Question about "friend zone".

[Caligulove]

Well, as the great Chris Rock describes the Friend Zone/Platonic Friends

"Women keep platonic friends for life. You know why? because 'You Never Know...' A platonic friend to a woman is like a dick in a glass case."
IN CASE OF EMERGENCY; BREAK GLASS

That's how I started dating one of my girlfriends in the past. Ending up in the friend zone usually means neither party was interested in the beginning, or more common, one side messed it up at the start. If you find yourself friend-zoned from a girl or guy, I would say its on your own fault for not being forward with your intentions, or too vague. Yes, you are a good person and could work out with this person, but that side has never been put out there, or you're more oblivious to all of the person's desires than you think you are.

 

[Kopikatsu]

There's no such thing as the "friend zone". I'd write something up, but BonsaiK has already said it better than I ever could:

Yes it's possible to be friends with someone but the idea of a "Friend Zone" that you're allocated to after a certain time period of knowing somebody is total fantasy, thought up by bored, lonely, misogynist keyboard jockeys who can't deal with the simple fact that men and women aren't really all that different when it comes to this particular point. They're looking for something to shift the blame for their failures on (because it couldn't possibly be that girls just don't like them much, oh gosh no) so they create this bullshit theory instead of acknowledging the harsh truth: that they never had a chance because she just didn't like them in the first place. Anything but take personal responsibility for their life and actions, hey.

That part I bolded. That's the friend zone. That's exactly what the friend zone means.

 

[Dascylus]

Ok, I just gave my advice knowing the inevitable of your true desires. Clearly though you want assurance.
In which case, this might work but is far more likely to blow up in your face.
Think of it as a walkthrough...

Have a friends day out, have some fun. Do something special that still falls in the friend zone but plays on the border of a date.
I would involve a small amount of alcohol to relax the situation but not too much or you'll overplay things. Wine or beer with a meal is good.
At the end of the night at a point when she isn't trapped (Not waiting for the bill, stuck in a small place, she has the option to make her own way home etc) you tell her (and not in a pour your heart out way) that you enjoy her company as a friend but you can't help wanting something more (or your own words would be better).

Depending on how the conversation goes you will get one of the following responses.

1. She feels the same way and it's all fairytale for however long it lasts (Yes I'm a cynic but I have nothing against it if you wanna keep dreaming)
2. She laughs it off and you decide to keep it in the friend zone but you will always be kicking yourself for pushing things.
3. It all gets too uncomfortable and she won't hang out with you for ages until you eventually drift apart.

I suggest following my original advice and not opening the quest-line but if you must don't say I didn't warn you.
And don't just disappear, I personally want to hear any result of you ignoring all other sane advice and "Helping yourself"

Here's my personal rule No. 1 - There is always another.

 

[ms_sunlight]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

There's no such thing as the "friend zone". I'd write something up, but BonsaiK has already said it better than I ever could:

Yes it's possible to be friends with someone but the idea of a "Friend Zone" that you're allocated to after a certain time period of knowing somebody is total fantasy, thought up by bored, lonely, misogynist keyboard jockeys who can't deal with the simple fact that men and women aren't really all that different when it comes to this particular point. They're looking for something to shift the blame for their failures on (because it couldn't possibly be that girls just don't like them much, oh gosh no) so they create this bullshit theory instead of acknowledging the harsh truth: that they never had a chance because she just didn't like them in the first place. Anything but take personal responsibility for their life and actions, hey.

This.

Also, OP, seriously - use the Search Bar.

I'd post a "This Thread Again" image, but I honestly don't feel like making the effort.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

 

[chowderface]

I'm almost certain that the "Friend Zone" as a negative concept was invented entirely by Nice Guys. If you think about the implications it's actually an incredibly sexist concept: "She doesn't want to fuck me, so why doesn't she just say she's not interested? It's not like she could possibly be at all interesting to me outside of having a vagina."

Conversely, every girl I've ever been attracted to, I'd much rather be just friends with them than be all "sex or GTFO". Then again maybe I'm just a freak for being attracted to girls who actually have personalities.

 

[LilithSlave]

Being someone's friend is a wonderful thing, not a demotion. And acting like being a woman's friend is the ultimate insult for a man paints men far too slutty.

And not accepting when someone only views you as a friend, or not sexually, is the mark of a stalker, manipulator, and sometimes a rapist.

Being someone's friend is not a bad thing. And women are not an object of conquest.

There's a very simple solution to simply being someone's friend instead of their lover: get over it.

 

[Silent Anima]

It's just a 'nice' way to say they're not into you. There isn't some magical point of no return that makes it impossible to be with a girl after becoming too good a friend to her. In fact, that's exactly what you're supposed to do with your significant other: be really good friends with them. Hell, girlfriend and boyfriend have the word 'friend' in the damn title! I've never been told that "I'm like a brother" to a female friend of mine. I was actually told I'm one of the few who isn't like a brother to them. This being said, I'm only interested in girls if I would enjoy talking to and hanging out with. Sex doesn't come as too high a priority. Remember men, personality is where it's at.

 

[Captain_Fantastic]

well the one memorable friendzone was a girl who was dating a close friend at the time i was interested in her but i got a text one night saying how her father thought we were dating and she continued to say i was too much like a brother to her and i figured i may as well take what i can get and took the position of "older brother" to heart

and im now her closest guy friend, i know more about her and have been around her longer than any of her past boyfriends,i also know enough about her that i wouldnt take a chance to date her because of pure incompatibility, and finally she prefers me as a Prom date over her current boyfriend,

though on a surprisingly unrelated note i am still single and fairly bitter over being single

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

Being someone's friend is a wonderful thing, not a demotion. And acting like being a woman's friend is the ultimate insult for a man paints men far too slutty.

Concept of "friend zone" as i understand it is all about "i wanted a girl but was rejected". This topic isn't about being friend with other gender. Sorry.

I'm almost certain that the "Friend Zone" as a negative concept was invented entirely by Nice Guys.

It's possible. We - men - like to harness the unknown, to label things.

It's just a 'nice' way to say they're not into you. There isn't some magical point of no return that makes it impossible to be with a girl after becoming too good a friend to her. In fact, that's exactly what you're supposed to do with your significant other: be really good friends with them. Hell, girlfriend and boyfriend have the word 'friend' in the damn title! I've never been told that "I'm like a brother" to a female friend of mine. I was actually told I'm one of the few who isn't like a brother to them. This being said, I'm only interested in girls if I would enjoy talking to and hanging out with. Sex doesn't come as too high a priority. Remember men, personality is where it's at.

I'm full of stories about people who faced with rejection tried their best to win, ahem, "the heart and affection". And succeeded. Not everyone of course, still, my point stands and is valid : it's better to try change "his/her" mind than simply accept rejection.

------------
...thanx for the answers guys. I got them, my puzzles are a little closer to completion.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

You're pretty slow.

I hear that a lot. Be my guest, one more time doesn't make any difference.

It was more "Joint operations.... This is a thread about relationships... Joint operations + relationships...." Now what do you think that equals?

I'm not sure about the state of your mind but mine won't answer "rape" to that question :

Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

 

[Rednog]

My stance on the friend zone is as follow, if the friend zone gets dropped on you and you're romantically interested, back pedal as fast as you can. Just server the head of that beast asap. Just stop the contact, don't be cold and avoid her like the plague, but turn her into one of those casual acquaintances that you see around work/school/whatever you say hi, quick pleasantries and then move on, no real contact outside of that.
It is far better for you to rip that band-aid off as soon as possible and by yourself than dealing with the false hope that some guys get in the friend zone.
Trust for most cases it is for the best.

And seriously girls, cut that shit out, you aren't being easy on his feelings, you're just mentally extending the chase for him. Just make it clear off the bat.

I remember my ex had a problem of this guy who she stuck into the friend zone, and I'd always hear her b*tch and moan about how he was such a pest and she was just sick of being around him. Eventually we were going out and it still went on, and she would randomly go to hang with him because she's like that's what friends do, I don't want to be hard on his feelings. I heard from one of his friends that the guy thought he had a chance at "winning her over" from me. I told my ex and I was like you really need to just end these ties with him, you're constantly complaining and miserable being around him.
She didn't, kept complaining, I eventually dumped her because it got to the point where it started to grate on my own nerves.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

You're pretty slow.

I hear that a lot. Be my guest, one more time doesn't make any difference.

It was more "Joint operations.... This is a thread about relationships... Joint operations + relationships...." Now what do you think that equals?

I'm not sure about the state of your mind but mine won't answer "rape" to that question :

Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

You keep missing the 'relationship' part. Probably deliberately.

Same thing applies to you. You deliberately try to prove - what ? - that it's ok to mix "joint operations" and "rape" ? Sorry, that disturbes me.

Glad that i'm neither responsible nor have to defend each and every possible association one may think about while reading my topic and listening to his/her own demons.

 

[Mordwyl]

If you become friends with someone solely because you want to get in their pants, you're doing it wrong and deserve ending up in the friend zone. Make your intentions clear from the start or at least as soon as possible. I've been on both sides of the problem and yes, just being straightforward can avoid a lot of drama.

 

[JesterRaiin]

It didn't occur to me earlier, however when i sobered up enough to remember my life it finnaly got me...

You're in the friend zone, so i guess there was this moment when she said "you're like my best friend, older/younger brother" or similar sh*t.

Question is (or rather questions are) : how could you agree ? Why didn't you protest ? Why haven't you proposed better, more adequate solution ?

Men who regularly end up in friend zones are used to being friendly and supportive, and essentially submissive, because that's what they believe women like, and that's how they like behaving around women. This could be for a number of reasons: upbringing, personality, environment, context, inexperience with women and so on.

The main thing is that they're probably used to doing it. It takes a spark of realisation to come to the conclusion that this (i.e. being submissive) is what is causing the problem, and to break out of that habit and stand up for yourself is a relatively hard thing to do for a person like that.

Most people who are in the friend zone lack the knowledge that submission is causing their problems and/or the bravery to stand up to their female 'friends'.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, that actually confirms my *cough* theory. Thanks.

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

You're pretty slow.

I hear that a lot. Be my guest, one more time doesn't make any difference.

It was more "Joint operations.... This is a thread about relationships... Joint operations + relationships...." Now what do you think that equals?

I'm not sure about the state of your mind but mine won't answer "rape" to that question :

Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

You keep missing the 'relationship' part. Probably deliberately.

Same thing applies to you. You deliberately try to prove - what ? - that it's ok to mix "joint operations" and "rape" ? Sorry, that disturbes me.

Glad that i'm neither responsible nor have to defend each and every possible association one may think about while reading my topic and listening to his/her own demons.

You clearly lack the capacity to make the step from 'sexual relationship' + 'joint operations' to 'sex'. I think it's a good thing you're in that 'friend zone', you're clearly not ready for anything more.

Ah, i understand now. You simply skipped the rest of our little discussion here. Uhhhh, buddy, that's not gonna work. You're talking to married man.
...who still is disturbed by suggestions that "joint operations", "relationship" and "rape" should share same sandbox. And that won't change.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

You're pretty slow.

I hear that a lot. Be my guest, one more time doesn't make any difference.

It was more "Joint operations.... This is a thread about relationships... Joint operations + relationships...." Now what do you think that equals?

I'm not sure about the state of your mind but mine won't answer "rape" to that question :

Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

You keep missing the 'relationship' part. Probably deliberately.

Same thing applies to you. You deliberately try to prove - what ? - that it's ok to mix "joint operations" and "rape" ? Sorry, that disturbes me.

Glad that i'm neither responsible nor have to defend each and every possible association one may think about while reading my topic and listening to his/her own demons.

You clearly lack the capacity to make the step from 'sexual relationship' + 'joint operations' to 'sex'. I think it's a good thing you're in that 'friend zone', you're clearly not ready for anything more.

Ah, i understand now. You simply skipped the rest of our little discussion here. Uhhhh, buddy, that's not gonna work. You're talking to married man.
...who still is disturbed by suggestions that "joint operations", "relationship" and "rape" should share same sandbox. And that won't change.

How thick do you have to try to be to not see that joint operations + relationship implies sex? And when you throw in forcing joint operations it's pretty obvious where it goes.

That's no thickness. That's being context sesitive instead of sailing away.
I'm not the biggest fan of applying Schopenhauer's, Eristic Dialectic in discussion, but to each his own i guess.

 

[Sexy Devil]

Well one of the reasons that I would like a person that way is that I find them exceptionally enjoyable to be around, so if I just put it out there and she says no then I really don't have an issue with just being friends/bros/what have you. I'm not going to try to change their mind because I understand that it's just pushy and annoying.

If you only remain friends with them after that because of some delusion that they're suddenly going to be attracted to you then it's time that you abandon ship on that friendship.

 

[Kizi]

Well, I became friends with the girl I like(d) out of complete coincidence. I always just hoped that the friendship would eventually evolve into something more, but so far, no good. [forever_alone.jpg]

 

[BluesHadal]

I'm almost certain that the "Friend Zone" as a negative concept was invented entirely by Nice Guys. If you think about the implications it's actually an incredibly sexist concept: "She doesn't want to fuck me, so why doesn't she just say she's not interested? It's not like she could possibly be at all interesting to me outside of having a vagina."

Conversely, every girl I've ever been attracted to, I'd much rather be just friends with them than be all "sex or GTFO". Then again maybe I'm just a freak for being attracted to girls who actually have personalities.

this is retarded. How do you try to date women? Outside of just outright flirting which not everyone does? by trying to get close to them. By talking to them, it's obviously a somewhat similar path to friendship.

I only came to know the term from the internet, and of course it was coined by some dudes but whether you want to use dumb terms, I can understand what its trying to say. Sometimes a person(male) will try to get close to another person(female). That isn't to get(or just) "laid" Like some else said, that's how you start a relationship. Trying to switch the label and say its all about getting laid just trying to paint the people that use it in a bad light. A weird defensive propaganda as reaction to the term, apparently because some think the term is insulting to women(first time I'm hearing this).

Is the friendship zone a negative insulting concept? I've never spent much time thinking about it or thinking of it as such. It doesn't sound like it though. It's just warning people that this happens and that you should move on. That's what I saw when I first heard of the term. This whole negative connotation seems to be people thinking that the term does something outside of saying sometimes girls look at you as just a friend, It doesn't.

I'm pretty sure guys can imagine dating most of their female friends, even if its not all that seriously, or sleeping with them with the possibility of giving a relationship a try. Are women the same? I don't really know. Whoever came up with the term doesn't seem to think so.