Psychology Study Blames Games for Aggressive Behavior

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Wintermoot

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Aug 20, 2009
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wasn't the opposite shown true a few month,s ago?
PS maybe he should show another control group some violent movies (you know like Saw) and then do the picture test.
 

Meric

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Jul 2, 2008
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This article and comments section makes psychologists cry. please research how experiments are performed before attempting to critique one.

Bartholow published an almost identical/similar study back in 2006 if anyone wants a snap-shot of what the new one might read like

http://web.missouri.edu/bartholowb/pdfs/BartBushSestJESP2006.pdf


- A Psychologist
 

KezzieZ

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Sep 20, 2010
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True enough. News has an awful trend of being sensationalist on either side.

I have to admit that isn't very fair, particularly since games are making new ground regardless (since the NEA backs some games as art-worthy and Australia might have that new added rating some day).
 

Phyroxis

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Apr 18, 2008
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Ace IV said:
Phyroxis said:
Causality may be questionable, but there certainly is a correlation.
Check my link again, and read Myth #5.
That does not disprove my assertion. All it said is that correlational studies provide opportunity for things to be disproven. This is true. But never will correlational design establish clear causality. You can make your case stronger and stronger but correlation can never say A => B only A is very, very likely to contribute to the occurrence of B.

Not to mention that "Myth" (which, contrary to the format of that post, is not actually proven a myth. Nor is the subsequent "fact" an actual fact rather than an opinion) is a trick some scientists use to make themselves feel better about the fact they can't draw causality (for whatever reason; human factors, design limitations) and that their field, as a result, is only considered "soft" science in the eyes of many.

And, as a note, I've already read many of Anderson's (and to a lesser extent, Bushman and Gentile) studies and they range from being well-designed to dangerously over-assertive in their claims. I take everything Anderson says with a huge grain of salt as he has shown his axe on a number of occasions. For example: http://videogames.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=009291 and his direct quote: "This relation between media violence and aggressive behavior is causal."

Causal is: kid plays video game, kid goes and aggressess. Not one study has yet been able to show that direct effect, why? Because you can't do it ethically. Sure, you can use a proxy (press a button, and it'll "hurt" someone you don't see) but then you lose quite a bit of external validity and, subsequently, the right to generalize in the way that Anderson does.
 

Magicman10893

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Aug 3, 2009
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Considering that the average highschool student has to sit through drivers ed, where they show you extremely graphic videos and pictures of dead people in car accidents as a scare tactic to discourage you from texting while driving and to always wear your seat belt, I think the picture of a guy with a gun in his mouth is A LOT less frightening when compared to the picture I saw of a guy that was RIPPED in half with his crotch almost completely sheared off from road rash. I think that desensitized me enough that when I got into a car crash and saw the inside of my elbow and was bleeding everywhere, I was able to make jokes on the long and horrendous car ride to the hospital.
 

Craazhy

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Aug 22, 2009
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The minute I saw this I thought "Fuck off." to whoever conducted the study.

Touche, whoever conducted the study.


However, obviously people have been overreacting for going on decades about the negative side-effects of video games. Bad people and stupid people were born that way, and will always be that way, whether they grew up playing video games, or were born before they were ever conceived.
 

Osaka117

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Feb 20, 2011
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That so called "study" was so unprofessional that it's not even worth commenting more than one sentence.
 

NaramSuen

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Jun 8, 2010
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Surely all of this aggressive behaviour must be manifesting itself in out of control record crime rates, right? No wait, the FBI just released its preliminary report which states that violent crime is at a 40 year low and dropped more than 5% last year. Well what about Japan, they play a lot of video games, no their crime rate is one of the lowest in the world. I suggest that we blame aggressive behaviour on comic books or heavy metal music again, I did not get enough of that the first time around.
 

Phyroxis

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Apr 18, 2008
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Moromillas said:
Source: Missouri University said:
During the study, 70 young adult participants were randomly assigned to play either...
This is where I stopped reading.

Even if this pseudo-science did hold weight, which it doesn't, it's hard to take seriously a study that has a test pool with a grand total of... 70 people... Not 70 thousand, not even 7 thousand.... 70! That's the equivalent of me buying two pieces of fruit, and then amusing 50% of all fruit isn't ripe, should one of them not be. And, people are supposed to take this seriously?
Absolutely you can take this seriously. Should you instantly believe it? No, but that doesn't mean its pseudo-science or that it carries no weight. Science is all about testing and evaluating claims in an empirical way. To be able to publish in a scientific journal, these authors had to have a well founded study with plausible design and reasonable conclusions. None of that could have taken place with an inadequate subject pool, or sample size. At the very base of it, they can't say "statistically significant" (that is, they can't say there was an effect) without a certain minimum sample. Well, they could say it, but they wouldn't get published and, of course, wouldn't be here for us to discuss.

Statistical significance can, in many cases, be achieved with a sample size of 45. In fact, most behavioral studies you hear about have a sample size less than 100 and they are strong enough to generalize out. More reading here on sampling: (PDF link [http://www.stat.uiowa.edu/techrep/tr303.pdf])

Good that your BS detector was on, it just beeped in the wrong place. You should be less concerned about the sample size (and for a study like this, 70 is well above the minimum) and more concerned about the design and conclusions.
 

thepyrethatburns

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Sep 22, 2010
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This article illustrates one of the primary problems with the Escapist.

Every time Extra Credits show how games can affect a person positively, it is immediately taken as the truth and a brilliant one at that.

Every time a psychology study comes out that links violent gaming with heightened agression (which, by the way, is not the same as violence.), unprofessional articles are written and everyone gets defensive.

It's a two-way street. Either we accept that gaming can have no possible effect on our psyche or we accept that, as games can elevate us, they can also lower us.
 

Jarvaelison

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Mar 30, 2010
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The main issue I have with this video is the narrator's opening line that states "scientists have known for years that playing violent video games causes players to be more aggresive" - which I believe is not a complete fallacy. Instead I believe that a lot of these studies are just going about their investigation from the wrong perspective. It seems as if they all just want to find an excuse to brand "violent" video games as trash.

I believe that when experimenters study "violent" video games the games they deem "violent" tend to be very competetive in nature. Whether it's Call of Duty or Mortal Kombat and it's this competition that elicits an aggresive response. When you're playing a competitive game you are playing to win, not to lose. That is the nature of competition and that's why a person playing a game has perceived increases in aggression levels. Not because it's violent but because it's competitive.

This is just speculation on my part though =P

The thing is, violent games aren't the only games that are competitive. I'm not sure how many studies, if any, look at the issue from this angle but I would like to see them. If anyone knows of a study like this please, post a link. I'd appreciate it.
 

Nouw

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I may be desensitized to virtual violence but that doesn't mean if someone bursts into my room and saws my brother in half I'd feel entertained.
 

Lovesfool

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Jan 28, 2009
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I don't know if I find this funny, stupid, sad or frustrating.

I guess if you set a goal, if you know the result you want to have beforehand, you can conduct some form of research to "prove" it. That stands for pro-gaming studies too.

It's just that in this case, it seems like the study is done in a very stupid way. Like having someone that doesn't know how to read to conduct a study in the hidden meanings and writing techniques of Homer's epics in ancient Greek text...

By the way, I think I played some Zelda last week. Does that mean I will most probably go on a killing rampage later this afternoon?
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Eri said:
***** please. De-sensitized to virtual violence is not the same thing as being de-sensitized to real life violence. Just ask Penn and Teller.
^This. Besides, after playing violent videogames since I was 9 (22 now), I'm still not desensitized even to some virtual violence. It depends on context the violence is in as well. Running over a pedestrian in GTA won't bother me much, but breaking someone's arm as a choice in a game like Mass Effect could make me think twice.

I still very much cringe at pretty much any real world violence, probably even more so than most people and that might even be a result of playing videogames cause I've gotten to know the actions>consequences quite well.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Okay, long post coming, but I recommend people read it. ;)

The problem here is that we're dealing with two opposed positions which are both wrong as the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It's sort of like talking about terrorism, where you have a left winger in his tie dyed shirt talking about civil liberties and human rights, and how all terrorism is either a lie or only brought on the deserving, yadda yadda, and the right winger in his suit talking about doing sweeps through the streets and what amount to mass executions, and of course moderates like myself being lost in the middle between the two sides that both refuse to accept that there is a middle ground because anything in between interferes with the purity of their own beliefs. I get griped at on sites like this one for being some kind of inhumane monster for the most part, and then get called a naive hippy by some of my more conservative relatives and aquaintences, because the solutions I believe aren't quite heavy handed enough.


I use the above example because of both sides being wrong, but having legitimate points, with the truth being somewhere in the middle.


Let me be blunt, "our" side as gamers is by and large wrong about games desensitizing people to violence or making them more receptive to using force and so on. Sources that support "our" beliefs and objectives and frankly quacks in most cases, we just want to believe what they are selling. What's more most nerds know this, even if they have chosen to not put the pieces together.

We've known that violent images can make people deal with violences easier, and render them more willing to commit violent acts. We've known this for DECADES now as there have been all kinds of studies done by the military on the subject. We all know brainwashing, hypnosis, and mental deprogramming are possible. Simple examples are used as parlour tricks by entertainers, and some of us might have even been influanced by them,

You keep showing people images of something, and reinforcing certain behaviors, you WILL condition people in those directions. If you start bringing other factors into the equasion you can even program people. The military and intelligence services experiemented with this kind of thing going back to like the 1930s, hoping to condition soldiers to be better killers and more able to deal with the evils they would need to perform or deal with in war. In fiction even know we see stylized remnants of these early experiments in brainwashing and mental deprogramming, in scenes where you have some guy tied to a chair and being bombarded with violent images and audio propaganda. Real techniques that actually work are a bit more sophisticated than that, but that's the image that has been burned into people's minds from when this kind of thing was outed, and of couse the bottom line has always been that if you condition someone like that, how do you turn it off?... and really there isn't an easy way to do so without another whole battery of brainwashing.

Violent Video games aren't brainwashing, but at a very basic level they, like any media, are going to get people more used to things like violence, and reinforce aggressive behaviors. While noticible on a purely academic level, it's overall menaingless in any reasonable context, as lots of differant kinds of media can be used to achieve the a similar effect. Sustained contact with nothing but ultra violent horror movies, cop shows, or action adventure is going to have a very similar overall impact.

Basically we as gamers have to concede that yes, violent games DO desensitize people to violence and encourage people to be more aggressive.


HOWEVER, where the academic community is dead wrong is in promoting this as a BAD thing. The problem is that you have your hand wringing left wingers who have been singing "take my hand, share the land" as a dominant force within society, who have been trying to present violence as a bad thing, and something to be overcome, or removed from society. It is not, and that's the actual problem in a nutshell. Rather than denying that games make people more receptive to violent and agressive behavior, it's better to just simple take the correct track which is to say "so what?".

Let me be blunt, humanity has survived and become the dominant life form on the planet for a few reasons. One is of course our raw intelligence and self awareness, another is of course an opposable thumb allowing us to use that intelligence to create and use tools, and the final is simply that we are the craziest, most murderous thing in the jungle. Your tie-dyed, hang wringing, limp wristed Baby Boomer hippie... which is still a substantial political force despite the change in apperance, will sit there and prattle on about how wrong it is that humanity is one of the only species that will seriously attack and exterminate itself, yet it's that same aggressive overdrive that has made us what we are, and gotten us to the dominant position where people can munch granola in the dark, and spend time thinking about garbage like this.

Right now I think the "problem" with video games is that they do a lot to undermine the messages of the baby boomers, and basically wind up giving people more normal impulses, in contridiction to the social engineering we've seen going on. With the boomers getting older and finally about to step down for "Generation Y" I think there is increasing concern that their big "social legacy" is going to go nowhere.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying it's a wonderful thing to go shooting each other in the streets, though I'm sure some people on the other side of the equasion would love to claim that. The thing is that violence is something people need to be taught to control, NOT viewed as a trait to overcome. After all violence and aggression are a big part of what it is to be human, we would not be here without them, they are our survival traits. That tenacity is what keeps humans going in the face of aversity. It's important to note that while the craziest, most murderous thing to come crawling out of the primoridial ooze, we're also social animals, and out own social tendencies and desire for order along with the understanding of how it benefits us, helps to keep our baser instincts in line.

It is absolutly ridiculous for anyone to look at today's society and decry how violent and horrible it is. Actually we live at the most peaceful period in human history. There is all kinds of violence throught the second and third world, and tons of crime in the first as well, but compared to the days when we had tribes of barbarians fighting each other every single day? Someone needs to bloody grow up.

If anything, the only reason why things seem more violent right now than they did... oh say 40 years ago, is because we have better information technology. Something happens today and a local town can't just cover it up and consider it a dirty little secret, it goes screaming out accross the information superhighway and we all hear about it. It's not more violence, it's simply increased awareness. What's more improved police techniques mean that things that got filed away get solved, we get from dealing with little mysteries revolving around things thta might have been violent crimes, to situations where we know exatly what happened with far more frequency and everyone hears about it in real time.

I'll also say, that I do not think the non-violent tendencies of the Baby Boomers, and honestly that's who we're dealing with on the "other side" of this... the parents of Generation X, have hardly served us well. some good has come from this, but by and large the lack of violence and warfare has arguably contributed to the current global overpopulation, and prevented us from dealing with the issue of resource depletion. No violence, and free love, means more people. More people means more demand for resources. Even if enough resources can be harvested, the issue of us running out of things like wood, metal, and fuel are present. We're at a point right now where even ZPG (Zero Population Growth) can't stop us, and World War III has become inevitable... and it's going to be a war where eradicating large groups of people is going to be part of the point, because in the end until we obtain more living space, we need to lower our population to the point we can sustain it and embrace ZPG. Nobody wants to be culled, so as a result war is inevitable.

I'm getting pretty far afield here, but I think this is one of the worst times in history for the "peacenink" philsophy to be being prooposed by anyone.

Apologies for my political rant, and hippy comments, I'm tired and could probably have said this better, the basic point here is that while neither side wants to admit it, the truth is in the middle, but nobody wants to see it. Games do a lot of the things being claimed by the opposition, there is nothing magical about them that makes the violent images have any less effect on the human brain that others do. On the other hand, all of those effects are not a big deal. Games do not "brainwash" people, human self control is still intact, if anything the message involved in such games actually channels violent impulses for a reason.

I'll also say the noise blast thing is stupid, one would think the researcher has never heard of Schaetenfreude , or the tendency to take cruel pleasure in the suffering of another. To be honest, humans are actually very receptive to the plight of other humans in serious distress, but a little annoyance here and there is something we can appreciate. Giving someone a shock button, or a noise blast, in what is known to be a controlled situation where nobody is going to get hurt means that nobody is going to hestitate much to mess around. With a competitive game, this is just another form of gambling really, and it hits that button too. Hook the video games up to SAW inspired execution devices and make it so the winner actually brings about the horrible screaming death of the loser... well people are generally going to be a lot less receptive to that even if fairly desensitized and aggressive. Hand me a joy buzzer and I'll shock someone for lulz, hand me a button that slowly crushes someone's head in a vice, and I'm not going to push that button without a bloody good reason and "won the abillity to do so in a video games" is not that reason.
 

rosac

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Sep 13, 2008
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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
EDIT: Also, I found this article terribly nonprofessional. Could you sound any more defensive?
Also what I thought. The guy conducted an experiment and these are his results, they may not be what you want to hear, but it may be true. It may also be false, as has also been proven. So who do you believe more?
 

JediMB

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Oct 25, 2008
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I've played "violent" games since I was 9 years old (in 1993), and I still feel creeped out by violent imagery (ACTUAL violent imagery) in films and the news.
 

lostlambda

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May 19, 2011
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Eri said:
***** please. De-sensitized to virtual violence is not the same thing as being de-sensitized to real life violence. Just ask Penn and Teller.
this is very true I've seen a unedited video of a terrorist bombing on a isrealy bus stop from the 90's and no ammount of Call of Duty will ever de-sensitize me of that experiance
 

danirax

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Jan 11, 2011
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god not again... I think that some one should hire a scientist to say that researching connections between video games and violents causes a sever brain damage which disqualify their opinions, claims and "facts" due brain damage and being emotionally involved.