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fulano

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Staskala said:
unabomberman said:
What is it that people expect when they turn americans into afghan insurgents? To me it is glaringly obvious. Sadly, I believe this game plays out to the exceptionalism present in a large part of the developed world's youth, and most people wonn't even bother to make the connection.

From within the context, this game is trying to appeal to the whole "Oh, shit! They're in my backyard, gotta fight them off!" mentality. Of course, most people won't even bother to make the connection (hey, the game's called HOMEFRONT) but it's there.
But for that to work you would need to portray the "bad guys" as sympathetic, acting out of actually good ideals, portraying their rule as not being all that bad and so on.
After all, not even America attacks countries just for the fun of it, there is an underlying factor of ideals, various intentions (even goodwill), morals and whatnot.
Then you get to questions like if resistance really is always justifed or if it's just action out of principle (especially if the resistance is just a small minority with most people being happy with the new regime) and so on.
Yes, that's very interesting stuff, but if your enemies are 100% evil, then I'm sorry, but there's nothing of that here.

Of course the game could be interesting; if it actually started with America invading North Korea and then losing and getting occupied all the while portraying North Korea as being on the same moral ground (or even above), I'd consider this a must-buy for me.
Not that it would make any more sense, but it would be far more interesting than the generic premise it seems to have.
Uh, what?

But, yes. Putting North Korea and the U.S at exactly the same moral ground is what I'm doing. To the layman there would be no difference: Zilch. No country wants to get invaded, no matter the set of ideals the invading force happens to be waving, just ask the Iraqis--the U.S kicks Saddam's butt, and what happens? Yes, the question was rethorical.

I doubt any Afghan insurgent sees the U.S troops as anything other than "100% evil." That's what I mean.
 

Nyce1

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Jun 25, 2010
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Got to see this game at a conference I attended and.. well .. in short it looked very very outdated. Hope the unfinished product gets a graphic overhaul.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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Why would you invade the US? You're talking about a future defaulting nation, with little social services to contain it's growing homelessness, despite land prices being at a historic low.

Why would you want to be burdened by caretaking after 300 million angry poor people with guns?

Although the premise of the game is that the North Koreans aren't doing so much 'caretaking' as just being the definition of 'Stupid Evil' ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil ).

If that's the case why wouldn't they just use germ warfare and watch people die en masse in pain and suffering? Somewhat less 'Stupid Evil' than what the game seems to be making them.

The only message I'm getting from this game is "Patriotism makes people accept shitty standards in gaming and that gamers are ultimately childish morons". Atleast Red Dawn made damn certain that the Wolverines weren't nice people, and that war and politics is a genuine disgrace to the Human condition...

...this game just seems to be an excuse to shoot people with guns whilst waving a flag. Lovely.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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blue_guy said:
The plot for this game is so silly, how do these guys



the socially crippled, dirt-poor bunch of loons armed with guns that were outdated decades ago, manage to invade the USA?

China could probably pull it off a few years into the future (assuming they somehow disarm americas nukes), maybe Russia could to. But North BLOODY Korea?!?!?


Actually, never mind. Just checked on wikipedia, North Korea has an army of about 9.5 million (mostly reserves) while America has about 2.5 million (mostly active). Assuming nukes are somehow out of the picture, and that China and/or Russia are funding or arming the North Koreans they'd probably be an even match. The NK would need support from other nations though, otherwise the American air superiority would just end it all in a few weeks.

Of course, the amount of guns per person in america would mix things up, but thats what the game is about.
If you looked into the game more, you'd see that the story begins with North and South Korea merging, and from there its influence quickly spreads across Southern Asia.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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PaulH said:
Why would you invade the US? You're talking about a future defaulting nation, with little social services to contain it's growing homelessness, despite land prices being at a historic low.

Why would you want to be burdened by caretaking after 300 million angry poor people with guns?

Although the premise of the game is that the North Koreans aren't doing so much 'caretaking' as just being the definition of 'Stupid Evil' ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StupidEvil ).

If that's the case why wouldn't they just use germ warfare and watch people die en masse in pain and suffering? Somewhat less 'Stupid Evil' than what the game seems to be making them.

The only message I'm getting from this game is "Patriotism makes people accept shitty standards in gaming and that gamers are ultimately childish morons". Atleast Red Dawn made damn certain that the Wolverines weren't nice people, and that war and politics is a genuine disgrace to the Human condition...

...this game just seems to be an excuse to shoot people with guns whilst waving a flag. Lovely.
The U.S. has a shitload of resources and farmland.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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ultrachicken said:
The U.S. has a shitload of resources and farmland.
Such as? China buys it's iron ore from Australia and Brazil, Russia has more off shore and land based oil reserves, The Canadians and Russians also have access to huge amounts of natural gas (of which will be the next 'Big Thing' in updating current automotives and conserving diminishing future fuel assets).

The Russian agricultural initiatives will eventuially succeed the US in terms of food production by multiple factors and will become the principle supplier of grain to Asia and Europe.

Devalued US currency means the US no longer even has the capacity to frighten the Lat. Am nations, of which the US turned into luxury sweatshops for decades through the IMF. A greater distrust and resistance towards economic neo-liberalism that pervaded such iconic reigns as Pinochet during the 80's across South America has risen. The South American Union will see to a reversal of this practice as Lat. Ams will start collectively bargaining for greater dispensation on goods produced in the region.

There is little that the US could ever possibly offer above what another nation could provide in greater abundance and with greater reliability.... apart from a cheap labour force.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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PaulH said:
ultrachicken said:
The U.S. has a shitload of resources and farmland.
Such as? China buys it's iron ore from Australia and Brazil, Russia has more off shore and land based oil reserves, The Canadians and Russians also have access to huge amounts of natural gas (of which will be the next 'Big Thing' in updating current automotives and conserving diminishing future fuel assets).

The Russian agricultural initiatives will eventuially succeed the US in terms of food production by multiple factors and will become the principle supplier of grain to Asia and Europe.

Devalued US currency means the US no longer even has the capacity to frighten the Lat. Am nations, of which the US turned into luxury sweatshops for decades through the IMF. A greater distrust and resistance towards economic neo-liberalism that pervaded such iconic reigns as Pinochet during the 80's across South America has risen. The South American Union will see to a reversal of this practice as Lat. Ams will start collectively bargaining for greater dispensation on goods produced in the region.

There is little that the US could ever possibly offer above what another nation could provide in greater abundance and with greater reliability.... apart from a cheap labour force.
Have you seen all the farmland we have? I'd consider that useful.

Also, if NK were to take over the US, then its reputation as a global superpower would be sealed. No-one would want to fuck with the country that took over the US

Also, I'm not sure why you spent so much time talking about other countries, seeing as we're talking specifically about NK's fictional desire to take over the US. Stay on topic.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
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ultrachicken said:
Have you seen all the farmland we have? I'd consider that useful.
You do understand that grain is a fungible asset? The principal concerns with fungibility are supply. Given that the US cannot produce as much grain, nor are located anywhere near Russia (Using Russia as the new terminal distributor of grain that it will become), and that Latin America produces so much already (and given the fact that Agriculture still only accounts for 4.8% of global gross domestic market) your point is moot.

Also, if NK were to take over the US, then its reputation as a global superpower would be sealed. No-one would want to fuck with the country that took over the US
Irrelevant, subjective, and foolish.

A: NK isn't a superpower.

B: The US soon won't beable to afford to be a superpower, so conquering it would be a moot exercise in moronic use of military funds, personnel and equipment. The only real reason one may invade the US is possibly revenge ... but given that in 30 years time this won't be necessary makes it ridiculously preposterous.

C: NK attacking the US would spur a reprisal against North Korea ... Why would the Chinese want the US to disappeare when they can rape it economically?

Also, I'm not sure why you spent so much time talking about other countries, seeing as we're talking specifically about NK's fictional desire to take over the US. Stay on topic.
Because it was your argument that the US has resources that are exploitable despite closer countries to Asia and Europe (in truth all high consumption nations) producing resources in greater supply and quicker delivery.

It would cost more to placate a US population in an armed conflict then it would actually be worthwhile.

You'd be better off spending that money on public services and government funded corporate interests to continue to take advantage of America's complete inability to stop it's own consumption whilst pricing it's own local economies out of the market.

Hopefully in a thousand years time we will look at situations like these and realize countries are utterly pointless and moronic constructs and that Humanity is better off without such corrupt, wasteful and monolithic pseudo-organizations.
 

ForensicYOYO

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Jun 12, 2010
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Whats funny is it seemed really creative but when I looked at it, it somehow looks like a mix between MW2 and Resistance 2. MW2 for the guns Resistance 2 for the fact you basically are doing the same thing which is fighting off the overwhelming enemy threat in American. Hell they both start in the same city WITH THE SAME BRIDGE.
 

TheJwalkR

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May 20, 2009
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I may be able to stomach the idea of NK catching the states off guard and invade. However I find it extremely implausible that they could maintain an occupation for any period of time. Occupations are extremely hard to carry out. Especially considering the size of USA.
 

House_Vet

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Dec 27, 2009
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joes said:
i think the game presurposes that america has been crippled by rampant un-regulated capitalism...which seems to be happening right now.

i hope the game stresses parallels to the iraqi insurgency, as we are currently in the north korean role in that present day occupation.
Ding! This. You guys saying "it'd never happen" are right in as much as it wouldn't if they tried tomorrow. Give it 30 years, and if the US slumps into serious decline, how would they pay for a navy? etc. etc. Things will not stay the same, powers rise and fall, and the US appears to have crested its wave and started to curl. Just my opinion.
 

The Random One

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May 29, 2008
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Well, it does sound good. It's trying to reach a commitment between 'let's just make another shooter' and 'let's try to do something weird that a few critics will love and no one will play'. It's all in the making though.

THQ is puzzlingly one of my favourite publishers so I'll be on the lookout for this one.

Zhukov said:
Any game that tries that hard to put Americans in the position of underdogs will get nothing but scorn from me.

Well me too but it's a hilarious kind of scorn. Like, 'oh wow really?' Then I play anyway.

I find the way most Americans think their country is the hottest thing in the world to be very amusing.

Danny Ocean said:
Should've made it a Canadian Mountie Invasion of the USA. At least that's a bit more plausible. =P
Hey, don't diss the Mounties. They're the FBI and the Marines rolled into one. In Canada. You tried being the Marines in a country that's mostly frozen wasteland? Didn't think so.
 

Aphroditty

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Nov 25, 2009
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Nikolaz72 said:
America has 200.000 Up to date and highly trained troops.. The rest has pretty much just gotten through bootcamp and earned a little clap on the behind. I know that might be undercutting it a bit but with the way that SOME private companies earn a lot on weapons and therefor ínvest a lot of money in private research probably results in more effective weapons pretty fast. Keeping millions of soldiers equiped with that is pretty expensive. Also when you take into consideration that the US is in a /pretty big/ debt to China and probably also owes a bit to others. They just cant afford the advanced equipment you speak. Which is why they limitt the troops with that kind og gear to a couple of hundred thousand while giving the rest your standard weaponry that other country's even the quite poor ones could easily attain. I mean in Iraq you have heard of US Soldiers dropping their own gun for the Insurgent weapons (And thats ment as, theirs are sometimes even better) Which means that Standard Issue equipment in US is pretty much the standard issue equipment of everyone else. And the training of standard US troops, while high. Does still not make them into supersoldeiers.
America's weaponry (missiles, aircraft, vehicles, etc.) is currently, overall, the most technologically advanced in the world, so I don't know what you were going on about the States not being able to afford to make technologically advanced equipment--the US already has, even if there's been no persuasive reason for it to issue it to every GI. The F-22, for example, is a crazy-advanced (though fragile) fighter jet, but production on it was ceased because it was too advanced--there was no threat sufficient for it, so spending that money was pointless. Moving from there, the US debt to China would not affect its ability to defend itself for a few reasons, most noticeably the fact that if it came down to it the US could cancel its debt to China, or stop funding Social Security, welfare, and education, and start making weapons (all of which can be produced within US borders).

Secondly, I would seriously dispute your unsourced claim that America's military forces have only 200,000 troops who would be able to participate in combat. Consider the fact that ~200,000 American forces have been in Iraq since 2003, ~30,000 in Afghanistan in 2001, both of which are combat zones. This completely discounts combat-ready troops in South Korea and on the high seas. Certainly, American does not have 2 million soldiers ready and armed to fight right now--that's a logistical impossibility for any country. NK doesn't have 9 million troops ready to go to combat, for instance. There are significant reserves of materiel, however, and it has the potential to mobilize that number since, as I mentioned, in a time of national emergency the USA's ability to equip its soldiers would meet that minimum level.

And, as a matter of fact, I haven't heard of American troops in Iraq dropping their weapons for insurgent weaponry. Presumably there are many reasons for that, and I certainly wouldn't deny that, in terms of firearms, the US is more advanced; a gun is a gun is a gun, at some point. In most other ways, however, such as battlefield intelligence, personal body armor, camouflage, gun sights, the US combat trooper's equipment is far beyond a North Korean's, much less an insurgent's. Facing an aggressor (contemporary NK troops) from a strong defensive position (which the US would have if NK invaded) then it would be somewhat pathetic for NK to have a go.

Now, give it a half a century, we can talk then, but it's really difficult, if not impossible, to imagine things changing so fast that NK becomes a credible threat within twenty years.
 

Altar

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Apr 6, 2009
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Ok, I know this is apparently in a not so distant future where America is well... in a horrible state... and apparently North Korea... (or would it be the whole of Korea?) but one thing I wanna know is, America's allies where are they and what are they doing? Are they in a bad state they can't help... or have the just gone screw it... we can't be bothered helping... anyways... stuff...
 

Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
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North Korea invades the U.S... well... they're gonna have a lot of explaining to do about what the hell happened between the present day and the year this takes place in. From the idea of "massive economic collapse" for the U.S. and thereby ignoring NK to take care of itself as it conquers or makes friends with the countries of Asia... Implausible... but I wouldn't call impossible yet...

If the future scenario were Palin gets elected in 2012 then I could probably believe how the U.S. would go all to shit.

I mean if a unified Korea could possibly convince China that the U.S. was no longer a paying back investment... China could totally screw over the U.S. economy if it collapsed by refusing the kinds of loans we're getting now.

Basically, implausible... but so is the plot to Halo and I love that one.
 

Cyberjester

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Oct 10, 2009
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Nolanp01 said:
This storyline is hilarious at best, what about the US Navy? There's no way Korea could invade the US, I mean seriously, are they completely out of ideas?

Now a Russian-Sino coalition, in which Korea is part of, could invade the US. That is likely. But not Korea, by gods no.
In this game, it looks like Korea has China.

Sheer numbers dude. :p


pumuckl said:
Danny Ocean said:
Steve Butts said:
THQ's upcoming shooter puts players in the boots of an American guerilla, fighting in the resistance movement against a successful North Korean invasion of the United States.

Aaaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahhahahaha

*gasp*

Aaahahahahahaah

Seriously. I just read this out to my family in the living room. Everyone burst out laughing, even the dog. Just this ridiculous premise on its own has put me off. I know it's just a game, but come on.

Should've made it a Canadian Mountie Invasion of the USA. At least that's a bit more plausible. =P
with chinese and russian backing that is incredibly possible actualy...

OT: i think the premise of the game is awesome, america is not unconquerable, in fact we'd be rather squishy if sumone gets on our soil
Not really.. You seen the weaponry their cooking up? They ditched a heap of it, "too expensive" even though it was mostly complete. -.- But the grenade system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM25
That would give their soldier such a big advantage that numbers would count for a lot less. Especially in an urban warfare setting. Plus if you count every citizen who has a gun, they have the largest standing militia in the world. And I don't mean, "Oh look, I have a pistol made 50 years ago :D", they have some decent munitions available to the average home owner.



Brains splattering on the window from an execution and a crying baby who watches his parents gunned down on the street corner are just two of the purely visceral, button-pushing moments that game presents. While it may be accurate, there's no real story context for it, and it seems designed just to make the bad guys so bad that the good guys seem like angels by comparison.
There is a point to that. You could say "Hey look, you're a super soldier and parachuted in from Eu. Now go kick butt". Or you can make them an average citizen, show their home under attack, then throw them in the fight. The first way, which it seems you would prefer? Is.. Well boring really. The second way is designed to have an emotion impact on the player and story wise, it sounds like it suits it perfectly. Bearing in mind I haven't played the game so only going on what you said.
 

Celtic_Kerr

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May 21, 2010
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Danny Ocean said:
Steve Butts said:
THQ's upcoming shooter puts players in the boots of an American guerilla, fighting in the resistance movement against a successful North Korean invasion of the United States.

Aaaahahahahahahaahahahahahahahhahahaha

*gasp*

Aaahahahahahaah

Seriously. I just read this out to my family in the living room. Everyone burst out laughing, even the dog. Just this ridiculous premise on its own has put me off. I know it's just a game, but come on.

Should've made it a Canadian Mountie Invasion of the USA. At least that's a bit more plausible. =P
We burned your white house down once man! And your special forces are trained by us. Don't underestimate us