1) Shenmue Integrated it into the gameplay pretty damn well. Some of the fight scenes were done through this and actually felt quite tactile.
2) Die Hard Arcade Between sections you'd be running along a corridor and one would flash up. These were well lead so it wasn't a surprise and you got a satisfying run past attack on some mook. If you failed you had to fight them. Added a lovely bit of tension to it.
I think the finest example of how not to do it when it comes to QTEs is in Uncharted.
The prime example works best as a contrast.
Early on in the game you are getting intrepid jumping across a set of stone pillars when one starts collapsing under you. Drake remains under your control at all times, all of your other controls work normally, and you have to time your jump properly to jump across to the next pillar before plunging into the abyss.
Later, you are running along the outside of the customs house when a ledge starts collapsing under you. But this time, it's handled as a QTE, you are not in control of Drake, none of your other controls respond, you have to literally press X to not die. Press anything else and you die.
There's no contextual difference between the two events, you are on a collapsing platform and have to jump to the next one, but there's a mechanical difference, one is an open mechanic where the player is in control. This is good, the other is a closed mechanic where the player is not in control, this is bad.
If you think about it, the old arcade games of Space Ace and Dragon's Lair were games that were nothing but a string of QTE's, and people played those those games to death.
In the modern gaming era, there was a non-movie movie game The Borne Identity which featured a lot of QTE, but it didn't end the action, it just drew out the fight scenes.
At the moment, QTEs are not very interactive. All the QTEs I have played involve pressing one button in a very small window of time which has only one outcome in the game.
Why don't developers try to force the player to make more tactical decision in a QTE instead?
For example, the QTEs in a game might try to make you decide whether to stand and fight or take evasive action. This decision can be based on your environments or the number of enemies trying to gut you at that time.
Or, you can make the player press different buttons to decide which weapon to use in order to kill an enemy, rather than simply pressing one button to fire one weapon.
You can imagine the scene. You are being chased by a giant crab monster (what else?!) when the QTE tells you to fire a weapon. Do you press up to use the shotgun (maybe it isn't close enough in this QTE), left to use the pistol (will it penetrate the armour) or left to use the RPG (are you to close to the crab to use it?).
A scenario like this would be awesome! Any other suggestions like these?
Quick Time Events feel to me like Gaming For Idiots.
Let's use an example; Metal Gear Online (yes, I know I use it WAAAY too much!). I want to knock someone out. So, what do I do?
First, I get close. Then I press and hold R1. Now, I release R1 and quickly hold Down on the left stick whilst pressing and holding R1 again. If done in the correct time window, I will body-slam my victim to the ground (or if crouched, put them in a sleeper hold).
Imagine now if this was a Quick-Time-Event. First, a big "R1" button flashes up. If you don't press at the right time, the enemy doesn't get grappled. Then you have to press down and R1 at the same time when announced, otherwise you can't initiate the special hold (and the enemy might get away).
Mechanically, I don't see a lot of difference between "natural" and "quick-time" choke holding for MGO. However, I do see the difference in perception; player would most likely be annoyed at the presence of the QTE, because it breaks flow. One of the key points of natural play is you feel in control; if I don't want the fancy moves, I don't attempt them. However, if you 'ignore' a QTE you are usually penalised (typically, by death).
Now there is a time and a place for prompting. MGO usually prompts you when you are close enough to an object to interact (ie: walk into a wall and you get an image that means "Press Triangle to Hug The Wall"). These appear in the above choking example (either an SOP plug, or a throat-slit, depending on whether those skills are equipped). However, these are again optional; you don't have a split-second window where you either slit the guy's throat, or he grabs your knife and uses it to gouge out your eyes. So long as he is grappled, you have the option. The "alert" is just so you don't forget you can do it.
So, in summary, the best way to use a QTE is, in fact, to hide the fact it's a QTE. You could make a QTE on LittleBigPlanet by having an Emitter fire lightning-charged bars at people, and they have to jump on the spot to avoid them until the trap collapses. That would literally be a "Press X To Not Die" encounter, but because it uses the standard mechanics, rather than having a big X appear on the screen, it feels less invasive.
TBF, Dragon's Lair and Space Ace were there as Interactive Movies, rather than actual games. You ploughed your coins in for the audience to watch rather than to play a game.
I know that you already linked to the Robot Chicken video. I thought it was relevant based on my view of the Parappa game as one huge q.t.e. (or interactive movie, based on your description). I thought I was honoring / complementing you by referencing it also. Maybe I should have linked directly to the thread, or maybe next time I can leave a more worthy offering at your profile shrine. I will simply beg your majesty's forgiveness and try to be a better disciple in the future...
Usually, I have no problem with QTEs. Putting them in Wii games, however (Force Unleashed and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, I'm looking at YOU) is a bad idea.
God of War did it perfectly, you never felt cheated out of a win, the only real tricky one is the very last moment of god of war 2, but it's ok cos the wonderfully violent cutscene you get as a reward is worth the few goes!
the QTE of repeatedly smashing theseus's head in the door was also very satifying
I basically detest them. The QTEs in RE4 drove me nuts because they always happened during cinematics and I'd stopped paying that much attention, so I'd die the first time they happened, reload, and watch the stupid cinematic again.
Yeah, but Dark Cloud was more "It comes from stage right, when it hits the center box, press that button. Sort of like a QTE, but it gives you a heads up, unlike the games where it just suddenly appears, saying "hit this button or die".
The Bourne Conspiracy. That's a game that did QTEs well. While I only played the demo, they were well integrated part of the game, with a reasonable amount of time to hit them (I never failed one), and by well integrated I mean they're used everywhere. Boss fights, regular enemies, cutscenes, riding down a zipline, special moves, fucking everywhere.
For instance, when fighting multiple enemies, you can only attack one enemy at a time. Yes, you can punch guy A and then guy B, but it's far more effecient to hit guy A with a combo, then guy B, etc. However, guy B can attack you while you're going after guy A. However, rather than just let Guy B get a cheap shot, you get to do a QTE and you'll counter his attack and hit Guy B and Guy A, typically, into each other. Like wise, as you perform combos, you fill up a meter, every time it hits a certain level, you can use a special attack, which lets you use a QTE to insta-kill a normal enemy, or severely harm a boss enemy.
Okay, so this is an odd thing that's been bugging me way back in my head for a while now and I think I'd like to speak my mind about it. Yes, I'm about to lob an opinion at you people. Please don't hurt me. I'd just like some honest feedback here (namely, your opinions), on this thought of mine.
Every time I hear about quicktime events from Yahtzee (the "Press X Not To Die" stuff), I get a laugh, naturally, but there was one review in which he actually put forth the question about whether they have ever been a good idea. It's a fairly simple answer, really. A decided NO. But the curious thing about it is that I can actually think of a game - a decent game, even - in which that sort of thing worked.
Fellow Escapists, I bid they to turn back your clocks to the game known as Dark Cloud. For those of you who are familiar with it, you already know what I'm getting at. For those who don't, brief explantion.
Dark Cloud is a dungeon-crawler RPG that combines the use of puzzles and strategy in character use. The six characters you use have abilities necessary to get through the various dungeons, and all have different styles of combat which are important for - at the very least - defeating the final boss. The central main character, though, IS responsible for putting the damn world back together, so let's here it for our hero.
Now then, this game is the first game which I can safely say I encountered quicktime events. Only, they're more or less blended seemlessly into the game in a way that is better than other games for three reasons. One, it's used more or less to further the story as cinematic events. Two, you can save before them and it will let you try again instead of busting you back to the beginning of the level or something anyway. And three, it damn well warns you beforehand when it's going to happen and how it works. This basically turns it into "Press X to be awesome and there's no downside to getting it wrong, seriously.", which is the proper use of such things.
Come to think of it, there's a number of elements that I've heard Yahtzee speak out about. Let's see now... Weapons that take damage are there, but I always found that it's fine because they can be repaired and even upgraded into better weapons. Of course, I always figured it was realistic to use that in a game for one fairly good reason. If your sword is about to break when fighting an enemy, maybe you shouldn't be swinging it as, oh say, a stone golem! But still, I found Dark Cloud to be unique, the breaker of the mold for RPGs that you can't really replicate (unless you're talking the sequel, but I never really got into that).
I still have my copy of Dark Cloud and I wholly agree they had a good reason for existing in that game. Personally I blame God of War for the big boom in quick time events popularity. God I hated that game!
First, they should be integrated into the gameplay such that it doesn't slow the pace of the game. If you fail, you shouldn't suffer any worse than if you failed at any other interactive task.
Two, they should be pretty damn cinematic. If I can do it without a QTE, why should I even bother?
GoW's a great example. PoP's a great example. Both of these games allow you to fail QTE's and just keep on playing.
RE4 fails on the first part. Tomb Raider Legend failed the first part. These are the most frustrating examples because it basically becomes a broken game of Simon that can send you all the way back to the beginning or even a different save point.
I suppose the actual point I was trying to make with this is that there are places, times, and games in which the QTE actually works. Dark Cloud was my Exhibit A because it was the first to come to mind as a sort of ground-breaking game in terms of design and features that used it. Not everyone will share my opinions and that's fine. The idea was simply to give a heads up that the QTE isn't fang of a cobra, but more akin to nuclear power. At the right place and at the right time, it works. Otherwise, it blows up messily and causes cancer. But that doesn't make it a power to be feared. No no... What's to be feared are the villagers with the torches and pitchforks if you should do it wrong.
I love Dark Cloud, it was great. When I did have it I would replay the QTEs. "WHY?" you ask? Because it was kinda fun and the better you did the better stuff you got from it. So far this is the only game that QTEs are any good.
ps. I've been trying to get it again (for 2 years), because my coppie broke. So if you have it plz tell me so I can buy it off of you.
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