Preview: Homefront

[Dogstile]

Any game that tries that hard to put Americans in the position of underdogs will get nothing but scorn from me.

May I ask why?

Placing the player/protagonist in a position of insurmountable power is not conducive to a dramatic scenario or an enjoyable story.

The makers of this game are clearly aware of this.

However, they are so attached to the idea of an American hero that they have to cook up a ridiculous scenario in order to have a America in the position of underdog.

Hence the scorn.

Actually, I can agree to that. However, they may just be basing it on the notion that some people might not want to play as an american asian, or african american. Scraping the bottom of the barrel here though.

Any game that tries that hard to put Americans in the position of underdogs will get nothing but scorn from me.

May I ask why?

I'll answer this one...

Because some of us are tired of playing games where the main point is that USA is awesome and other countries suck and are just there to either invade or laugh at...

America was successfully invaded. I'm pretty sure that country doesn't suck if its managed to beat your air force and navy.

Edit: I realise that country sucks in real life. However, its a game.

Woopty-fucking-doo, do you want me to tell you how the game is going to end?
Hmm... i guess... that... America wins a glorius victory and the world is then a happier place...

And yes, its a game... A game with almost the same plot as every other game nowa days...
i would play a game where you invade the shit out of america. thats actually one of my biggest dreams when it comes to games...

Well damn, you seem mature. Of course America ends. What game wants to leave its main audience feeling horrible after completion? And same plot eh? Do you even play other games or just shooters?

 

[BrotherRool]

The problem I always have with these games is that I have almost no attachment to America and even if I did, patriotism is somewhat of an American concept, even on forums I've found American people are always more likely to justify something on the basis of it's relation to America whereas the Brits tend to be a little more cynical and the Canadians always make "do you know we exist?" jokes

 

[jamradar]

I forgot that this game was even coming out.

 

[GWarface]

Any game that tries that hard to put Americans in the position of underdogs will get nothing but scorn from me.

May I ask why?

Placing the player/protagonist in a position of insurmountable power is not conducive to a dramatic scenario or an enjoyable story.

The makers of this game are clearly aware of this.

However, they are so attached to the idea of an American hero that they have to cook up a ridiculous scenario in order to have a America in the position of underdog.

Hence the scorn.

Actually, I can agree to that. However, they may just be basing it on the notion that some people might not want to play as an american asian, or african american. Scraping the bottom of the barrel here though.

Any game that tries that hard to put Americans in the position of underdogs will get nothing but scorn from me.

May I ask why?

I'll answer this one...

Because some of us are tired of playing games where the main point is that USA is awesome and other countries suck and are just there to either invade or laugh at...

America was successfully invaded. I'm pretty sure that country doesn't suck if its managed to beat your air force and navy.

Edit: I realise that country sucks in real life. However, its a game.

Woopty-fucking-doo, do you want me to tell you how the game is going to end?
Hmm... i guess... that... America wins a glorius victory and the world is then a happier place...

And yes, its a game... A game with almost the same plot as every other game nowa days...
i would play a game where you invade the shit out of america. thats actually one of my biggest dreams when it comes to games...

Well damn, you seem mature. Of course America ends. What game wants to leave its main audience feeling horrible after completion? And same plot eh? Do you even play other games or just shooters?

Well thank you, i do feel quite mature... And yes i do play other games, but thats not really the case here...
All im saying is that it would be nice with a little change in these often political games, and not all this yankee loving stuff...

 

[Del-Toro]

This storyline is hilarious at best, what about the US Navy? There's no way Korea could invade the US, I mean seriously, are they completely out of ideas?

Now a Russian-Sino coalition, in which Korea is part of, could invade the US. That is likely. But not Korea, by gods no.

this is what i was saying, if sumone was to attack america they WOULD NOT be alone, and we as a country dont have the cold that saved russia, the small island coastline that has more or less saved britain, or the sheer numbers that makes no one want to attack china... chinas numbers, russian technology, korean craziness and we'd be royally boned

All moot, because you have nukes, and can always use them to get out of a situation.

Right:
Cold wasn't the only thing that saved Russia, see food shortages;
The coastline wasn't the only thing to save Britain, see the battle of Britain;
No-one wants to attack China because they have nukes, not because they have numbers- see Korean War;
Russians have inferior technology;
Numbers are useful, but not so much when you transport them halfway across the world- imagine the logistics;
No you wouldn't. If we're pulling allies into this, then you'd have much of Europe on your side, too.

foreign enemy crosses our border we'd retreat IMMEDIATLEY i meen we called for an end to the iraq war after a few thousand deaths.. imagine if a war with a few hundred thousand deaths on the first day crossed our borders, we'd be in a panic with no moral,

Retreat? What! It's different fighting a war on your own soil than it is fighting it somewhere else. Retreating in Iraq is no indicator, especially given the ridiculous patriotism in the USA. God. Think about things for a moment. You might consolidate, but you can't retreat if there's no-where to go. That'd be a surrender, which would never happen.

we're not even that good of soldiers compared to evenvietnam, andeven iraq dida goodjob beating us down... if they found a way around our navy we'd be in a serious war

Ugh. If the other major powers tried to invade it would likely become a pitched, old-style battle rather than the guerilla style wars you're citing. They would want to use their tanks and aircraft and would be thoroughly pwned by yours. As much as I might dislike the USA, the claims you are making as to your vulnerability are ridiculous.

You don't even consider the economic barriers to a war like this.

And then there's the fact that the last few wars America has lost weren't lost by soldiers on the battlefield, they were lost by protesters at home and bureaucrats in Washington. I mean, US troops won basically every firefight in 'nam and they've won basically every firefight in the middle east (most casualties are from IEDs because that's the only way insurgents can make the body count rise). The US won every battle in vietnam, for example, so I don't think the Army itself is the problem. An army is meant to win battles, and those battles are meant to equal a victorious war. I guess the states has found a way for that not to work.

As for how they could have won. Well, the VC recruitment methods were basically press gang operations, so, knowing that undefended peasant villages made fertile ground for roving conscription officers, the Marine Corps tried a little tactic called "helping them help themselves" and equipped and taught those villages to protect themselves. Press ganging became a tad more difficult if trying to do so would get you gunned down by the villagers you're trying to conscript. Some asshole general (and aren't they all) said it wasn't taking the fight to the enemy, when it was! It really was, and on a vital level. They were attacking their ability to rebuild!

 

[Callate]

Having braved so many firefights and fought your way towards a community of fellow resistors, you're criticized for bringing unwanted attention on the civilians caught in the middle. It's a great moment that turns your expectations on their head. Here you've been trying to link up with the resistance and, by the mere fact of success, have screwed up the lives of several innocent people.

Oh, joy. One of my pet peeves: games that scold you for doing things you have to do in order to advance the plot.

I realize that our medium doesn't always succeed in drawing upon the kind of intellectual and emotional resonance that media such as movies, television, and books seem to almost take for granted, but frankly this enterprise sounds like a rather shallow exercise in emotional manipulation.

Pass, thanks.

 

[Autofaux]

In the trailer, the backdrop of it is the combined force of both North Korea and South Korea, as well as financial and military backing of China and Russia, coupled with the complete economic destabilisation of the USA, leading to millions becoming destitute and unemployed.

Under those circumstances, 300m people are easily walked over, especially since they are all civilians. Starving civilians.

So, before people trumpet the might of the ICBMs, the F-16 and NUKES!, just remember, they probably had to sell those.

 

[Dr.Nick]

Sorry Homefront but as I mentioned in other threads, the story is just too unrealistic to have any kind of immersion. I would just be facepalming the whole way through the game.

 

[Tsaba]

I actually look forward to Homefront, I want to see how things get to where they are in the game. 16-17 years is a lot of time for stuff to happen, so, not completely unbelievable, I hope the single player isn't neglected in place of the multi-player or vice versa.

 

[latenightapplepie]

I wonder whether this game will be as good for non-American citizens.

 

[J234]

Most shooters seem to suggest that the shooting justifies itself, but Homefront tries to place it in a context that provides a persistent motivation that touches the player's natural patriotism.

It might be patriotic for YOU, my Yankee friend, but believe it or not, the whole world does not actually live in America. Though I do live in North America (Canada if you're so curious), so I suppose the environs will certainly make me feel familiar, if not patriotic.

Also, as a few have said, the game's story talks about a post-peak oil America heavily weakened by a tattered economy and everything else Republicans ever did ever (if I can trust Jon Stewart), and North and South Korea have been unified into a single Korean Republic, which comes over and kicks America in the proverbial dick. And so I imagine China, still being relatively powerful, must have some ingenious way of remaining powerful even when the US has been crippled.

 

[Andantil]

"successful North Korean invasion of the United Stated" I stopped reading there.

Complete fucking impossibility... unless china does all the real work, which they would.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

"successful North Korean invasion of the United Stated" I stopped reading there.

Complete fucking impossibility... unless china does all the real work, which they would.

I actually think that an invasion by space-aliens would be more plausible.

 

[Travan]

I'm fairly conflicted about this game; the premise is blatant jingoistic hokum, and John Milius' writing is like minus ten zillion points. But if the mooks are kept more or less faceless and don't talk too much, this may be the closest thing to an "It Can't Happen Here", or "Year Zero" game we can hope for.

 

[paragon1]

Please, north Korea can barely feed its own people. How the hell are they going to keep troops supplied in a hostile territory? What happened to that shitload of military hardware we keep in Japan? What's stopping China from curb-stomping their asses with their military overseas interfering with China's primary trade partner? What happened to our mind-bogglingly massive stockpiles of WMD?
I could believe China might pull something like this off, but North Korea? That's just insulting.
It's like they're not even trying anymore!

 

[XMark]

I was laughing at the "successful invasion by North Korea" part, but I looked up the backstory for it, and to their credit, they give it a semi-plausible buildup to the conflict. From the Wikipedia article:


2011: North Korea's weapons program grows significantly, leading to sanctions by the UN
2012: Kim Jong-il dies. He is succeeded by his son Kim Jong-un
2013: Kim Jong-un reunites North Korea and South Korea
2015: Gas prices rise to $20 a gallon in the United States, destabilizing the country
2017: The US Dollar collapses and the US Military begins to downgrade its foreign presence
2018: Japan surrenders to the Greater Korean Republic, forming an 'alliance'
2022: The United States's economic system collapses totally
2024: Koreans annex many nations in East Asia
2025: GKR attacks the US
An EMP hidden in a communications satellite is used to completely disable US infrastructure
GKR forces seize Hawaii
Cyber attack takes down hardened sites
Korean troops control San Francisco
US military is scattered



So it's an America that's been wrecked by financial disaster being invaded by a united army of North and South Korea and Japan. And I suppose in that scenario, China is just looking out for themselves and not getting involved either way.

 

[Earthmonger]

Also, is there a reason to protect the mother and child in that house? Without a family connection I doubt I'd feel anything for them. Hope the game doesn't force you to save them.

I'm making the assumption that most players are decent enough to save babies who don't happen to be related to them. I realizethat may not be the case.

It's not a scripted objective necessarily. If the Koreans get close enough to kill the baby, it's a sure bet you've already been killed anyway.

That isn't a bet I would take. Reality may be different, but in a game; nah. Wanna test the morality of the player? Place a bomb in a house. Set a timer for 30 seconds. In one room, you've got a mother and child. In another, you've got a shiny new sniper rifle. 30 seconds. Send the player in and see what they choose; the burden of two defenseless followers; or a tool that enhances their own survivability.

Unless they meant something to me, I know what I'd choose. Except in the event that the developers installed some cheesy Achievement for shackling that extra meat to my back.

 

[Nikolaz72]

Actually, never mind. Just checked on wikipedia, North Korea has an army of about 9.5 million (mostly reserves) while America has about 2.5 million (mostly active). Assuming nukes are somehow out of the picture, and that China and/or Russia are funding or arming the North Koreans they'd probably be an even match. The NK would need support from other nations though, otherwise the American air superiority would just end it all in a few weeks.

Those numbers mean about spit. The USA has 300 million people living within its border--NK a tenth of that, at most. If it ever came down to war, two million highly-trained (compared to the Koreans), extremely technologically advanced (compared to Chinese and Russian military equipment) American soldiers could hold off one million Korean regulars and eight million reservists doing the human wave until enough reinforcements could be trained to stomp North Korea into the dirt five times and still have leftovers. This is also true for China, Russia, and India. Unless America somehow lost its entire air force and NK still had its air force, in which case the Koreans would really need to learn how to fly their planes so they could win.

Anyway, yes the premise is silly. It's honestly about as silly as the premise for Red Dawn. Two huge, heavily-populated, nuclear-armed nations aren't going to go fisticuffs, that's amazingly stupid. Russia could never have beaten the USA conventionally, just like United States tanks could have never rolled into Moscow--they couldn't have even gained much strategically from fighting, because at the end of the day the other side would still have nukes, and that's all that was needed for negotiation. NK's got nothing to break that stalemate, certainly, but neither did the two superpowers, so I say: let it play out. Freedom Fighters was fun enough, hopefully this will be two.

America has 200.000 Up to date and highly trained troops.. The rest has pretty much just gotten through bootcamp and earned a little clap on the behind. I know that might be undercutting it a bit but with the way that SOME private companies earn a lot on weapons and therefor ínvest a lot of money in private research probably results in more effective weapons pretty fast. Keeping millions of soldiers equiped with that is pretty expensive. Also when you take into consideration that the US is in a /pretty big/ debt to China and probably also owes a bit to others. They just cant afford the advanced equipment you speak. Which is why they limitt the troops with that kind og gear to a couple of hundred thousand while giving the rest your standard weaponry that other country's even the quite poor ones could easily attain. I mean in Iraq you have heard of US Soldiers dropping their own gun for the Insurgent weapons (And thats ment as, theirs are sometimes even better) Which means that Standard Issue equipment in US is pretty much the standard issue equipment of everyone else. And the training of standard US troops, while high. Does still not make them into supersoldeiers.

Then again. Why even argue this kind of thing? THQ looks like they themself think the game as a bit of a joke so why dont we laugh with them instead of debate at them.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Patriotic Americans defending their homeland from an evil communist/socialist nation. Why does this sound familiar, and I'm not talking about a game.

 

[Namewithheld]

The problem I always have with these games is that I have almost no attachment to America and even if I did, patriotism is somewhat of an American concept, even on forums I've found American people are always more likely to justify something on the basis of it's relation to America whereas the Brits tend to be a little more cynical and the Canadians always make "do you know we exist?" jokes

...huh?

Patriotism is not an American concept. Rather, it is a concept inextricably tied to the concept of nationalism itself, which arose in the 19th and 20th centuries, with some prime examples being the build up of national pride that preceded WWI in French, British, and German countries.

America has a few fairly strong patriotism memes going through it - ranging from the "fighting for freedom" thing that neocons toss around to the "real patriotism is critique and social change" that liberals toss around - but to call it a purely American concept is...kinda silly.

Specially when we're talking about a video game that includes North Korea: The only country in the world that is a necrotocracy, where the living are ruled by the dead.

If North Korea could export patriotism and nationalism, they'd be an economic superpower to rival China and America and Russia...and most of Europe...COMBINED.

As for Homefront...eh.

I still want my alternate history where the Confederacy won the Civil War, and for the next century, the USA and CSA bashed into one another, resulting in an alternate WWII that has Utah being a police state with Mormon suicide bombers, Canada is occupied by the USA (and Quebec is its own nation), France and Britain are fascist dictatorships fighting the Germans (who are still controlled by the Kaiser) and the USA has been socialist since the 1920s.

Pittsburgh is the stand in for Stalingrad! There are concentration camps for black people in Texas! Confederate tanks roll up the great plains! Bombs fall! People die! Stuff explodes!

Come on people, it's WWII, but it all takes place on America! The bad guys are Americans, the good guys are Americans, and so on.


I'm not the only Harry Turtledove fan am I?