PvE obselete?

[Decroux]

I am a PvE gamer. I always have been and probably always will be. I don't see the necessity in turning a game into a sport which is what occurs with PvP gaming. I, for one, try to show my personal achievements in games like God of War, Final Fantasy, Diablo (offline) etc and people couldn't care less. They deem it less of a challenge therefore not nearly as superior as being verbally abused in PvP gaming.

Whenever I see people talking about the Halo 3 controvesy, no-one ever seems to mention the plot or the actual story in the single player mode, it all comes down to PVP. Why is this? I don't understand why gaming has been seperated to such an extent where certain types of gaming is frowned upon while others are played to an extreme extent (see World of Warcraft, Counterstrike).

I play World of Warcraft casually, I have 3 characters and they all roleplay. The moment I tell people this, their first question is 'PVP world?' The moment I say no, they're not even slightly interested in what I have to say about my experiences in the game. Do people seriously think they are a 'higher class' of gamer if they're PvP? Because that's all I can sum it down to.

What experiences do you have with this? What is your opinion about PvE versus PvP in gaming?

(To clarify, PvE is Player Vs Environment and PvP is Player Vs Player)

 

[Xalmar]

I have no online, and I've never personally had any interest in online.

As such, games like Halo 3 that slap together a shoddy version of a plot and gameplay, then focus all their attention on the multiplayer, are not games that I enjoy playing. Unfortunately, the trend toward multiplayer and co-op is starting to get more and more common among games, and it almost feels like those who enjoy a good single-player game are being cheated.

This is probably why I enjoyed Bioshock and Mass Effect. There's no multiplayer, so all the writers and programmers can focus on the singleplayer and make it really good.

 

[GothmogII]

Hmm, ignore them? You enjoy RP'ing right? So what that they think like that.

I'm on an RP/PvP realm in WoW...however, that brings it's own set of problems. Mainly being that a lot of players come for the 'mature atmosphere' but don't ever intend to RP. But, I'll put up with that as, have world PvP toggled only enhances the experience for me. And I can ignore the OOC'ers (Out of character players) or report them as I see fit and not feel the least bit guilty, they should have read the rules

 

[SteinFaust]

"unfortunately, i don't give a flying shit about multiplayer, and neither do a lot of people"

single player games have better story and gameplay. most people's idea of PvP is thousands of short bouts of the same ritalin-snorting boomfest anyway.

 

[dukeh016]

You played Diablo offline...extensively?

Sir, I salute you.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

PvE is underrated, with PvP being intolerably overrated. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Decroux]

I couldn't handle the online version of Diablo. It was just so... bland.
Once you started playing it online it was just collecting items, fighting wither other people over gems and runes as they dropped, constantly grinding for the best gears so you can then turn your swords on the person who helped you get the gear. It just bored me. Co-op is livable though, I must say.

I love WoW's RP value. Earthen Ring is a brilliant server and a lot of people use the 'MyRoleplay' addon. I can see how the PvP aspect would enhance roleplaying in some ways, but it would attract even more unwanted attention to the world. Also, I prefer being alive in my roleplays.

 

[Gamer137]

Because PvP gives a game its longgevity(sp?). People prefer playing humans rather then computers. Not to say PvE is boring, it just gets old faster then PvP. But do I hate it when developers are too lazy to make single player good and just focus on multiplayer. I also do not understand why people hate multiplayer only games like Shadowrun. It has one of the best FPSmultiplayer experiences you will find, but people thought $60 was a rip-off for no singleplayer. The world is full of hypocrites I say. They dont pay attention to single-player, but they hate a game that does not have it.

 

[Mythnomer]

I enjoy both PvE and PvP and from my perspective, until enemy AI in games has reached the level where it can quickly react and adapt to your play as well as another player(or better), PvP will typically provide much more enjoyment and replay value (not counting other factors).

Using your WoW example, once you beaten a certain boss or encounter or done the quests in a certain area, there's not much more to gain from it story wise or challenge wise, about the only way to spice it up is try it with another class mabey but your still doing the same stuff. PvP on the other hand, every time to step into the same old tired BG's a different scenario can unfold and the tactics people use in an attempt to best their competition are constantly changing and evolving. If it wasn't for the lackluster attempt at serious PvP in WoW I know large portion of its players, including me, wouldn't have played it for nearly as long as they did or wouldn't still be playing it. Sure it can induce and promote some e-peen waving contests but its not like that behavior isn't prevalant in PvE too, guilds bragging about first kills, people boasting about high scores, etc. etc. its just par for the course.

Basically it comes down to the fact that a lot of people enjoy a good competitive challenge, I mean thats what makes sports so popular really. So whether its a technology issue or just a lack of creativity by game designers when building AI, until there's AI that can provide quality and a variety of challenge on par with other players, expect the trend to continue.

 

[monodiabloloco]

The problem with PvP is the P. No, the second P.
That P is a group very often filled with D. That is: Douches. Said douches can't just play, have fun, give props when they get killed, or just kill you and go on, they have to teabag you, brag about how they are teh awsome n00b killa, and generally piss on the whole fun of it all.
That brings up another beef I have. Why the hell is it so cool to pwn n00bs? You killed the new guy who isn't very good. 'Grats. You are the coolest guy on earth. Seriously, the guy who kills the long time really good players.. that's the guy who really pwns. Saying you pwn n00bs is like saying you can beat 2 year olds at arm wrestling.

 

[Archemetis]

When i couls still afford to play WoW and live at the same time i was situated on an RP-PvP realm called Defias Brotherhood, it's a friendly little server which boasts some tremendous RP and is none too shabby on the PvP front.

That being said i never took part in PvP.
See i joined the server, simply because it was the ones all of my friends went on, i played alliance because that's the faction my friends, i played a Gnome because all of my friends hate them and i love them.

Anyway, I went through the whole time i've been playing (approx 2 years) never once willingly taking part in PvP.
Atleast not the battleground type anyway.
I never found it fun, i like to quest, level up and play alongside buddies, which is why i took so well to PvE when i finally got my first 70.

But unfortunately for my server, RP started to dry up, the PvE guilds were all so far ahead in the content that joining them would have been pointless also i just can't stand grinding "mats" for gear, when i thought the reason i was going to the dungeons was to GET gear.

But it seems these changes came about when the whole idea of making PvP epic gear easier to get.

and i do mean easy, early days of PvP in just before the release of TBC i know a guy who managed to get two grand marshal weapons in the same of four days.

This slowly swept across the server making everyone more competitive and slowly peoples rational thought was consumed by "wel-fare epics"

Then the arena came in, and now everyone is wearing super (borrowing a phrase here) bullshit armour that allows them to squash player like me in a matter of nano-seconds.

But anyway, i'm ranting about how and why i hate the game now.

Anyway, yes, i think that shows that my view is, yes, PvE starting to become some-what obsolete and PvP is the reason.

although that's really only on a server like mine.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

I tend not to play online shooters because the playstyle one must have in a deathmatch is far different from my own.

Take a game like Gears of War. Cover is king, and the idea behind the game is to make slower, but overall more efficient, battlefield progress.

More than half of the people I ran into in Gears online grabbed the shotgun and played it run and gun style. Yes, I could defeat that tactic, but I didn't want to. I wanted to play a cat and mouse, running from cover to cover type of game. And I couldn't online. So screw them.

That said, I love co-op, and non-shooter competitive titles (i.e. fighting games, racing games, etc) are okay. MMOs are just terrible, so we won't touch that can of worms.

- J

 

[Chfanfiction]

I play Guild Wars, in which PvE is pretty much dead but PvP lives on with gimmicks and such. But overall, I like story lines in all games because it adds a sense of immersion that only hardcore players can get from PvP. I can't play most games without getting immersed in them.

 

[clarinetJWD]

I have no online, and I've never personally had any interest in online.

As such, games like Halo 3 that slap together a shoddy version of a plot and gameplay, then focus all their attention on the multiplayer, are not games that I enjoy playing. Unfortunately, the trend toward multiplayer and co-op is starting to get more and more common among games, and it almost feels like those who enjoy a good single-player game are being cheated.

This is probably why I enjoyed Bioshock and Mass Effect. There's no multiplayer, so all the writers and programmers can focus on the singleplayer and make it really good.

Well I was going to respond, but it seems someone else is reading my mind...

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

PvE in WoW is far from underrated. Raiding is a huge part of the endgame-- and people in the high-tier guilds are well-respected (within WoW, of course).

If you roll a character on an RP or PvE server, people on RPPvP or PvP servers automatically assume that you are a pussy. They feel superior because leveling a character on a PvP server is more difficult.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

I have no online, and I've never personally had any interest in online.

As such, games like Halo 3 that slap together a shoddy version of a plot and gameplay, then focus all their attention on the multiplayer, are not games that I enjoy playing. Unfortunately, the trend toward multiplayer and co-op is starting to get more and more common among games, and it almost feels like those who enjoy a good single-player game are being cheated.

This is probably why I enjoyed Bioshock and Mass Effect. There's no multiplayer, so all the writers and programmers can focus on the singleplayer and make it really good.

Well I was going to respond, but it seems someone else is reading my mind...

That goes double for me.

 

[Panayjon]

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/pp_2008-04_guilds.html

From the Warhammer Online website, a production podcast talking about "Social Gaming". After about the halfway point you can stop the video though, since it then goes on to talk about the specifics of their guild system rather than being relevant to this discussion.

As noticed by Mythnomer, that e-peen theory is something that some people can't help but judge themselves on. Whether through single player achievements like the OP suggested such as high scores or even competitive play with other players, there is an inherent desire to win. Not necessarily to be on top or be the very best, but you don't typically go into a game thinking, "Man, I sure hope the boss beats my face in mercilessly and I score 0 points." The extent to which we care about winning varies from person to person.

As far as PvP and verbal abuse... well, some people are tools. It can't be helped. As HSIAMetalKing notes, it really is just straight up more difficult on a PvP server. However, something to note that I'm sure a majority of the PvP supremacist community doesn't realize (at least in terms of WoW) is that its not a matter of being better skilled, just more aware of your surroundings and hiding when that lvl 70 comes around looking for a gank.

To actually answer the original question though, no PvE is not obsolete. Even in the aforementioned Warhammer Online, they're taking great pains to make your PvE experience just as enjoyable. Further, its not as if the list of single player games is drying up at all. Off the top of my head: Force Unleased, Fallout 3, Final Fantasy XIII, Prince of Persia, Fable 2, Mercenaries 2, ect... Only the last two even have multiplayer element and its co-op. Though, I actually think Mercenaries might have PvP but whatever.

 

[derpa]

Hmm, ignore them? You enjoy RP'ing right? So what that they think like that.

I'm on an RP/PvP realm in WoW...however, that brings it's own set of problems. Mainly being that a lot of players come for the 'mature atmosphere' but don't ever intend to RP. But, I'll put up with that as, have world PvP toggled only enhances the experience for me. And I can ignore the OOC'ers (Out of character players) or report them as I see fit and not feel the least bit guilty, they should have read the rules

enter (faceplam)

 

[GothmogII]

Hmm, ignore them? You enjoy RP'ing right? So what that they think like that.

I'm on an RP/PvP realm in WoW...however, that brings it's own set of problems. Mainly being that a lot of players come for the 'mature atmosphere' but don't ever intend to RP. But, I'll put up with that as, have world PvP toggled only enhances the experience for me. And I can ignore the OOC'ers (Out of character players) or report them as I see fit and not feel the least bit guilty, they should have read the rules

enter (faceplam)

Huh? *Is confussled*

PvE in WoW is far from underrated. Raiding is a huge part of the endgame-- and people in the high-tier guilds are well-respected (within WoW, of course).

If you roll a character on an RP or PvE server, people on RPPvP or PvP servers automatically assume that you are a pussy. They feel superior because leveling a character on a PvP server is more difficult.

They do? I can understand exclusively PvP players thinking that (and yes have experienced it first hand) and indeed...many of these PvP'ers choose to come to RP/PvP servers. However, I've never seen an RP'er who was genuinely into this aspect of the game berate someone like that for playing on an RP/PvE server.

But more, as for pure RP, an RP/PvE server, at least the ones I've seen, there's generally far more active RP'ers and less idiots. On the other hand, why would you go on an RP server just for the PvE? I mean...can the same reason of 'less idiots' be used here as it is with the RP/PvP servers?

As for difficulty...that's also something I guess, maybe some people do pick an RP/PvP server for this reason. Personally, I chose it because, insofar as WoW cannot emulate a certain kind of realism, it's still better that I can be killed by some rampaging horde at any time. And indeed, it's generally frowned upon by a lot of RP'ers to have oneself un-flagged for PvP, that is to be un-attackable in 'safe' zones.

As for reporting people...I stand by that. Although players are not in any way required or forced to RP on an RP server, out of character chat in /s /y etc. is still not allowed, meaning that they can be reported for it. Same goes for non-RP related names and leetspeak. If they didn't want to deal with the rules, you'd figure they wouldn't come right?

 

[bulletproof12]

i do enjoy some pve, like in WoW there were some areas i enjoyed leveling in. and there were a FEW instances i enjoyed to. but i like playing with a real life person, and if that means joining an XBL game with a friend then so be it. for me games are not nearly as much fun if you dont have someone to talk to. there are a couple exception, mainly comp games where i am used to not getting voicechat. but i almost NEVER play any singleplayer game on the 360, without being in private chat with a friend.

but in WoW i will spend hours in PvP BG's like AV and WSG. but i have yet to complete any instance higher then shadowlab.