Question about "friend zone".

[Dascylus]

My relationship rule No. 3: Know where you stand!

Strangely my rules also work for buses and trains but that's another story.

Wintastic good sir!

Although I've been planning a blog post for a while here is the short version...

1. There is always another.

2. Let people get off before you get on

3. Know where you stand

4. Know when to get off

Buses and relationships people, buses and relationships.

 

[Dogstile]

I tried to get out of friend zone. Blew up in my face. Doubt i'm even in friend zone anymore.

Take that, people who stay in friend zo-

...oh

 

[Alexias_Sandar]

Honestly, in my experience...plenty of healthy relationships develop from people that are friends first. And stay friends, even after they become a couple, lovers, spouses, whatever. Liking someone's company tends to be a good thing for a relationship.

 

[b3nn3tt]

This post is about simple question : "friendzone inhabitants, y u no stood up and claimed what's yours ?"

being friends with a girl never has and never will entitle you to more

because I think that that is the crux of the argument here. Just because you are 'there for her' does not mean that she owes you a romantic relationship. By assuming that that is the case you are completely devaluing any friendship that anyone has with a woman.

OT: I think my quote response covered most of this, but my feelings are that the friend zone is a myth. It is created and perpetuated by people either too immature to realise that men and women can be friends, or too fragile to accept rejection.

If a woman says she 'likes you as a friend' (or vice versa, but I'm using women as it the more commonly-used example) then it means that she is not interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with you. Taking this and then constantly working to change her mind and show her how wrong she is is only going to result in you not being with her anyway, but also losing that friendship. Although this does have the advantage on the woman's side of showingthat you weren't actually that good a friend anyway, so in the long run she's better off with you not in her life.

*Disclaimer: 'you' is used in a general sense and does not refer to any specific person.

There's some problems with the reasoning here. Who's saying that being nice entitles them to sex or anything? Who's saying that men and women can't jsut be friends?

The term doesn't cover either of those and it and no one that has said that have used the term has either.

Not only that but earlier people were saying that they'd much rather prefer a straight up rejection. So this idea of immature misogynist is bunk. At worst, we're talking about naive people. The idea is that there is doubt as to whether the woman would be interested in a relationship if she considered it. Only one line of what you said has to do with the initial question. Which is why no one tries to say otherwise when a girl says that you're only their friend and that you're in the friendzone(I hate even writing the term though).

fact is there might be nothing wrong with saying that maybe she should think about dating or even asking her out. Doing anything aggressively stupid or maybe doing anything, could be the wrong thing. But there is no concrete, unanimous belief of what to do about it. So you're basically making that up, but the advice is about as good as any.

Also wanting to be in a relationship with someone wouldn't suddenly make a person bad. Maybe they won't focus so much and treat them more like regular friends, whatever that may be.

Alternatively, I can see a situation where a hypothetical person realizes he's in love with a friend that they've known for years, and isn't that a big cliche. So what you're saying is these people would be jerks for trying to figure out if the other person might or could have feelings for them? I ask that rhetorically cause obviously I don't think so.

I would say that the 'friend zone' is something completely separate to being friends with a woman. To me, the friend zone is a term only used when somebody feels hard done by that one of their female friends doesn't want to date them. Hence, when I see the term friend zone, that is what I assume it to be referring to. granted, other people may use different definitions, so I'll avoid assuming that straight off the bat in future.

That being said, my definition is the reason behind the rest of my response. I'm definitely not saying that people can't be friends first and things then move on to romance. I assumed that in the OP, the scenario described was that somebody had asked their friend out, and had been told that they were just friends, and that from there the poster was suggesting people follow that up with continued requests to be more than that. To be honest, it is a little difficult to understand exactly what the OP was suggesting, so I may have misread the whole thing. In the scenario as I read it, that person is not being a good friend at all.

I think that if someone says they only see you as a friend, you have to accept that, pursuing it further will only damage the friendship.

 

[similar.squirrel]

Would you be brutally honest if a girl you found unattractive asked you out?

 

[Muspelheim]

It seems that the crux of the whole situation is based in the idea of "I'm being nice to her. I am entitled for more", which is rather terrifying... It's as if it's impossible to be friends with a lass if there isn't the promise of something more down the line.

Furthermore... "Stand up and reclaim what's yours"..? Can't you hear how creepy and chauvinistic that sounds?

 

[JesterRaiin]

at this point you're not responding to things i actually said, so maybe re-check your google translator and try again.

To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill "Lady, i may be good for nothing dunce hailing from shi*hole of Europe, that use google translator, but my points are valid. You, on the other hand come here, act like on period and expect what ? That someone will bow down before your poorly chosen arguments because your chromosomes are a little different ?"
Ain't gonna happen. You disagree, prove me wrong. Otherwise, g'day to you.

i am proving you wrong by holding an opinion that disagrees with yours.

"I beg to differ" proves nothing. That's not even an argument. I can say "i disagree with your disagreement" and ? Will you play "oh, then i disagree with your disagreement over my disagreement" card ? That leads to nowhere.

Read once again what i mentioned earlier please. I pointed out that almost every part of your earlier statement is wrong, so by law of logic it's also wrong as a whole.

As for now i think that all your rhetoric is based on "i think that way therefore it has to be the truth". I can't discuss with that since this topic is about real life events, not about some Never-Never landish logic.

you say i'm not allowed to reject a man because men have a right to my body just by making my acquaintance

being told i'm subhuman

Our relationship is neither good nor profound, so kindly please stop putting things in my mouth. I feel violated by this behavior.

It seems that the crux of the whole situation is based in the idea of "I'm being nice to her. I am entitled for more", which is rather terrifying... It's as if it's impossible to be friends with a lass if there isn't the promise of something more down the line.

Furthermore... "Stand up and reclaim what's yours"..? Can't you hear how creepy and chauvinistic that sounds?

No, why ? The right to fight for what we consider important for us, to struggle for change is not only one of our privileges. It's our duty...
Wait a minute... You got me thinking there. Is it possible that when i said "reclaim what's yours" you people understood "fight for your girl/boy - they BELONG to you like an object", instead of "you're the man, get a grip, fight for your rights FTW" ?

 

[Muspelheim]

Yes. That's really the vibe that comes across, perhaps it could do with a rephrasing. It sounded rather frighteningly like "It's my right to do with you what I wish", hence why I felt it sounded chauvinistic.

But yes, fighting for your rights and not allowing yourself to be trampled on is a good trait, something that should be encouraged. How will things ever change for the better if noone ever tries? But I don't think that someone should feel entitled to a relationship just because they are being nice. It's a mutual thing, after all.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Yes. That's really the vibe that comes across, perhaps it could do with a rephrasing. It sounded rather frighteningly like "It's my right to do with you what I wish", hence why I felt it sounded chauvinistic.

http://troll.me/images/home-simpson-panic/oh-fuck.jpg

...is pretty much everything i'm thinking now. :|

 

[Muspelheim]

Yes. That's really the vibe that comes across, perhaps it could do with a rephrasing. It sounded rather frighteningly like "It's my right to do with you what I wish", hence why I felt it sounded chauvinistic.

http://troll.me/images/home-simpson-panic/oh-fuck.jpg

...is pretty much everything i'm thinking now. :|

Well, I'm very glad that isn't at all what you ment, and I can agree on what it was you actually ment, if that's any consolation. :3

 

[Vault101]

Better for whom, exactly?

What are you asking about ? Are you suggesting that switching status from friend to "let's be together" equals hurting somebody ?

because Id be totally fine going out with a guy Im not really attracted too

and OBVIOUSLY Im not being attracked to him on purpose right? (because women are she-devils like that)

 

[Vault101]

I regards to this "freind zone" thing...

if a guy is interested in me I want him to make it pretty damn clear, its not my fault if I have a freind who is a guy, but never tells me he want to be more..somhow its MY fault and ive been stringing him along

 

[Combustion Kevin]

I regards to this "freind zone" thing...

if a guy is interested in me I want him to make it pretty damn clear, its not my fault if I have a freind who is a guy, but never tells me he want to be more..somhow its MY fault and ive been stringing him along

and then say men don't get subtlety?

and no, if a guy never says anything it can not be your fault.
the problem lies in that some girls dont give a "no" but a "maybe", and THEN string the poor fuck along with false hopes.

but yeah, there are guys who may resent you for that, and I'd like to point you to my earlier post on this thread for a further explanation on this particular kind of people.

 

[JesterRaiin]

Well, I'm very glad that isn't at all what you ment, and I can agree on what it was you actually ment, if that's any consolation. :3

Unfortunatelly, i must commit ritual seppuku. Farewell cruel world.

Better for whom, exactly?

What are you asking about ? Are you suggesting that switching status from friend to "let's be together" equals hurting somebody ?

because Id be totally fine going out with a guy Im not really attracted too
and OBVIOUSLY Im not being attracked to him on purpose right? (because women are she-devils like that)

If there wouldn't be anything interesting in this guy, you wouldn't consider him "friend' in the 1st place. Matter of good looks only ? That's both a little shallow, and woman's ultimate argument against chauvinism isn't it ?

 

[Vault101]

Well, I'm very glad that isn't at all what you ment, and I can agree on what it was you actually ment, if that's any consolation. :3

Unfortunatelly, i must commit ritual seppuku. Farewell cruel world.

Better for whom, exactly?

What are you asking about ? Are you suggesting that switching status from friend to "let's be together" equals hurting somebody ?

because Id be totally fine going out with a guy Im not really attracted too
and OBVIOUSLY Im not being attracked to him on purpose right? (because women are she-devils like that)

If there wouldn't be anything interesting in this guy, you wouldn't consider him "friend' in the 1st place. Matter of good looks only ? That's both a little shallow, and woman's ultimate argument against chauvinism isn't it ?

its not just about looks, its about weather I want to go out with this guy or not

mabye I dont...so what? thats not my fault

and whats wrong with freindship? say I do go out iwth a freind..it gets awkard...we break up...even more awkwardness

 

[JesterRaiin]

If there wouldn't be anything interesting in this guy, you wouldn't consider him "friend' in the 1st place. Matter of good looks only ? That's both a little shallow, and woman's ultimate argument against chauvinism isn't it ?

its not just about looks, its about weather I want to go out with this guy or not

mabye I dont...so what? thats not my fault

and whats wrong with freindship? say I do go out iwth a freind..it gets awkard...we break up...even more awkwardness

Why, how nice !
We're talking about a completely hypothetical situation and your attitude is "no".

 

[Vault101]

If there wouldn't be anything interesting in this guy, you wouldn't consider him "friend' in the 1st place. Matter of good looks only ? That's both a little shallow, and woman's ultimate argument against chauvinism isn't it ?

its not just about looks, its about weather I want to go out with this guy or not

mabye I dont...so what? thats not my fault

and whats wrong with freindship? say I do go out iwth a freind..it gets awkard...we break up...even more awkwardness

Why, how nice !
We're talking about a completely hypothetical situation and your attitude is "no".

I thourght this "hypothetical" situation was if I was saying no to my "freind" (thats the whole point here isnt it?)

I mean if a girl asks you out and you say no does that make you a bad person? are you morally obligated to go out wiht every girl that asks?

a "realtionship" is different to a freindship, theres a whole lot more crap added, its not some "awww your sweet..ok!" thing

 

[Vault101]

My stance on the friend zone is as follow, if the friend zone gets dropped on you and you're romantically interested, back pedal as fast as you can. Just server the head of that beast asap. Just stop the contact, don't be cold and avoid her like the plague, but turn her into one of those casual acquaintances that you see around work/school/whatever you say hi, quick pleasantries and then move on, no real contact outside of that.
.

but thats not "the freind zone" is it? because you were never freinds with her, you aksed her out and she said no....and you decided that would be the end of it

 

[JesterRaiin]

Actually it's pretty clear where the point is here. It's stupid to compare forcing 'joint operations' to a relationship for pretty blatant reasons that you choose to ignore.

My circuss, my monkeys. Not your thing ? Don't buy tickets next time. Simple as that.

Ok, you're not capable of understanding that your analogy sucked and this being your thread doesn't make it any less stupid of an analogy. Well that's sad.

Jezu Chryste na stelażu...
Could you explain what you mean by "joint event" ? C'mon, indulge me.

What I mean? Pretty funny there. It's pretty obvious. Event. Involving. Both. People. Working. Together.

Not precisely. "Both" "Joint events" can involve more than two people. Actually "joint events" can be quite big.
But let's move on. Are "joint events" exclusive to let's say "feelings", "romantical relationship" and such ?

No. Now is this a thread about romantic relationships?

"No". Exactly.
So one more question if you will. Could you give me some examples of "joint events" ? Possibily some big things (involving more than two people).

Either you failed to answer my question or you're a ridiculous pedant. And anyone here can tell this is about romantic relationships.

So, how about those examples ? Go on please...

You're a pretty sad person.

Thanks for reminding. Now, how about those examples ? No need to be shy !

It's more or less like accusing someone of trying to speak for all black people when they respond negatively to "Black people are property". Because you pretty much just spewed the misogynistic equivalent about women.

Great to know. Now, how about those examples... ?

Spoiler: BTW

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy.

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/data/roadbike/500/I-see-what-you-did-there-Fry.jpg

;p

 

[JesterRaiin]

Actually it's pretty clear where the point is here. It's stupid to compare forcing 'joint operations' to a relationship for pretty blatant reasons that you choose to ignore.

My circuss, my monkeys. Not your thing ? Don't buy tickets next time. Simple as that.

Ok, you're not capable of understanding that your analogy sucked and this being your thread doesn't make it any less stupid of an analogy. Well that's sad.

Jezu Chryste na stelażu...
Could you explain what you mean by "joint event" ? C'mon, indulge me.

What I mean? Pretty funny there. It's pretty obvious. Event. Involving. Both. People. Working. Together.

Not precisely. "Both" "Joint events" can involve more than two people. Actually "joint events" can be quite big.
But let's move on. Are "joint events" exclusive to let's say "feelings", "romantical relationship" and such ?

No. Now is this a thread about romantic relationships?

"No". Exactly.
So one more question if you will. Could you give me some examples of "joint events" ? Possibily some big things (involving more than two people).

Either you failed to answer my question or you're a ridiculous pedant. And anyone here can tell this is about romantic relationships.

snip failing to answer

So, where's the bit where you admit that the thread is about relationships?

Everything in due time, my young Padawan. Let's not stray from right path, let's not break our little experiment in the middle.
Now, where were we ? Ah yes. Examples. Is it really that hard for you to follow this simple request ?

Could you give me some examples of "joint events" ? Possibily some big things (involving more than two people).

Whole day and no answer, only desperate attempts to escape the answer ? May it be that (regarding this request) all your mind is capable to produce are visions of rape and stuff ? Or rather you already see that "joint event" is quite wide definition and covers more activities than only rape ? If so, i guess that you're following this path :

If you find that you are being beaten, you can create a diversion--that is, you can suddenly begin to talk of something else, as though it had a bearing on the matter in dispute.
This may be done without presumption if the diversion has some general bearing on the matter.