PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[thunderbug]

as much as i love sony, and i do like sony, i hope the guy wins. if he dosnt win next it will be people getting sued for letting there console or eletronic device get dustier than the EULA says it should be.

 

[ZombieGenesis]

Be great if he wins.

At least it would be if people wouldn't then exploit the new laws and probably bankrupt a few companies. Sadly, people are assholes. Sony realises this so they DO try and exert unreasonable amounts of control.

But I also agree with Geohot, once you own something, it's yours to do with as you please (bear in mind, making a ps3 hack/pirate WORTHY is not illegal- its pirating a game that's the illegal part).

 

[Retosa]

Oh yes, of course. We don't own the SOFTWARE so we can't BREAK FREE of the software. Really now. No, people shouldn't have to worry about whether they own the software or not. I can go fuck with Windows code however I want. They aren't going to say I can't update Windows, and they're not going to say I can't use my PC anymore. Nor are they going to try to sue me. They'll try to sue me if I make Windows free to people and they catch me. But Geohot didn't make anything free to anyone. He opened the floodgate. The pirates started making shit free. Go after the pirates, not this guy.

Actually, the Windows EULA strictly forbids you to modify the code to Windows.

On a purely technical level, Microsoft could sue you just for using something like UXTheme patcher because it modifies the code. Since they make a ton of money from people who buy Windows, they just don't care about those who pirate it (other than for the occasional public hanging).

Yeah, but the EULA in Microsoft's case is more to say "Our Tech support isn't going to do anything to help you if you fuck up your copy of Windows by modifying the code." Yeah, they do the occasional crucifixion of someone who pirates Windows. But hey, they're stealing M$'s business, so I can understand that. What Sony is doing isn't even about Piracy, as many people have pointed out. It's about control, because the company is insecure and needs to have complete control of everything with their name on it. This just isn't right.

Microsoft won't actually attack people who modify their OS, as shown by many people posting different builds of the Windows XP ISO's that are gutted, and/or have added software/service packs on them to make reinstalling more convenient. As long as they get their money from people paying for their OS, they really don't care as far as I can tell. Maybe I've just missed the news about them going after people modifying the OS, but I haven't seen it.

Think your not making a clear but depressing separation of what is the morality and legality of situation Goehot has illegal modified software he does not have the rights too then released that onto the wide web. If you think this is wrong look to change software copy right laws Sony is acting with in the boundaries of the law to protect there IP which the copyrighted and licensed to all PS3 users. If don't like this that is unfortunate but still the law.

And that's the whole point. IP in general is an absolute farce. The idea that we don't own a system we bought with our own money is a farce. We don't sign a contract leasing our system when we buy it. We 'sign' when we 'accept' the EULA. AKA after we've made the purchase and brought it home. When leasing anything, you are given defined limits on what you can and can't do, and there are certain rights and protections that you have. None of these rules apply to a gaming console. They want to be able to 'sell' the console as though it's sold, while keeping all the control that a lease offers. Yeah, no, not interested in that.

There's a reason people support him, because we're tired of the farcical dealings with the gaming conglomerate. Too many people just accept the current rules like they are the way things SHOULD be, and say that's that. "Current laws state that this should be how things are run", they say, that means Sony is within its rights. Nevermind the fact that THEY, as well as the other consumer raping lobbyist groups, pushed these laws and rules into place SO they could do this shit. Everyone seems to ignore that part. If the Law is unjust and caters to the whims of the companies, the consumers should fight it to make the law just and fair.

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Sony is not being an ass, it's protecting the rules on which they are allowed to put up. What you just said is completely stupid, "it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it". This applies to everything, you can't just say, "I bought the car and because I bought it I don't want to make payments on it or spend the money to get it fixed." This applies to everything and anything big like that.

OT: Geohot is just a cockroach, no matter how much money he gets Sony is a HUGE company and is going to win this battle. It's going to be a cat and mouse game like the Xbox sure, but in every court case, Sony will win, they are just the bigger and better company.

Are you fucking kidding me? You're saying that "I bought a car and now I don't want to make payments on it" is a justifiable comparison to "I paid for my console in full and now I want to do whatever the fuck I want to it"? No, it doesn't work like that, that's a fallacy. A more suitable example would be "I bought my car, and want to make some changes to the engine and the car's internal computer systems, knowing fully that I'm voiding the car's warranty. But it's what I want to do. I know if I fuck it up I have to buy a new one and I'm alright with that." Your comparison is completely flawed, and is misleading.

No, just no. Why should we support a company that has treated consumers like crap for years, and is continually worsening their product? I'm sure there are people out there that you describe, but they are NOT the majority. And your own argument proves something; that no matter what, that person doesn't want to pay for the games and will do everything in their power NOT to. So will they buy the games? Chances are, most of those people won't, they'll stick to whatever free crap they can get their hands on it. So their sales were never guaranteed, and therefore while they don't help the industry, it's not a big loss.

So why can't they stick to their free crap?

Look, I'm all for consumer rights, but the gaming industry has been nothing but gentlemanly if you consider them in relation to every other player in the entertainment industry. Music, movies, even pornography have come together and formed extremely hostile anti-consumer powerhouses ( RIAA, MPAA ). I remember reading somewhere that last year over 100,000 file sharers were quietly dragged into court ( mostly by pornography distributors ). Not distributors. Individuals. End users. These guys have formed powerful lobbyist special interest groups in Washington and around the world propagating their agenda through government ( at least twice have attempted to force the government to cease federal funding and support for educational institutes who refuse to allow them to infiltrate their campus networks with invasive software and to actively prosecute individual students ). They drag defense lawyers into court and sue them on grounds of obstruction of justice. What else have they done? Well, they've hired and setup organizations to actually bait and attack consumers ( Media Defenders is known to use DDOS and honey pot tactics ). The things they do ( attempted to remove consumer right to make a backup copy of any media they own, continual revisions to DMCA ) really makes Sony's attempts to secure their system, through the letter of the law and not outside "solutions," pale in comparison.

Right now, in comparison, the gaming industry is hardly hostile. Their efforts so far amount to a bunch of whining and in terms of hostility? Almost nonexistent. You guys think the gaming industry is evil and actively trying to punish you now? Oh, it could get worse, a lot worse. I would much rather give the gaming industry this victory than see the alternative.

And you know what? Its easy for you to spout what you do if you are a non-producing member of society. I don't know. But let's say you are developing new products. Would you not want to defend those products?

The bottom line is people have a right to protect their work. The solution to piracy requires compromise. I'm sure if it helps protect their pocket lining companies will be more than happy to make some concessions. "The jaded consumer," I'm not so certain. There are tons of ways GeoHot could've handled this better, for example, contacting Sony and not releasing a juvenile rap video on YouTube. Just saying "I don't condone piracy" is in no way, shape or form a substitute for compromise. GeoHot doesn't care for compromise. He just wants to do whatever the fuck he wants to do.

I guess this is more directed at GeoHot than anybody else, but here are some words from one of your contemporaries, and a fellow hacker, Erik Naggum. Freedom is not defined as doing whatever the fuck you want to do, freedom is defined as the maximum accepted deviation from the socially accepted norm. No society will give you "freedom."

Yeah, and like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft haven't sued their customers for ridiculous things. Fan games and fan projects, Pokemon being discussed on a forum with screenshots of the japanese game before it's released in NA. Fan movies, etc. Instead of getting sued all the time, we get bullshit DRM that rootkits our computers, among other things. Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo are all abusing the laws and rules that were created by the RIAA/MPAA's pressure. And honestly, the gaming industry has prevented usable backups from being created since even the Playstation. Hell, even as far back as the Nintendo or before then. It's not like cartridge backup modules were easy to come by at any point in time. They are doing just as much to harm consumers as anyone else. Price fixing, DRM, abusing 'IP' laws to say that consumers don't own their gaming consoles.

I will agree with you that Geohot could have handled the situation better. But I have to say, Sony can't be reasoned with. They removed Other OS very quickly, and were never planning to bring it back. They also removed backwards compatibility. All in the name of 'protecting their IP' and 'combating piracy'. If they don't like what you do with their system, they gut it. And they've proven it time and time again.

The industry may not be as evil as it could be, but that's just a blanket statement. You could say "that guy just murdered those people... But at least he didn't rape them before he did it. He's not as evil as he could be." or "That guy just robbed the convenience store... But at least he didn't shoot the clerk. He's not as evil as he could be." In the end, it becomes a statement about how BAD the other industries are, not how GOOD the gaming industry is. What is being done is wrong, and the fact that so many people are convinced Sony is just "protecting itself" is proof of how badly brainwashed we've become.

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Sony is not being an ass, it's protecting the rules on which they are allowed to put up. What you just said is completely stupid, "it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it". This applies to everything, you can't just say, "I bought the car and because I bought it I don't want to make payments on it or spend the money to get it fixed." This applies to everything and anything big like that.

OT: Geohot is just a cockroach, no matter how much money he gets Sony is a HUGE company and is going to win this battle. It's going to be a cat and mouse game like the Xbox sure, but in every court case, Sony will win, they are just the bigger and better company.

What you said was down right stupid as well, I said after you buy it, meaning pay off all payments so it's completely yours, also you don't have to pay car insurance on a car, some people buy things just for the sake of buying things, like say a trophy, make your house look nicer.

 

[Mcface]

"Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?"

sums everything up nicely.

 

[Mcface]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

Sony is not being an ass, it's protecting the rules on which they are allowed to put up. What you just said is completely stupid, "it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it". This applies to everything, you can't just say, "I bought the car and because I bought it I don't want to make payments on it or spend the money to get it fixed." This applies to everything and anything big like that.

OT: Geohot is just a cockroach, no matter how much money he gets Sony is a HUGE company and is going to win this battle. It's going to be a cat and mouse game like the Xbox sure, but in every court case, Sony will win, they are just the bigger and better company.

uh no.
Its like a car company suing me for changing the paint color, or adding different tires to it AFTER i bought it. It's not right.

 

[bam13302]

I support what he is doing (i personally dont own or care about the ps3, but if microsoft started preventing me from doing things on my comptuer I would flip out, so go get'em, i know this isnt the perfet analogy, if they did that i would just install linux, and once again, i have that option, and the PS3 is just getting that option)

Spoiler: original rant

sounds good, if he looses, its not going to stop people from hacking, and if he wins it wont be the end of video games, honestly, i just saw consoles as another layer of DRM and control on the consumer, im not a fan of hackers in general, but DRM is just as bad, especially when it interferes with what i do in singleplayer, hackers cant screw up single player, DRM can

 

[RyanKaufman]

If a hacker wins in court I've lost all faith in humanity.

 

[RyanKaufman]

[quote="Mcface" post="7.266046.10172502
uh no.
Its like a car company suing me for changing the paint color, or adding different tires to it AFTER i bought it. It's not right.[/quote]

You have to realize it would be like making your Mustang go 5,000 miles per hour. Everyone else on the road with you would complain you're a gigantic safety hazard. Paint job is like painting my Ps3, they couldn't sue about that.

 

[AsianMafiaSin]

If a hacker wins in court I've lost all faith in humanity.

I think that's an oversimplification but believe what you do.
When the verdict is announced there'll be an update right?

 

[RyanKaufman]

If a hacker wins in court I've lost all faith in humanity.

I think that's an oversimplification but believe what you do.
When the verdict is announced there'll be an update right?

I don't see how but ok.
And I would hope so. You never know though.

 

[ionveau]

If a hacker wins in court I've lost all faith in humanity.

Humanity should be ruled by the top 1% that have the right to do ANYHING they want to you and your family, If this man can stand and defend himself against these Gods among man then the whole system is doomed.

I bet they bribed the judge so im sleeping happy dont worry we pests will never be able to go against these Gods among man dont be silly.

 

[Havoc Himself]

I am so rooting for Geohotz on this one, It is our right to mess up our stuff however we want and in this case Sony really doesn't have a case. If I want to mod my computer so that I can play a PS3 game then I think I should be able to do that. Provided I paid for both the software and the computer. So Go Geohotz! Bring those big wigs down a few notches.

 

[Torrasque]

Props to him, I'm glad someone is using their internet fame for a good cause instead of boosting their own ego. [http://www.worldofathene.com/records.php]
I really hope he wins his case, because Sony does enough of their own legally "questionable" activities that they never have to answer for.
lol @ getting his money so fast though.

 

[Firia]

I haven't been following the GeoHot thing, save for a couple of articles. I read that he cracked the PS3 root key then posted it online; I read that he did a rap; I read this. I essentially know very little about the situation. However, it would seem to me, that the case against GeoHot is not that he accessed his ps3. It's that he posted the root key online, enabling millions others untold hacking access.

Now, I'm not saying accessing your ps3 is wrong. I support that Geo wants to get into the guts of his machine. If I knew how, I'd probably do it to enable function of certain video codecs for some anime I like to watch. What I'm saying is that a fairly clean community of online gaming could suddenly pull a tailspin, and turn into a hacking crapstorm after this.

That said; I do not support the lawsuit on Geohot. Not until DAMAGES can be PROVEN. I also agree with what he said about Linux support. I didn't use it, but I know people that did. They are pissed.

 

[Bigsmith]

The way I see this is like you getting sued by Microsoft for installing Linux on a computer that came with vista/ win7.

After some one has bought a console they should be allowed to do what they like to the hard drive. At the end of the day (say if I'm wrong) wasn't the PS3 advertised for such things to be allowed to be done to it? only for it be removed after purchase.

If what I've said was right then it's a bit like buying a game for the ending only to have the ending removed and the only way to get it is to hack the game.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Personally I'm always in favour of people funding an unfair legal battle, it angers me no end when corporations can just batter people out of the legal system thru brute financial force, it happens a lot in libel and slander cases in the media, a newspaper prints a load of bullshit, the person insulted complains, the paper laughs in their face, they go to court, the paper drags out the case until the individual is forced to give up the fight thru lack of money.

I'd suggest the big fallout from this may be far more expensive consoles in the next generation, with less emphasis on selling them at a loss, to claw back money thru licencing the game sales.

 

[Project_Xii]

I don't support him, and I abhor hackers...



... but I can't deny I'm interested to see where this is going. If this hacker nerd with a skewed belief of ownership and Sony with their questionable control issues want to duel to the death in a Spartacus-like court arena... well hell, where's the popcorn?

 

[standokan]

Kinda funny but I don't think him winning will do any good.