Pro-life

[masticina]

Well they want to interfere with the womens right to choose

So yeah they are anti women! Simple as that

I mean sure you can be against abortions happening but in todays modern society.. having safe abortions done in clean clinics. That is something you shouldn't want to remove!
If you remove safe abortion methods.. women will die!
Pro Life people might say that those who are pro choice are "pro death".. but if pro life gets its wishes women will die so they are Pro Death!

And before the shitstorm hits me.. if you are going to be like "but the fetus is a child to"..
Did you know how many fertilized eggs are rejected by the womens body. IF the moment of "gods conception" is the moment the an egg meets an sperm. Then GOD is the biggest abortionist around! How indeed many fertilized eggs simply fail to get a hold .. and are flushed out.

Jews are smart about this.. they put the moment of the spiritual conception so to say at the first breath the new born takes. If things go wrong..and they can.. then it was a failed attempt.

 

[Thyunda]

All I'll say on the matter is I'm glad my mom didn't choose to kill me in the womb.

Pro-choice as well, are you?

 

[Darth_Dude]

I think the pro-life movement is a bit ridiculous, not to mention hypocritical. Why hypocritical? Because most of these pro-lifers are republicans who also cheer for executions,

But then again, what crime did those unborn babies commit?

 

[tehroc]

How come the majority of pro-lifers are the first one's to call for death penalty or war against a muslim nation?

 

[Hattingston]

I am pro-life. While I understand the argument that a woman has the right to choose what happens to their body, I disagree that they have the right to kill their unborn child in order to do so. If a woman has an unwanted pregnancy, and is that opposed to raising the child herself, then there are orphanages. It's rather dissapointing that the movement is chalked up to pro-lifers wanting to take away the rights of women because of religious beliefs.
I'll admit that I'm not sure when life "begins" and the fetus becomes a "person". There is no scientific data that proves it (that I've seen), and so therefore I feel that saying that life starts from conception is the most logical perspective. If life does not begin at conception, then the unwanted child can be sent to an orphanage. If life does start at conception, then each abortion kills someone who is innocent, defenseless, and hasn't had any opportunity to live out their life. From a risk vs. rewards perspective, pro-life is the way to go.
I'll also admit that this is partially based on religious views, in that I think that each person is granted a unique soul, including unborn children.
In addition, making massive generalizations about pro-life people (that they are republican, pro-war, pro-death penalty, etc. etc.) works against your argument, especially without any numbers backing up your post. I do not appreciate being generalized into a category which I am distinctly not, especially when I know many others of similar opinions who differ from it (no, not from where I grew up, not from church, from people from different age groups, beliefs and gender), and frankly it makes you look ignorant.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

Eh, I'm Pro-Choice, personally... but I see what the Pro-Life side is getting at. It's only when they start blowing up abortion places and start killing doctors that I take issue.

 

[ablac]

While i dont feel like i would be right saying a fetus isnt a life i support abortion due to the consequences of illegality leading to illegal abortion which arent good for anyone and the fact that if i ever was in such a situation where it would arise i would certainly get rid of it. But many who oppose it are just ridiculous fanatical women haters like the OP quoted and religous fundamentalists who seem to think the world revolves around them and that they should manipulate democracy to get the tyranny they want


That and it seems that many pro-lifers (not all) dont seem to understand that people dont like abortions but view them as neccesary or the best outcome of a bad scenario. they view it as a black and white situation and they seem to think that pro-choicers gleefully get abortions on a whim and continue with life as if nothing happened. This is not the case and any sane woman can tell you its a hard choice for most normal people and that many go through serious psychological scarring as a result.

 

[ablac]

I think the pro-life movement is a bit ridiculous, not to mention hypocritical. Why hypocritical? Because most of these pro-lifers are republicans who also cheer for executions,

But then again, what crime did those unborn babies commit?

I see youre point however i think hes taking up arms against the idea that these people cheer at the death of someone yet claim they value life. If they truly valued life then they wouldnt call for peole to be executed willy nilly and would instead look for other forms of punishment for a crime. Also i dont want this to turn into a debate on the death penalty as thats for another thread. WWhile a fetus hasnt commited a crime the circumstances are not black and white.

 

[RuralGamer]

Way I look at it, it's murder. Being against abortion does not make me anti-woman.

This. I find it really saddening that the law can be so broken; if a person runs up to a pregnant woman and assaults her, causing her unborn child to die, they can (and in many countries do) get done for murder, yet if the woman decides to kill it, it isn't illegal? I'd argue that the woman should have final say in whether or not she should get pregnant, but I can't see why she or anyone else can decide to play god with another human's life, especially someone who can't defend themselves, has an equal right to exist as anyone else and who has done nothing to deserve being destroyed.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Ughhhh, I knew this thread would be ugly. Real ugly.

Any way, my opinion. It's the woman's body, she has final say.

Death with red hot pokers up the arse of anyone who says otherwise.

Yup yup.

I am vehemently pro-choice and there's no real point arguing with me about it because it's one thing I won't keep calm over. If you're not pro-abortion, fine, but at least respect a woman's right to choose to have one in a safe, medical environment, rather than forcing women to endanger themselves by attempting to do it in back alleys, even by themselves, just so people who aren't in the situation, or can't be, can feel better about themselves. By modern abortion rates someone you know has likely had one, legally or illegally, and can't talk about it or seek help because of the immense amount of shame people place on it.

Before you dismiss the 'it's going to happen anyway' argument with a comparison to drugs or something, it's not the same thing. This is a painful medical procedure that women endure in secret, without medical equipment or aftercare just so some people, largely men, don't have to think about it. It's not always some, as I've heard people put it, 'dumb slut', women young and old, single or married have them, even mothers have them for fuck sake. With such a large portion of the population going to desperate, life-endangering methods to get this I can't see how society can just put their hands up and deny them appropriate care because 'they aren't comfortable with the idea.'

Even if it's just per-brainwave abortions. If you aren't comfortable with that you must be against any form of birth control. It's the same potential for a person to be made.

Also, before I get attacked for saying largely men, statistically in governments, the pro-life campaign is mostly made up of men. It's not an attack on men in general.

 

[ablac]

Its human therefore people view it differently. I dont view peolpe and chickens in the same light.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

You made me think of that great Bill Hicks quote...
"I, ah...this abortion issue in the States is dividing the country right in half. You know, and even amongst my friends - we're all highly intelligent - they're totally divided on the issue of abortion. Totally divided. Some of my friends think these pro-life people are just annoying idiots. Other of my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks. How are we gonna have a consensus? I'm torn. I try and take the broad view and think of them as evil, annoying fucks."

You don't like that quote? Take it up with Bill...

How's about I help with that, huh?


And the thing is: Though I dearly enjoy and love Carlin, Bill was saying these things before him. R.I.P. Bill and George, two of the greatest social commentators this planet has ever seen and heard.

 

[Extravagance]

Whether you believe it's wrong or not, it's better to give someone the choice rather than to completely deny it. When it was illegal in the UK, people did it anyway and there were quite alot of deaths because of it. If you have the choice, you can still disagree with it and not go ahead.

 

[Beryl77]

I'm pro-choice.
I don't see why we should choose how someone else's life should be. It's their body. It's not even clear when a fetus is considered to be a human. They can determine when the fetus starts to feel pain. There are studies but nothing definite. As long as it isn't developed too far, I don't see it as murder or anything like that.
Besides, people will do it. I prefer it, if it's done legally, in a sanitized and controlled clinic. Here's a nice read http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

If the heart is beating, the fetus is alive. Killing it would be murder.

If it's still a clump of cells in a womans womb, then it's valuable research material.

 

[Locke_Cole]

Making abortion illegal is stupid. Women who want it will still find ways to make it happen, only they will have an exponentially higher risk. As long as abortion remains legal those who want it will be able to do so without the chance at causing harm or death to themselves.

Related notes from the World Health Organization:

"Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America?regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds."

"Where abortion is permitted on broad legal grounds, it is generally safe, and where it is highly restricted, it is typically unsafe. In developing countries, relatively liberal abortion laws are associated with fewer negative health consequences from unsafe abortion than are highly restrictive laws."

Source:

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/publications/unsafe_abortion/abortion_facts/en/index.html

 

[SilentCom]

I say people shouldn't interfere in what is not their buisness.

Thoughts?

Are you ok with the public paying for birth control and/or abortions?
Are you ok with the father being financially responsible for the kids for 18 years?

So it is not a private matter, it is in fact "their business."

Also if the child is born they will eventually grow up and be a member of society for better or worse. People sometimes forget that we are all links in the chain that hold society together.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Ughhhh, I knew this thread would be ugly. Real ugly.

Any way, my opinion. It's the woman's body, she has final say.

Death with red hot pokers up the arse of anyone who says otherwise.

Yup yup.

I am vehemently pro-choice and there's no real point arguing with me about it because it's one thing I won't keep calm over. If you're not pro-abortion, fine, but at least respect a woman's right to choose to have one in a safe, medical environment, rather than forcing women to endanger themselves by attempting to do it in back alleys, even by themselves, just so people who aren't in the situation, or can't be, can feel better about themselves. By modern abortion rates someone you know has likely had one, legally or illegally, and can't talk about it or seek help because of the immense amount of shame people place on it.

Before you dismiss the 'it's going to happen anyway' argument with a comparison to drugs or something, it's not the same thing. This is a painful medical procedure that women endure in secret, without medical equipment or aftercare just so some people, largely men, don't have to think about it. It's not always some, as I've heard people put it, 'dumb slut', women young and old, single or married have them, even mothers have them for fuck sake. With such a large portion of the population going to desperate, life-endangering methods to get this I can't see how society can just put their hands up and deny them appropriate care because 'they aren't comfortable with the idea.'

Even if it's just per-brainwave abortions. If you aren't comfortable with that you must be against any form of birth control. It's the same potential for a person to be made.

Also, before I get attacked for saying largely men, statistically in governments, the pro-life campaign is mostly made up of men. It's not an attack on men in general.

I always wait for posters like you in these threads. A woman's opinion on abortion carries way more weight than a man's. It is really easy for a guy to be pro-life.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

Uh, this may belong on the religion and politics thread, it might be better there.

What and not see what happens when the much larger population of the off topic forum gets its hands on a controversial topic!? Such peace is blasphemy. But no, you're right. It does belong there. And would probably go somewhat more nicely.

I was actually going to put it there, but I seem to have wandered to the wrong forum. That is completely my mistake. I couldn't change it and I don't know how to move/delete a thread so it would just have to hang on.
Sorry about that.

 

[OwainGlyndwr1000]

The pro-life is filled with men and women, mostly young- the "argument" that it's comprised of grasping patriarchal men and bitter ageing women is utter nonsense.
Here's a video of the March for Life- see how many young people you can spot-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9Hjc5MCu3s&feature=player_embedded

Answer- A heck of a lot.

The pro-life movement is comprised of about 50% men and 50% women- and in America, the original Roe of Roe v Wade has become pro-life. You can complain that I'm just enforcing my patriarchal control over women, but the fact is I do not have to go very far to find a young/middle aged/older woman who will say the exact same thing that I and others say about abortion.

The "it's my body so I'll do what I want with it" does not hold water. The fetus has a developing body from conception, and it's a mark of our age that pro choicers can hold up freedom from outside control as the ultimate good while they quite happily exert their own murderous control on the most vulnerable to maintain it.

Indeed, I hear quite a lot about the right to control your own body- but the people making these arguments about rights will often quite happily admit that rights do not have a real existence, but are dependent upon those creating them. In such a moral universe, the statement "Abortion is a right" carries the same weight as "I like the colour green".

And it's also just slightly disturbing that children are being referred to as "parasites" on this thread.