.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

What the fuck is the Zeitgeish Movement?

Same question; I glanced at this on Wikipedia and it seemed to be a bunch of funky words that really explained nothing to me. What, in simple outsider's terms, the hell is this?

I think it has something to do with basically letting machines control our lives and us living comfortably without the need to make any decisions, like the apple executive said a few days ago.

...
...
Fuck that. I make my own decisions, damn it, and I'll take every consequence that comes with it. Because if we let machines control everything, then what satisfaction can we have? We'd become mindless animalistic drones, able to do nothing more than sheep.

At least that's my initial reaction. Upon further investigation it may change but if machines controlling us is the idea, then it's, plain and simple, fucking stupid.

Couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Pendrokar]

No, see it was nothing but lies.

I really don't want to discuss anything about the first movie because it has no relation to the movement. I will only point to responses of said issues:

The whole God's Son/God's Sun thing only works in English

As if she was trying to imply that: "PLAY ON WORDS" [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4835#p4835]

, Horace was not the god of the Sun (he was the god of the sky, Ra was the god of the sun),

"proof by works of highly credentialed authorities" [http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/378-horus-is-the-sun-god ]

he did not have 12 disciples,

Buddha also did not have 12 disciples.

he was not born on December 25th, and he was not crucified.

For that matter, Jesus was not born on December 25th -- the date of the holiday was changed centuries after the fact in order to bring in some more converts by changing the meaning of an existing pagan holiday. The list goes on -- that video was spun out of wholecloth, and if you can't see it, you need to do some research of your own into world religions.

These and more are responded in great lengths at this thread. [http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2609]

Oh, and from what I've heard about his sources? Known conspiracy theorists. Citations are only reliable if the sources picked are reliable. Anyone with even a basic understanding of ancient mythology could tell you just how wrong that section of the video is.

ZEITGEIST Part 1 & The Supportive Evidence [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2997]
She is a Egyptologist, not a librarian [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2640]
So these reviews about her books don't exist? [http://www.truthbeknown.com/index.html]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/Zeitgeist,%20The%20Movie-%20Companion%20Guide%20PDF.pdf

Since I am not a Egyptologist. Please respond at their forum, unless you view it as enemy territory.

---

Also it is often claimed that because the first part of the first movie is somehow anti-religious, then the movement is anti-religious. The whole fiasco was about authority over religion, not religion itself.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

No, see it was nothing but lies.

I really don't want to discuss anything about the first movie because it has no relation to the movement. I will only point to responses of said issues:

The whole God's Son/God's Sun thing only works in English

As if she was trying to imply that: "PLAY ON WORDS" [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4835#p4835]

, Horace was not the god of the Sun (he was the god of the sky, Ra was the god of the sun),

"proof by works of highly credentialed authorities" [http://freethoughtnation.com/contributing-writers/63-acharya-s/378-horus-is-the-sun-god ]

he did not have 12 disciples,

Buddha also did not have 12 disciples.

he was not born on December 25th, and he was not crucified.

For that matter, Jesus was not born on December 25th -- the date of the holiday was changed centuries after the fact in order to bring in some more converts by changing the meaning of an existing pagan holiday. The list goes on -- that video was spun out of wholecloth, and if you can't see it, you need to do some research of your own into world religions.

These and more are responded in great lengths at this thread. [http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2609]

Oh, and from what I've heard about his sources? Known conspiracy theorists. Citations are only reliable if the sources picked are reliable. Anyone with even a basic understanding of ancient mythology could tell you just how wrong that section of the video is.

ZEITGEIST Part 1 & The Supportive Evidence [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2997]
She is a Egyptologist, not a librarian [http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2640]
So these reviews about her books don't exist? [http://www.truthbeknown.com/index.html]

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/Zeitgeist,%20The%20Movie-%20Companion%20Guide%20PDF.pdf

Since I am not a Egyptologist. Please respond at their forum, unless you view it as enemy territory.

---

Also it is often claimed that because the first part of the first movie is somehow anti-religious, then the movement is anti-religious. The whole fiasco was about authority over religion, not religion itself.

I'm going to quit arguing here, because you're one of the brainwashed "true believer" types, which I have had the sad misfortune of running into in the real world. But I'd like to point out that your citation is a forum post which makes no citations. Real reliable, there.

Edit: Also, you must not have watched the version of the movie that I did, because there was no play on words going on with the God's Son/God's Sun thing; they were literally saying that one led to the other.

 

[Axzarious]

I've heard of it. Some ideas are good, however they are grossly misinformed about others, or grossly misrepresent facts. In theory, its good, however humanities nature, and the general things they fail to grasp, such as basic economics convince me that they are doomed to fail.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Found this on another forum:

You figure somebody had to come up with one. Might as well be me!

Rules: browse TZM forums, official website, blogs/websites of supporters, or YouTube channels of TZM members or supporters.

Sip once when any of the following occur:

- A Zeitgeister praises Peter Joseph.
- A Zeitgeister bashes Jacque Fresco or says they're "disappointed" in Fresco's criticism.
- A Zeitgeister brownnoses a moderator, VTV or some other leader of the group other than PJ.
- The words "sustainable" or "sustainability" are misused.
- "Trolls" are referred to.
- CS or a regular of CS is bashed.
- The term "systems approach" is used.
- A Zeitgeister makes a reference to a conspiracy theory.
- A Zeitgeister either professes agnosticism about 9/11 or says that 9/11 "doesn't matter" or "isn't relevant."
- Someone repeats the claim that Douglas Mallette used to work for NASA.
- "Zeitgeist opened my eyes" or "Zeitgeist woke me up" or some other revelation-like epiphany is referred to.
- A Zeitgeister refers to "scientific method" without actually using it.
- A Zeitgeister rants about the money system.
- The schism is referred to as imaginary, overblown, no big deal, or the person referring to it professes not to be bothered by it.
- A Zeitgeister claims that 9/11 was an inside job.
- A Zeitgeister misuses or misunderstands the term "ad hominem."
- A Zeitgeister suggests a spamming campaign (Oprah, Colbert forums, HuffPo, etc.)
- "We have no leaders."
- "We're not about conspiracy theories."
- "Conspiracy theories detract from our message."
- Someone argues with someone who said "conspiracy theories detract from our message."
- "The movies aren't the movement."

Drink twice at any of the following:

- "____" (other than the movies) "aren't the movement."
- A Zeitgeister criticizes a moderator.
- A Zeitgeister asks for help in responding to a criticism raised by CS or other critics.
- Acharya S. is referred to directly.
- A Zeitgeister unwittingly uses Scientology acronyms or jargon, like "Comm" or "org."
- The schism is blamed directly on "trolls."
- A Zeitgeister is banned for denying or criticizing conspiracy theories.

Chug entire beverage:

- A Zeitgeister openly advocates violence, terrorism or criminal activity to advance the movement or an RBE.
- A Zeitgeister directly asserts belief in HAARP, chemtrails, Holocaust denial or other woo beyond the conspiracy theories raised by the movies.
- The word "Merola" appears on TZM forum or any pro-TZM-generated material.
- A Zeitgeister obliquely admits something the movement officially denies (that the movies aren't the movement, that there are no leaders, etc).

Add your own!

Dang man, if only I had had some alcohol on that bus trip where some zeitgeister managed to get the DVD on for the first third of the movie. He actually started it out with "this movie will change your life," even though the few who knew about it were saying "no, put on V for Vendetta instead" and everyone else started saying to put V on after they realized what the movie was about, and just how wrong it was.

 

[Pendrokar]

Now this thread has the Movement mostly equaled to the first Zeitgeist Movie, with any opinion posted by a random individual on the main global forum as a representation of the movement.

Also, you must not have watched the version of the movie that I did, because there was no play on words going on with the God's Son/God's Sun thing; they were literally saying that one led to the other.

If I remember correctly the only sentence on it was "The son of god is in fact the sun of god.". So you're exaggerating.
Don't take this as an ad hominem, but since you post 7 posts a day on this forum alone means you don't look deeply enough.

Found this on another forum:...
- CS or a regular of CS is bashed.
- A Zeitgeister asks for help in responding to a criticism raised by CS or other critics.

I don't even need to ask from where.
"...D.M. Murdock/Acharya S, like all authors on controversial subjects, has many critics. But they all share one commonality: They don't know what they're talking about. Murdock understands many languages and has a breadth of knowledge her critics cannot match. This fact irks the uninformed. Having given a fair hearing to some of her online detractors and their "rebuttal" videos, I have detected not only a lack of knowledge on the part of her critics, but also, in some cases, a thinly disguised misogyny...."

- David Mills
Author of "Atheist Universe"

---

Lastly define Zeitgeister, from your point of view. Since members are only those who are active in real life. Just posting on some forums doesn't make anyone a representative. Unless they are a coordinator of regional chapter.

 

[Mavinchious Maximus]

Aye, but at the moment there is already a large amount of sheeple, slaves to either the government, a job or a debt.
You'd be surprised how narrow minded people are and how they allow others to make their decisions for them, even if most are made through subliminal messages.

Exhibit A being the people who believe this or any version of this.

If these "sheeple" are so common, why do I never meet any of them? I do meet people who aren't particularly interested in certain intellectual issues (and even then, they have been known to surprise me), but that doesn't make them sheep. I'm not in a position to critically examine the merits of seventeen different types of lawnmower or insurance plan, because I don't give a crap about lawnmowers or insurance plans.

The only people I've ever met who actually approach "sheeple" status are the so-called intellectual elites who have become incapable of critically examining their own ideas even after repeated failures. Instead, they go around complaining that everyone else is too dumb, illiterate, or simple-minded to put their OBVIOUSLY perfect ideas into practice.

You sir deserve a cookie.

I think this movement is really stupid and will never work, at least as long as im kicking.