PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[Rancid0ffspring]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

Sony bragged about OtherOS in press releases about being about to have a office computer in your game system.

Yup, may well have...

I refer you again to the Terms of Service that you didn't read.

Again, not a marketted feature in any paraphernalia.

It is marketed if it's a press release for game sites brags about how your game console can be used as a home office computer. That's a form of marketing since gamers read that and it gives them a reason to buy it. I'm not defending sony nor geohot, but are in the wrong.

Game sites bragging that it is capable of doing something is not a marketed feature. That's as good as a website saying the PS3 slim could run PS2 games and then saying well it was a feature that has been marketed just to discover the console doesn't have the architecture. Just because a third party says so doesn't make it an official promoted feature of the User end product.

They said running another OS was one of the capabilities of the console.... but again they state in their ToS that they can modify the software capabilities of the console at any time. Usually adding to its features. With the Other OS they decided to remove it because it had become a security concern for the console as a whole.

You will be very hard pressed to find anything in writing by SCE saying that it was capable of running another OS.

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

There is no protagonist in this shitstorm. Both have their agendas, and neither are doing it for anybody other than themselves.

Sony, however, is the lesser of the two evils. Controlling its interests is exactly what it should be doing. Removing Other OS was an unnecessary move, but the attempts made by this self righteous sod to return them by circumventing the console's security altogether, and distributing those tools to others, makes him an accessory to piracy.

I'm with Sony on this one.

I agree.

Geoblokey claims to not condone piracy... fair enough.

But by making this code available he has actively supported it.

I'm speculating here but maybe the removal of the Other OS was to fight piracy. Does anyone actually know the legit reason they removed it other than the vague 'security concerns' statement?

 

[Arehexes]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

Sony bragged about OtherOS in press releases about being about to have a office computer in your game system.

Yup, may well have...

I refer you again to the Terms of Service that you didn't read.

Again, not a marketted feature in any paraphernalia.

It is marketed if it's a press release for game sites brags about how your game console can be used as a home office computer. That's a form of marketing since gamers read that and it gives them a reason to buy it. I'm not defending sony nor geohot, but are in the wrong.

Game sites bragging that it is capable of doing something is not a marketed feature. That's as good as a website saying the PS3 slim could run PS2 games and then saying well it was a feature that has been marketed just to discover the console doesn't have the architecture. Just because a third party says so doesn't make it an official promoted feature of the User end product.

They said running another OS was one of the capabilities of the console.... but again they state in their ToS that they can modify the software capabilities of the console at any time. Usually adding to its features. With the Other OS they decided to remove it because it had become a security concern for the console as a whole.

You will be very hard pressed to find anything in writing by SCE saying that it was capable of running another OS.

But game sites were not bragging, Sony was. The reports were from what Sony told them, I only said that game sites talking about what Sony said is advertising. And I know sony was selling Yellow Dog Linux for ps2 (and I think PS3 at one point). But yeah a game site reporting what a company said(which is what sony did) not the same as a rumor mill site saying "hey the 3DS can cure cancer".

EDIT:On a note I'm not on either side, since both are being stupid.

GeoHot:He says he doesn't support Piracy but releases the master keys to pirate games with when making custom Firmware.

Sony:Treating us like we can't tool with our hardware

I want a happy middle, Sony give out a homebrew dev kit. We can tool with the system and make homebrew in their controlled OS. That way we have homebrew freedom and no pirating, and if anyone complains we shun them.

 

[JonnWood]

I want a happy middle, Sony give out a homebrew dev kit. We can tool with the system and make homebrew in their controlled OS. That way we have homebrew freedom and no pirating, and if anyone complains we shun them.

I doubt the people who make homebrew would be able to afford a dev kit. Or be willing to pay for it. And there'd doubtless be people still chafing at the bit about how Sony restricts them.

they took it away and thats what made him do this...

They didn't "make" him do anything. He chose to hack the PS3, he chose to publicize it, and unless he's staggeringly naive, he knew pirates would be yapping at the heels of the homebrew crowd.

it's not the other way around. Or in your words: He lost the functionality and that made him misbehave in Sony's view (not the law just Sony's)

Who says the law doesn't agree? Oh, right, it hasn't been determined yet.

To the people saying he shouldn't have made it public i ask why? All he did was help other people install linux on their ps3 so yea then people choose to use that to pirate games which isn't his fault

If I start handing out lockpicks and instructions for their use on a street corner, I know there's a pretty good chance someone's going to use them for something wrong, regardless of my intentions. With cracking for homebrew, piracy is almost inevitable one its publicized.

People whining about online multiplayer: Sony still owns PSN and there are terms of service that state you can't cheat or use a modified console. so people using modded consoles will get banned from PSN

And in the meantime, the base problem still exists, there are workarounds, and it still disrupts people's enjoyment of the game.

Console makers need to start treating their devices as PCs.

You mean that device with crashes, frequent patches, more pirated games than any other, a high cost to entry for gaming, and Windows?

 

[Ddgafd]

What's the point of hacking your console anyway?

"I wanna run Linux and play Mario on my PS3, durr."

Guess what genius, you can do all that and more on a computer.

 

[ImprovizoR]

What's the point of hacking your console anyway?

"I wanna run Linux and play Mario on my PS3, durr."

Guess what genius, you can do all that and more on a computer.

Yes you can but you have the right to do it on your PS3 as well. That's what this is about - your rights to use your property the way you want too because you payed for it. What the fuck happened to this world? Why are you letting these rich bastards control everything you own?

 

[DVS Storm]

That sounds like a failing of PSN. Perhaps if Sony invested some of that nearly Billion dollar profit from last year [http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/29/sony-posts-852m-profit-ps3-pc-sales-up/] toward improving the PSN network.... Oh who am I kidding?

I actually wonder the same thing right now.

 

[Arehexes]

I want a happy middle, Sony give out a homebrew dev kit. We can tool with the system and make homebrew in their controlled OS. That way we have homebrew freedom and no pirating, and if anyone complains we shun them.

I doubt the people who make homebrew would be able to afford a dev kit. Or be willing to pay for it. And there'd doubtless be people still chafing at the bit about how Sony restricts them.

they took it away and thats what made him do this...

They didn't "make" him do anything. He chose to hack the PS3, he chose to publicize it, and unless he's staggeringly naive, he knew pirates would be yapping at the heels of the homebrew crowd.

it's not the other way around. Or in your words: He lost the functionality and that made him misbehave in Sony's view (not the law just Sony's)

Who says the law doesn't agree? Oh, right, it hasn't been determined yet.

To the people saying he shouldn't have made it public i ask why? All he did was help other people install linux on their ps3 so yea then people choose to use that to pirate games which isn't his fault

If I start handing out lockpicks and instructions for their use on a street corner, I know there's a pretty good chance someone's going to use them for something wrong, regardless of my intentions. With cracking for homebrew, piracy is almost inevitable one its publicized.

People whining about online multiplayer: Sony still owns PSN and there are terms of service that state you can't cheat or use a modified console. so people using modded consoles will get banned from PSN

And in the meantime, the base problem still exists, there are workarounds, and it still disrupts people's enjoyment of the game.

Console makers need to start treating their devices as PCs.

You mean that device with crashes, frequent patches, more pirated games than any other, a high cost to entry for gaming, and Windows?

I was suggesting sony gives it out for free, you know a stripped down version of the dev kit.

 

[JonnWood]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Uh, no they have no right to be playing SMAS on their PS3. No matter if the game is fun, they pirated the game and hacked the console? Thats like double the offense.

If someone pirates a game and says they're having "fun" doesn't suddenly pardon them.

unless they purchased a copy of SMAS then modified it to work for their console (or modified the console to play the disk). then all of the software is purchased legally and i don't see a problem with it

Because you didn't buy SMAS for the PS3. You bought it for the SNES. That's like saying one should be able to get Blade Runner in Blu-Ray because you bought it on Betamax.

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

The jailbreaking of the iPod disagrees with you.

The jailbreaking of the iPod doesn't result in games being stoled from the app store. It does, however, result in piracy.

 

[Paragon Fury]

1: Basis of his case is flawed. In most Western countries "buying" a system does not mean you own it; the PS3 is still Sony's system, you're just allowed to use it until they catch you doing something not-above-board with it, at which point they are allowed to stop you or sue you. Also, he might not "support" piracy, but his actions directly support and enable it, and his attitude is not that of a person out to see what the system can do, but rather one of someone who will blatantly exploit the works of others for own profit as soon as their backs are turned?

2: Is there a "Donate to Sony" option, so that this man's chances of winning go down further down the drain? Maybe the shock of seeing Sony's own legal team get a big help from customers who think he is bullshit we be enough of a wake-up call.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Uh, no they have no right to be playing SMAS on their PS3. No matter if the game is fun, they pirated the game and hacked the console? Thats like double the offense.

If someone pirates a game and says they're having "fun" doesn't suddenly pardon them.

The game is so old now though, if you bought it at a pawn shop the only one getting money would be the pawn store owner, the companies would no longer be getting the money 9I mean, that's the problem isn't it? With piracy for new things, the creators, like apple or microsoft, or Gearbox or whoever don't get their money?) and they bought it so I think they have every right to hack their PS3, also Hack is such a strong word, like rats, or ****

Alright, well I guess it will suck once they close down PSN due to too many pirates and hackers. But hey, they're having fun and they bought their ps3 so it should be perfectly fine...

How about instead of fighting this kid they let him do what he wants/work with him so that he can still hack the ps3 but help stop cheating and piracy

Because if he works for them, they need to bow to his ever will or else he literally has insider information on SONY and can rip their shit apart?

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here.

What if Sony Re-added the ability for their PS3 to have Other OS. It is YOUR responsibility to install the OS> If it fucks with your PS3, you're screwed, but the ability to have it is there.

I think it's the fact that we're talking about the root key here. It's over kill. Yeah, you probably can't turn on Other OS without it, but you can do anything you want with it as well.

I've been on the fence, this entire argument, until I realized there should be a third stance:

Geohotz, don't ask for trouble ans stir shit by giving EVERYONE the means to unlock the PS3 and make it your *****. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, but you were looking for trouble and you HAD to see this coming.

SONY, if people want Other OS, fucking great, let them. Open up the ability to add that feature, but make it the people's responsibility. if it destroys their PS3, tough shit. If they use it to hack, ban them on the PSN. If people want to have Other OS, great, just don't use it to pirate.

Does that sound like a decent compromise? Why must there are way be one person losing and one person winning?

Disclaimer: I don't want people thrashing my opinion or saying "lol, noob". Constructive criticisms. YES I know why Geo is fighting this, you should be able to do what you want with YOUR property. I get that. I just have a problem with him basically tossing out the key to the whole system without blinking twice. Yes, SONY shouldn't be such uptight douche bags, but lets see if there's a compromise instead of arguing the same three point of the same two positions for another 12 pages.

 

[fordneagles]

On the one hand, I think good on him, it's his console, he should do what he wants with it and all that stuff.

On the other hand, if he does win, it'll set a (probably) dangerous legal precedent, and who knows what the consequences of that will be.

On the other, other hand, I don't like how strictly industries like this control their stuff. Maybe a more open market would encourage more competition, more innovation, would bring the price of full priced games to less than a hundred sodding Australian dollars (though I doubt it ).

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

 

[drunken_munki]

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

Yeah but what if they change the rules after you bought it. LOL.

Then they send you another agreement update...

Do you get your money back if you don't agree to the update?

 

[xXDeMoNiCXx]

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

We bought it, it's our property, the rules are ours to make. Don't like it? Well, nothing you can do.

Go Geohot!

 

[LtWiesel]

I'm pretty much hoping for something like this...^^


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xywqv1cDH8

 

[ProGrasTiNation]

Glad to hear he got the funds,i will be looking forward to supporting him when he needs it in the future.
I own my ps3 & no one can tell me different,EULAs dont mean jack & MW2 was hacked from day one,,,you have to be host to mess with the room,,& I.W have no sever side detection like treyarch.

 

[Ddgafd]

What's the point of hacking your console anyway?

"I wanna run Linux and play Mario on my PS3, durr."

Guess what genius, you can do all that and more on a computer.

Yes you can but you have the right to do it on your PS3 as well. That's what this is about - your rights to use your property the way you want too because you payed for it. What the fuck happened to this world? Why are you letting these rich bastards control everything you own?

To be honest, I don't care. Whatever happens I'll find a way to deal with it. As for everyone else, they can do their own thing, whatever it may be. I am commenting on the issue by asking the simple question of why? Why would you need to mod your console in any way, other than to gain unfair advantages? Aren't you people happy with what you bought?

 

[AdumbroDeus]

There is no protagonist in this shitstorm. Both have their agendas, and neither are doing it for anybody other than themselves.

Sony, however, is the lesser of the two evils. Controlling its interests is exactly what it should be doing. Removing Other OS was an unnecessary move, but the attempts made by this self righteous sod to return them by circumventing the console's security altogether, and distributing those tools to others, makes him an accessory to piracy.

I'm with Sony on this one.

I agree.

Geoblokey claims to not condone piracy... fair enough.

But by making this code available he has actively supported it.

I'm speculating here but maybe the removal of the Other OS was to fight piracy. Does anyone actually know the legit reason they removed it other than the vague 'security concerns' statement?

They suspected it would cause piracy, that's why it was disabled.


The thing is, pirates may be able to use his code, but don't sex offenders use the internet? Don't people downloading illegal games and movies use torrents? Don't Murderers use kitchen knives?

Does that make them morally impermissible to create?