Protest outside of abortion clinics. Does it go to far?

[Fox12]

Well, it's complicated, but as a pro lifer, this is my view.

Personally, I don't think they should protest outside a clinic. It's generally ineffective, insensitive, and makes them look bad. That said, they certainly have the right, so long as they aren't actually on the private property of the clinic. I don't like it when Westboro Baptist protests outside a soldiers funeral. However, I would argue for their rights to do so. The same goes for the KKK. Having the right to free speech sometimes means having to bare with worst aspects of human nature.

That said, good God people, find a better place to protest.

Thanks America. Now the UK has a growing rise of pro-life/anti-abortion protest.

I see this as a positive, so you're welcome I guess? I'm not sure what America has to do with it : /

Edit: I'm also not sure if I would classify abortion as a human right.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah. Pretty much. I was thinking how it'd blow up in the protesters faces. I'd just laugh in those protesters faces.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. This sort of thing happens every so often, and for the most part, the people that think badly of the protestors because of it think badly of them to begin with.

Hell, you have people outright saying that abortion is worse than rape, that the victim should see the fetus as a gift from god or whatever as it is.

 

[RaikuFA]

Yeah. Pretty much. I was thinking how it'd blow up in the protesters faces. I'd just laugh in those protesters faces.

Unfortunately, it doesn't. This sort of thing happens every so often, and for the most part, the people that think badly of the protestors because of it think badly of them to begin with.

Hell, you have people outright saying that abortion is worse than rape, that the victim should see the fetus as a gift from god or whatever as it is.

Ugh... just ugh. If they want it alive so badly then they should take it in.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Ugh... just ugh. If they want it alive so badly then they should take it in.

I once read an interesting take on this, that fetuses, not being people yet, are pure and unsullied, free of the complications real people have. Any living person is messy and imperfect, there's always some reason to scorn them. That's why people can passionately try to protect fetuses, but then abandon people who, after all, were once fetuses. Also why many people like seeing disabled animals being helped, but aren't so keen on helping people with disabilities.

Or so goes the idea, not sure how much truth there is, but seems like there is at least some.

 

[asinann]

Here's the trick with protests like these. Feel free to protest, but the instant you step on the grounds operated by the clinic be aware that they can and should call the police to haul you off. Video taping people who are going in to get a medical procedure is something that should be a crime if it already isn't.

Sitting off the grounds with signs chanting is fine: the instant these groups begin to do things that could endanger the safety or privacy of the patients police need to start making arrests.

Well, it's complicated, but as a pro lifer, this is my view.

Personally, I don't think they should protest outside a clinic. It's generally ineffective, insensitive, and makes them look bad. That said, they certainly have the right, so long as they aren't actually on the private property of the clinic. I don't like it when Westboro Baptist protests outside a soldiers funeral. However, I would argue for their rights to do so. The same goes for the KKK. Having the right to free speech sometimes means having to bare with worst aspects of human nature.

That said, good God people, find a better place to protest.

Thanks America. Now the UK has a growing rise of pro-life/anti-abortion protest.

I see this as a positive, so you're welcome I guess? I'm not sure what America has to do with it : /

Edit: I'm also not sure if I would classify abortion as a human right.

America is the nation that is exporting extremist conservative christian theology. They have finally realized that the current crop of the nation isn't going to put up with their crap any more and are now sending it to other places that WILL put up with it.

 

[asinann]

double post

 

[Gorrath]

snipity snap

I just want to make a few small clarifications for anyone else who reads what we've both written and elaborate in a concise (ish?) way on a few points you bring up here.

- When I mention making up new definitions for arguments and being taken seriously, I mean in an academic sense. Sure people do this all the time but they basically get laughed at in most scientific disciplines if they try to pull those kinds of shenanigans.

- The egg and sperm are alive but aren't human so there is no reason to extend rights their way. I find it silly when anti-abortion people try to do that.

- The baby is alive and human before it attains consciousness, it's just a question of when we extend rights to the person. If a person wants to say that the unborn have rights when consciousness is achieved, that presents a problem because we don't really understand consciousness all that well and cannot really pinpoint that moment. In any case, I'd still find that a rather arbitrary marker.

- I don't bring up slavery as a red herring here; it is a very valid comparison. I know many people have the same reaction you did here but I don't see why. It's a case of personal rights/liberties of one vs. the socio-econmic concerns of another. This is the exact issue when arguing abortion rights from a socio-economic standpoint vs. the right of life and liberty for the unborn. The comparison to slavery in this context is not a fallacy. Scocio-economic concerns were at the very core of the debate on slavery in this country and, as you rightly point out, are at the very heart of the abortion debate.

- I don't argue anything about "potential life." The baby is human and is alive in every scientific sense upon conception. I see no reason not to extend the typical rights we extend to every living human at that point. To say that a baby is only human once it has developed a functioning brain is to set a definition for this context that isn't used in any other. To say that it isn't alive, isn't human or isn't a baby until 14 weeks is to invent definitions for all of these things that are only applicable in this one context. As mentioned before, if someone stabs the mother and kills the baby before 14 weeks, none of those definitions would apply. It would be alive, human and a baby if a murderer kills it just not if the mother does. That is so severely inconsistent that I can't see any way to accept it.

Anywho, that was all a bit longer than I meant it to be, and again, no need to respond; I make these comments only to be sure my communication is as clear as possible for the sake of anyone reading our conversation. Thanks for being a stand-up person to converse with, especially considering the subject matter.

 

[Gorrath]

Here's the trick with protests like these. Feel free to protest, but the instant you step on the grounds operated by the clinic be aware that they can and should call the police to haul you off. Video taping people who are going in to get a medical procedure is something that should be a crime if it already isn't.

It's not in most places. I do wonder why you assert this though. What specific reasoning is there to make taping people going in for a medical procedure a crime?

Sitting off the grounds with signs chanting is fine: the instant these groups begin to do things that could endanger the safety or privacy of the patients police need to start making arrests.

If anyone's safety is endangered, I would agree that the police should be notified and should step in. This is true of any and all protests. As for privacy, there is no expectation of privacy when you're in public. There are some places here that have blanket laws that deal with video taping people against their wishes but in many places you are free to record anything happening in public, including people going in for medical procedures. Medical privacy is an ethical concern of medical professionals, not the public at large.

America is the nation that is exporting extremist conservative christian theology. They have finally realized that the current crop of the nation isn't going to put up with their crap any more and are now sending it to other places that WILL put up with it.

There is nothing inherent about being pro-life that ties in with Christianity, let alone any kind of extremism. I'm an atheist and I'm pro-life.

 

[White Lightning]

On the contrary, it hasn't gone far enough. They need to be protesting INSIDE the clinic.

 

[Vault101]

Well, it's complicated. The pro-life/anti-choice group sees abortion as literally killing babies .

the same people often don't seem to care about "actual" babies...particularly the "actual" babies of minorities

a lot of it looks like hysteric and aggressive moralising to me

controlling a woman's reproductive right has always been a way of controlling her

I see this as a positive, so you're welcome I guess? I'm not sure what America has to do with it : /
.

America was founded upon puritanical ideals

 

[Vault101]

So if you witnessed someone getting mugged, and you had the power to stop it then and there, you would keep walking and file a complaint with city hall when it was convenient for you? Saving even one human life is more than worth making any number of mothers uncomfortable.

except you're not doing that

cause its not a life anymore than a plant is

your denying the woman the right to exercise control over her body, she's already made her decision and the factors involved should be respected because she's an adult human being capable of making her own decisions...where's the respect for her life? you don't know why she's chosen to do this

putting more unwanted children into a system...actually a WORLD that is not equipped to handle them is a terrible idea

 

[Something Amyss]

the same people often don't seem to care about "actual" babies...particularly the "actual" babies of minorities

Oh, but you see, it's all the woman's fault. If she didn't choose to have sex, and apparently she is the only one involved in making that baby, then she wouldn't be pregnant!

 

[RobertEHouse]

How pro- lifers think is that freedom of choice is only when you make the same choice they believe in. These protestors are fine and dandy, but when you publicly methodically film to shame someone because they don't believe the exactly thing you do. You're not a protestor your voyeur whom gets some sick twisted pleasure out of shaming someone to show your so call moral righteousness.

The amazing thing is, we live in a very gray moralistic society, on one hand we try to triumph modern Victorian morality in an area of MTV and the internet. We believe people have a right to freedom, yet in those very countries people are boo or shamed by others because they have made different choices.

Not everyone whom has entered an abortion clinic does it because they were very loose or have no morals. Some do it because of health issues, financial reasons or even because of a rape, etc. Yet these protestors who film these individuals without even knowing the story behind why they were doing it. Protesting is fine and healthy for a so call democracy, but when you film people to shame them, you're not protesting anymore you are being a voyeur.

 

[Parasondox]

the same people often don't seem to care about "actual" babies...particularly the "actual" babies of minorities

Oh, but you see, it's all the woman's fault. If she didn't choose to have sex, and apparently she is the only one involved in making that baby, then she wouldn't be pregnant!

Actually it's bigger then that. If she didn't have a vagina things would be more easier for her and the world. See what I mean. It's women with vagina's fault. Vaginas are evil!!!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!