Pro-life

[Lilani]

hmmm....thats surprising coming from geroge carlin (he's the man)

anyway I see what you mean, "pro-life" certianly makes it sound good

personally I dont belive in taking away somones choice, and although the Idea of killing a fetus is disturbing to some...I dont find it "as" bad

and if it is illigal it will just go underground

Really? You find that surprising of Carlin? To me that sounds exactly like something he'd say.

Anyway, being the good Christian that I am and all that, I am most certainly pro choice. No woman should be forced to carry a baby to term, if she feels moved to not do so. Plus, it's better to offer the abortions in legitimate, clean, and sanitary environments rather than opening up a black market for abortions and letting people prey and profit off of all those women.

 

[Thaluikhain]

We're talking about the rights of unborn humans to live provided that their mother has consented to pregnancy and will not die as a result.

Er...if the mother is consenting to being pregnant, presumably she'd choose not to get an abortion?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I don't remember what comedian I am quoting, but I rembmber the message. Everybody is pro-life. If people wouldn't be, they would have killed them selfs years ago.
The notion "pro-life" was made so those people could feel better about who they are, calling it something that sounds better. And to quote Geroge Carlin:

They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women. They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

I say people shouldn't interfere in what is not their buisness.

Thoughts?

This isn't about a war on women's rights. That is bullshit.

It is different in my country.
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02/miscarriage-death-penalty-georgia
We have some crazy people in the pro-life movement.
OP: I don't consider a clump of cells to be a person, sorry. I view it on a slider with my comfort level with abortion decreasing the longer a person is pregnant. At a certain point, I say no abortions.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Come on, dont just blindly make out the pro lifers to be women haters. This is a serious issue and of course theres going to be people on both sides of the fence.

Im pro choice though, but I think the debate is good. It reminds people to take this issue seriously and to not simply treat it as another form of contraception.

 

[dyre]

Oh look, it's this thread. I suppose it's convenient for some pro-choicers to see pro-lifers are people who just don't care about the woman.

 

[lacktheknack]

I propose a ban on George Carlin quotes in political issues.

THEY.

NEVER.

SAY.

ANYTHING.

TRULY.

WORTH.

PAYING.

ATTENTION.

TO.

OT: Bad job trying to undermine the pro-lifers. You've done nothing to make me rethink my anti-abortion stance, if anything, you've made me more solid because of the ridiculous Carlin quote.

 

[Gatx]

This is why the abortion debate doesn't go anywhere. In an argument you need to have to points on opposing sides. Obviously no one wants to be anti-life or anti-choice, so everyone just keeps arguing in circles.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Penn Jillette said it best for me to paraphrase: "Everyone is pro-life and pro-choice. It's for or against allowing abortions that's the issue."

Honestly both sides are responsible for using a misnomer to make their cause sound better. Me personally? I'm not against allowing abortions. I'm not sure if I could condone my wife having one either, but that's for us to discuss and decide if it ever becomes necessary. It is not up to the church, the government or neighbor Bob down the street to decide it for us. Nor is it my responsibility to make that decision for someone else.

 

[octafish]

You made me think of that great Bill Hicks quote...
"I, ah...this abortion issue in the States is dividing the country right in half. You know, and even amongst my friends - we're all highly intelligent - they're totally divided on the issue of abortion. Totally divided. Some of my friends think these pro-life people are just annoying idiots. Other of my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks. How are we gonna have a consensus? I'm torn. I try and take the broad view and think of them as evil, annoying fucks."

You don't like that quote? Take it up with Bill...

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I actually adamantly disagree with that quote. That's utter bullshit. As much as "pro-life" sensationalizes their choice, saying that "they hate women" sensationalizes the pro-choice movement.

No. For the most part, they believe that the fetus is a human. Perhaps misguided, and maybe they don't really get the concept of a conscious state, but trying to pinpoint them as women haters is extremely childish

 

[Monkeyman O'Brien]

I had this argument not that long ago with this preachey christian nutjob who was collecting signatures to stop a abortion clinic being built in town.
His argument was that there are much better ways of handling unwanted children like adoption and teaching better sex education.
I just asked then why was he not collecting signatures to increase funding for these things instead of just being a **** and trying to take away peoples options.
This was right in the middle of town too, busy ass street.
It ended after like 15 minutes of arguing when I pointed out he was just being a judgmental prick who was more interested in forcing his opinions on people and taking away their options than helping them.
He responded by just smiling right at me and flicking through his 3 pages of signatures (not impressive seeing as how many people just ignored him and carried on) which resulted in me grabbing his clipboard and walking away with it.
Pansy ass could not even swear at me since it was a public place and he was after all a christian.

And just for funsies.

 

[brainslurper]

Regardless of the context, there is a legitimate moral issue with killing a fetus because you don't want to have a baby any more. It's not like gay marriage where you can simply dismiss someone as being close minded, and any sensible person makes no relation to sexism whatsoever.

 

[brainslurper]

I had this argument not that long ago with this preachey christian nutjob who was collecting signatures to stop a abortion clinic being built in town.
His argument was that there are much better ways of handling unwanted children like adoption and teaching better sex education.
I just asked then why was he not collecting signatures to increase funding for these things instead of just being a **** and trying to take away peoples options.
This was right in the middle of town too, busy ass street.
It ended after like 15 minutes of arguing when I pointed out he was just being a judgmental prick who was more interested in forcing his opinions on people and taking away their options than helping them.
He responded by just smiling right at me and flicking through his 3 pages of signatures (not impressive seeing as how many people just ignored him and carried on) which resulted in me grabbing his clipboard and walking away with it.
Pansy ass could not even swear at me since it was a public place and he was after all a christian.

And just for funsies.

That lacks a picture of a person with "this is not a corporation"

 

[AMMO Kid]

21 Weeks in the womb: A baby reached out and grabbed the finger of a surgeon (Sarah Marie Switzer). A picture during the incident was taken by Michael Clancy.
"I was totally in shock for two hours after the surgery...I know that abortion is wrong now - it's absolutely wrong." Michael Clancy, Photojournalist, 1999.

Babies are alive, they feel pain after only a few weeks. Sometime to get the babies out of the womb they just cut them into pieces and pull them out (without killing them first). A baby will grow and be birthed unless there are interruptions, and cutting these unborn people into pieces is apparently "pro-choice." Adoption is ten times better than being "pro-choice."

I say people shouldn't interfere in what is not their buisness.

So I assume that Hitler killing 8 million Jews was our business, and as such we went to war, but not Americans killing 40 million unborn babies?

 

[wintercoat]

I take a simple stance on the subject of abortion: if it ain't mine, it's none of my business.

Also, adoption is not the answer. With how poorly funded adoption agencies and foster homes are, and how unregulated the system is, for the majority of foster children it's hell. The percentage of runaways climbs ever higher every year, and cases of drug addiction and repeat criminal offenses is even higher. To claim that putting someone into that system is the noble choice when if they increased taxes to fix it would get the majority of these so-called "pro-lifers" into a froth is ignorant. If you don't care what happens after the birth, you don't get an opinion on what happens before the birth.

 

[Kanatatsu]

This debate is a matter of law, not morality.

In most western countries there is the legal concept of an inalienable right. A person can not legally surrender one of these rights--they are literally unable to be given up.

For example, surrogacy contracts that purport to prohibit the surrogate mother from aborting are illegal. No court would or could enforce that clause of the contract and you would have no legal remedy if she then chose to do so because she is not permitted by law to surrender her bodily autonomy to anyone (even the state).

Just as she cannot surrender her autonomy to you or the state, she cannot surrender it to the fetus due to the inalienability of this right. It makes no difference if one considers the fetus a fully formed human being--her right to bodily autonomy trumps any rights the fetus may have.

You may think she is wrong to abort, and that's fine, but she must have the right to do so if we are to retain the concept of an inalienable right. And retaining that concept is of incalculable value to any civilized society.

 

[Mad World]

Way I look at it, it's murder. Being against abortion does not make me anti-woman.

 

[Skin]

I think abortion rules should be more stringent, because I believe that all innocent human beings, including the unborn, should have the right to life. This isn't about a war on women's rights. That is bullshit.

Can't have one without the other mate. Wanting to ban abortion means dictating what goes on inside a woman's body, a direct violation of the primary human rights.

There are plenty of laws that invalidate autonomy we have over our bodies. Some things are legal, and others aren't, and abortion falls into the former.

 

[NiPah]

Its weird, but in the end I find myself defining a fetus as a parasitic life form, the act of abortion is more akin to removing someone off life support then simply killing it. Without a female body to provide the nutrients from her own body (which harms her as a host) the fetus would die.

I would say I'm pro-life and pro-choice, I don't like the idea of aborting a fetus, but I certainly understand it should be a choice open to women.

 

[LilithSlave]

I think abortion rules should be more stringent, because I believe that all innocent human beings, including the unborn, should have the right to a healthy life

The "unborn" aren't human beings.

The people who are starving as we speak are human beings.

We should worry about them, instead. They have thoughts and emotions, and are sentient.