Goddamnit, I came in here just to post that.infohippie said:So... They're saying Fallout players are a bunch of wankers?
Absolutely not. I'm saying that if you have two... aspects, let's call them aspects (as neither facility revenue nor number of bedsheet deaths can be called "events") that occur in rapid succession or bear the same results, this suggests (however tentatively and/or briefly) that there is a connection. It's not proof of one, it's not even evidence of one, but it is a suggestion.Yopaz said:The revenue from skiing facilities in USA and number of people who died from being tangled in bedsheets is 0.97 (perfect correlation would be 1.00). Are you saying one causes the other?Recusant said:This is the third time I've heard this in the past four days, and I'm starting to wonder if it's all some elaborate joke. Assuming it's not, let me state (not merely to Mister Sklar, but to everyone) unequivocally, now and forever, that correlation DOES imply causation, wholly and absolutely. If you touch the oven and burn your hand, that's a pretty strong implication that the oven is turned on. This might not be the case; the oven could be on fire, or it could have spontaneously turned into a portal to the furnace, or you could be suffering from unusually specific brain damage, but most likely, the oven's on, and the vastly higher likelihood of that first scenario relative to the other three means that the evidence pretty strongly points in that direction. What correlation does not is equal causation; burning your hand on the over does not prove that it is on, but it certainly does suggest it, which is all that "imply" really means.PatrickJS said:Now, it's important to remember that correlation does not always imply causation.
For the sake of the future generations you do not wish to have travel back to today and kill you for your dictionary crimes, don't let "imply" become another "literally".
As to the news itself: does Fallout 4 not have a pause function?
Likewise. Catch is, I'm completely right- though perhaps phrasing my point poorly. This is not a question (at least on my part) of the scientific method, or indeed of the fundamental nature of reality, but of semantics. "Equals" and "implies" are different words that mean different things. Moving from "correlation implies causation" to "correlation equals causation" is simplifying it ideologically, but not verbally; again, different words that mean different things. If you're looking for concrete proof of a link between two things and start from simple correlative grounds, the sheer number of seemingly random similarities will get you few positive results; I do not for an instant dispute this. Correlation does not equal causation. However, if you reverse the process and look for a correlation in aspects that cause other aspects, you will find a correlation rate of 100% (though not necessarily one that reveals itself with only a casual glance); aspects affect the things they effect. Or, to put it more succinctly, correlation implies causation.Yopaz said:The word you're missing here is "always". Correlation is a good point to start when investigating a phenomenon, but it's far from the best. Alzheimer's disease is characterized by the accumulation of something called amyloid plaques in the brain and worse cases have shown a correlation with more plaque. Years of research (and probably billions) has gone into finding drugs that would reduce the amount of plaque. Recent discoveries indicate that amyloid plaque does not cause Alzheimer's disease and the drugs we've spent money and resources developing only treats a symptom. Correlation does not always imply causation. This is the danger of simplifying it to correlation = causation.
I can find countless of examples like this. If you want to correct someone, make sure that you're not far far far far FAR from being right.
Turning on the LHC and experiencing more earthquakes wouldn't suggest that we could predict them; it would suggest that turning on the LHC causes them. Sorry, but I'm right.008Zulu said:When they turned on the LHC, we started experience more earthquakes. That would suggest we can predict earthquakes, which we can't. Sorry, but you're wrong.Recusant said:unequivocally, now and forever, that correlation DOES imply causation, wholly and absolutely.
If you go back and read the part you quoted he said it doesn't ALWAYS imply causation. Revenue from skiing facilities and deaths by bedsheets... does it imply causation or does it seem completely random? If it does, explain how it implies causation because if you are right and the article is wrong it ALWAYS implies causation.Recusant said:Absolutely not. I'm saying that if you have two... aspects, let's call them aspects (as neither facility revenue nor number of bedsheet deaths can be called "events") that occur in rapid succession or bear the same results, this suggests (however tentatively and/or briefly) that there is a connection. It's not proof of one, it's not even evidence of one, but it is a suggestion.Yopaz said:The revenue from skiing facilities in USA and number of people who died from being tangled in bedsheets is 0.97 (perfect correlation would be 1.00). Are you saying one causes the other?Recusant said:This is the third time I've heard this in the past four days, and I'm starting to wonder if it's all some elaborate joke. Assuming it's not, let me state (not merely to Mister Sklar, but to everyone) unequivocally, now and forever, that correlation DOES imply causation, wholly and absolutely. If you touch the oven and burn your hand, that's a pretty strong implication that the oven is turned on. This might not be the case; the oven could be on fire, or it could have spontaneously turned into a portal to the furnace, or you could be suffering from unusually specific brain damage, but most likely, the oven's on, and the vastly higher likelihood of that first scenario relative to the other three means that the evidence pretty strongly points in that direction. What correlation does not is equal causation; burning your hand on the over does not prove that it is on, but it certainly does suggest it, which is all that "imply" really means.PatrickJS said:Now, it's important to remember that correlation does not always imply causation.
For the sake of the future generations you do not wish to have travel back to today and kill you for your dictionary crimes, don't let "imply" become another "literally".
As to the news itself: does Fallout 4 not have a pause function?
Likewise. Catch is, I'm completely right- though perhaps phrasing my point poorly. This is not a question (at least on my part) of the scientific method, or indeed of the fundamental nature of reality, but of semantics. "Equals" and "implies" are different words that mean different things. Moving from "correlation implies causation" to "correlation equals causation" is simplifying it ideologically, but not verbally; again, different words that mean different things. If you're looking for concrete proof of a link between two things and start from simple correlative grounds, the sheer number of seemingly random similarities will get you few positive results; I do not for an instant dispute this. Correlation does not equal causation. However, if you reverse the process and look for a correlation in aspects that cause other aspects, you will find a correlation rate of 100% (though not necessarily one that reveals itself with only a casual glance); aspects affect the things they effect. Or, to put it more succinctly, correlation implies causation.Yopaz said:The word you're missing here is "always". Correlation is a good point to start when investigating a phenomenon, but it's far from the best. Alzheimer's disease is characterized by the accumulation of something called amyloid plaques in the brain and worse cases have shown a correlation with more plaque. Years of research (and probably billions) has gone into finding drugs that would reduce the amount of plaque. Recent discoveries indicate that amyloid plaque does not cause Alzheimer's disease and the drugs we've spent money and resources developing only treats a symptom. Correlation does not always imply causation. This is the danger of simplifying it to correlation = causation.
I can find countless of examples like this. If you want to correct someone, make sure that you're not far far far far FAR from being right.
Actually you have this slightly backwards. The phrase "correlation does not imply causation" is an old one grounded in statistics where the word "imply" has the meaning "to involve as a necessary circumstance" Removing that meaning of the word imply would be a corruption of language.Recusant said:For the sake of the future generations you do not wish to have travel back to today and kill you for your dictionary crimes, don't let "imply" become another "literally".
You do know we experienced earthquakes before the LHC was turned on yeah?Recusant said:Turning on the LHC and experiencing more earthquakes wouldn't suggest that we could predict them; it would suggest that turning on the LHC causes them. Sorry, but I'm right.
Okay Mr. Four Minutes. No need to brag.Elfgore said:I'd say I'm part of the statistic, butt I've done it since Fallout came out and I don't go to Pornhub. Cause you know, I like my videos to be longer than three minutes.
Elfgore said:I like my videos to be longer than three minutes.
Back in my day all we had were dirty magazines. AND WE LIKED IT.!Elfgore said:I'd say I'm part of the statistic, butt I've done it since Fallout came out and I don't go to Pornhub. Cause you know, I like my videos to be longer than three minutes.
Marriage and kids will do that.FalloutJack said:Apparently, war never changes...but our libido does!
Please tell me that was a typo.Lufia Erim said:Back in my dad all we had were dirty magazines. AND WE LIKED IT.!Elfgore said:I'd say I'm part of the statistic, butt I've done it since Fallout came out and I don't go to Pornhub. Cause you know, I like my videos to be longer than three minutes.