Proving Rape

[Thunderous Cacophony]

-snip-

Here you go anyway.
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/1494590.judge_claims_paedophile_victim_dressed_provocatively/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6237480.stm

So I can rectify, that happenned in the UK. I can dig up examples of this sort of shit in any country you want but I rather wouldn't. As for the middle ground. I'm not going to pretend I'm rape-God and that I know the true answers. I'm a much bigger supporter of educating future generations so they can move past the terrible culture we are submerged in that allows rape to happen in the first place. Obiviously rape isn't going to disappear, but at least it will be rare enough that we can stop treating it as something perfectly normal and hopelessly inevitable.

If you'll excuse me, I am going to go throw up now. That judge is a fucking disgrace to the legal system. I can't see how he would believe that a ten year old looked 16 (which I assume is age of consent) or that a 25 year old man would not be a little suspicious of random, obviously young girls approaching him on the street. And then they actually had non-consensual sex, which in the UK has an average penalty of 8 years (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/26/rape-sentence-average-eight-years-justice-figures), while one guy got 2 1/2 years in total, while the other only got 9 months and was freed immediately. Someone needs to kick Judge Hall in the balls so hard his powdered wig flys off.

 

[Lieju]

Agree with you on all fronts. Except possibly:

Whether you can give consent while drunk doesn't really have much to do with feminism.

Whilst I agree with this point, I have only ever seen women (feminist groups in particular) get angry when they're told that if they're not careful, rape can happen to them. (Keep in mind, I never EVER believe it is the victims fault, but as soon as you suggest that women can take action to help prevent getting raped, all of a sudden thats the accusation that gets thrown around).

On the other hand, I look around the cookhouse, and I see plenty of posters aimed at men saying "Is she too drunk to say 'yes'? Then it's a definite 'no'!",

This is touchy subject, the attitude that raped women were asking for it still exists, as well as the hyperbole that all men are rapists, which makes discussing it difficult.
I have been accused of condoning rape for saying that if a woman wears revealing clothing, it's reasonable to assume it's okay to look, although staring might be rude.

And then there are people who claim raped women only have themselves to blame...

There's certainly a difference in advicing someone to avoid risks, and blaming them.
It's wrong for your boyfriend to act violent towards you. But if they act violent/threatening and you don't break it off or report it, you are putting yourself in a situation where you should know you are in risk.

I think it would be best to handle the discussions of rape (and other sexual abuse) more gender-neutral. Men can get sexually abused as well, and neither men or women shouldn't have to fear it in any situation.

Also other forms of sexual abuse should be discussed. For example, coercing someone to have sex by blackmailing.

So, if I manage to thumb in my flaccid penis, it doesn't count?

It would, as sexual abuse(and rape) wouldn't necessarily even involve the penis. But my point was that if there's evidence of more than that, it might imply the man wasn't that drunk.
Although it gets to the tricky area of determining who was how drunk exactly.

 

[viranimus]

Lookie!

This is why Hookers > Hookups

All sex that is not between married couples should be reduced down to a simple financial transaction. Economy is in the shitter? legalize it, make it safer and tax the fu... errr uhhh hell out of it. All kinds of problems solved.

 

[Chemical Alia]

Well yeah, I mean the patriarchy is real man, if it wasn't then why would the women in WW1 forced to stay at home and sew all day while the big free men went and...sat in a ditch and got shot...

Or in the middle ages when women were forced to sit and sew while men went out and in a display of freedom...got stabbed to death.

Or in the Crimea when the female nurses were forced to stay miles behind allied lines while the free and proud men ran into the battlefields to get...shot, and stabbed, and blown up.

The patriarchy is obviously real.

OTAP (On Topic About the Post): Yeah, cracked.com is innocent humor.

You make it seem like women not being allowed to fight in combat is a positive. Women have had no say in that decision.

 

[Woodsey]

I suspect they've simply not thought that through. Of course you can't convict based purely on someone's accusation.

 

[Chemical Alia]

Well yeah, I mean the patriarchy is real man, if it wasn't then why would the women in WW1 forced to stay at home and sew all day while the big free men went and...sat in a ditch and got shot...

Or in the middle ages when women were forced to sit and sew while men went out and in a display of freedom...got stabbed to death.

Or in the Crimea when the female nurses were forced to stay miles behind allied lines while the free and proud men ran into the battlefields to get...shot, and stabbed, and blown up.

The patriarchy is obviously real.

OTAP (On Topic About the Post): Yeah, cracked.com is innocent humor.

You make it seem like women not being allowed to fight in combat is a positive. Women have had no say in that decision.

^ While it is true that women had no choice, neither did the men, they were mostly drafted. The point that I was trying to make was that if the patriarchy truly did exist the big bad men in charge wouldn't be sending other men to die.

I understand that sexism exists in society, but it exists both ways and is far outclassed by the poor being shat on by the rich, something which had always stayed constant.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Though this still happens in most countries today. It's why so few military females see advancement to the highest ranks in their careers, they are far more unlikely to see combat experience as they are prohibited from entering these roles. I'm sure historically they'd have sent the women to fight too, if they were ever seen as fit to do so :C

 

[lacktheknack]

The burden of proof is on the accuser, for rape or anything else.

To think otherwise is to be delusional.

 

[gazumped]

a sexism that sees rape as something a victim must prove,

I read a lot of feminist articles and blogs and whatnot, but I've never heard it come up as an issue that evidence has to be given to convict someone. I kind of think she was more likely eluding to the far more common complaint that the victims tend to have to prove that they weren't asking for it somehow (sometimes by an immediate and insensitive barrage of questions about what they were wearing and similar), which is actually a problem that women AND men who are raped suffer.

The point that I was trying to make was that if the patriarchy truly did exist the big bad men in charge wouldn't be sending other men to die.

Patriarchy doesn't mean hating women and wishing they were dead, it means that men are in authority and act as the guardians of society, which is why the men go out and fight and the women must stay at home.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

]

If you want to find intelligence , do NOT look to comment sections.

People get angry and say before they think, often trying to solve an issue by creating all kinds of new problems.

OT: No. We shouldn't make exceptions to our justice system. Not now, not ever.

 

[catalyst8]

Right then. So I was recently reading an article titled, 5 Ways Modern Men are Trained to Hate Women http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html.

Oh, it's from Cracked, no more need be said; possibly one of the most racist & sexist publications I can think of.

Seriously? I know it's run mostly by white guys in their 20-30's, but it never struck me as particularly offensive to anyone (except perhaps people who don't like 80's cartoons). This article basically says guys are universally discriminatory monsters, who can only think about women in terms of sex because it's hard-wired into us, so we can never get better. Which article/website are you reading?

I used to read Cracked in the 80s, so subscribed to their site. Over the few months I was a member I lost count of the number of times they claimed that the French are inveterate cowards, or any number of offensive racial slurs. Similarly with sexist slurs & stereotypes, as you yourself have pointed out in your above-quoted post 'guys are universally discriminatory monsters'. The people at Cracked are nasty pieces of work, trying to disguise their bigotry as humour. If that's what makes you laugh then fair enough, but don't pretend it's anything other than it is.

 

[MrTub]

snip

I just want to point out that I have no problem getting it up while drunk, but I guess different people may have different reaction (I believe its called whisky dick [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whisky%20dick])