Question about legality

[saruman31]

They have a saying: consumers are stupid. YOU made this possible by buying stupid DLC. Now don`t complain about it since it will never go back to the way it was.

Once again, there is no way to know about this unless you search pretty much that specific question. You will not just stumble upon it while researching the game, and if you already bought it (ala the Season Pass) there is no way you could know through the season pass because that says "downloadable content" in the description and all it does is give you access to the DLC when it's released, meaning you don't know the file size of said DLC's until they release, making it impossible to know that the first content is disk locked unless, like I said, you actually do a search about it.

I also feel sorry for people like you. I am really tired of individuals with the attitude of "don't complain about it" or, in a thread on the Gears 3 forums I was in, "deal with it". It is attitude like this that stagnates society and allows for greater and greater injustices to take place. People with this kind of thinking allowed for some of the greatest injustices in history to happen. Injustices like the taxes and refusal of representation in parliament for the American Colonists, Slavery, Jim Crow Laws, Apartheid, discrimination against women, and Nazi Germany taking over countries and removing people to go to work or death camps. These all would have continued if people didn't stand up and disagreed with how things operated at the time and said "NO". Even the Declaration of Independence sates we should question goings on by saying

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

Though since the document had to do with their government they limited it to that topic, but it should apply in all situations.

Sorry to go off on you like this but I am just tired of the "there's nothing you can do about it attitude". I myself am a realist, but I still think that you should stand up for what you believe in even if it might not succeed, because you at least know you tried.

Fine, complain about it, but it won`t change a thing. This is not morally wrong. No people are hurt or prejudiced by this. It`s a economic thing and not a socially-political one.

 

[Astoria]

...why don't they just put the price of the game up $10? Or is that just too logical?

 

[Lillowh]

...why don't they just put the price of the game up $10? Or is that just too logical?

Because that is something that the majority of consumers would notice before they buy and there would be a huge uproar about it. Doing it this way goes behind the consumers back while still getting paid an extra 10 dollars for the game if the consumer gets all the content on the disk. Except they don't know they've been had because they put trust into a well known company who has no history of doing these things, and does not expect the to use such shady business tactics.


Zack I will break up your quote to break it down for you piece by piece.

First off:

As it's not November 1st and you know, I'd say that's false. There clearly is a way to know. Consumers should research BEFORE purchase, not claim after the fact that they had "no way to know." If there's doubt, don't buy.

Apparently you misunderstood what I said, possibly due to my typing error of spelling "release" instead of spelling "released." What happens with Purchases on Xbox Live is that you cannot see the file size of something unless you select the content and go to the screen where it gives you the option to buy it, and there it says the file size, the description, etc. With the season pass, you are basically pre-ordering the 4 upcoming add-ons that they say in the description for the season are new downloadable content, which we have proven to be untrue because of this first one. Since the first pack doesn't "release" until November 1st, it does not appear on the Marketplace. So, as I said, there is no way to know the file size of the first DLC pack, only the file size of the season pass, which allows you to download the DLC's when they release.

Also, those of us who have been notified about this issue for a while knew that the 3 maps and the character skins were on the disk, but there was no way to know if they were going to put them as the first content pack and charge for them, which I hoped they would not because they have no history of such shady business, especially since the first DLC pack for Gears of War 2 was free for new purchases. Either that, or I hoped they would add additional maps along with the ones that were on the disk to at least make themselves look like they were giving you a deal. If they added an extra 2 maps and people would be saying "5 maps plus horde content and character skins for $10? You are awesome Epic!"

Unfortunately, the content of said pack were not revealed until yesterday, and realizing that all of that content is already on the disk, I made this thread. It angers me that Epic would do this since the maps have been done for months and were not or should not have originally been planned as dlc (blood drive is a remake, Azura was not planned as dlc since they released a teaser for Horde 2.0 a while ago, meaning the map was finished even before last June,and then tried to cover up that fact by making copyright claims on all of the youtube videos showing that fact, etc). So until yesterday, there was no positive way to know that the locked disk content was the entirety of the add-on.

Secondly:

The information was available through no extraordinary means (teh google).

Oh really now? Please show me how to find out the information on google from a major site (not a blog) people would trust, without using the word Disk Locked Content (because no normal person would search this unless they knew Gears 3 had it) and without reading the comments on an article. If you do find an article about it, is the date of the article a few days after release or just recent. From searching Gears of War 3, Gears of War 3 DLC, and Gears of War 3 First DLC, I came up with nothing on the topic of the first dlc pack's content being on the disk.As I said, you need to pretty much search for the specific problem that you would not know about before searching. So no, the information is not available through normal means, which brings me to my last point.

TBH, I'm not even sure I buy that the public is unaware of the concept, since it's generally discussed to death. So the information is out there, and those concerned should be doing their research before purchase.

See above Paragraphs.

This is not morally wrong. No people are hurt or prejudiced by this. It`s a economic thing and not a socially-political one.

Not morally wrong? Since when is taking advantage of your customers misinformation, that you facilitated, to profit off of them not morally wrong? No people are hurt? They're, in essence, buying the game twice. Most would call that a scam. And and money lost from a scam is considered as damage done. Was nobody hurt by Bernie Madoff because he misinformed and misled people to gain money off of them? You're saying that nobody was hurt by that just because it was an "economic thing"? You're right, the people who fell for that were stupid and should have done more research, and Bernie should never have gone to jail. The people who lost millions should just deal with it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Apparently you misunderstood what I said, possibly due to my typing error of spelling "release" instead of spelling "released." What happens with Purchases on Xbox Live is that you cannot see the file size of something unless you select the content and go to the screen where it gives you the option to buy it, and there it says the file size, the description, etc. With the season pass, you are basically pre-ordering the 4 upcoming add-ons that they say in the description for the season are new downloadable content, which we have proven to be untrue because of this first one. Since the first pack doesn't "release" until November 1st, it does not appear on the Marketplace. So, as I said, there is no way to know the file size of the first DLC pack, only the file size of the season pass, which allows you to download the DLC's when they release.

Looking at file sizes is only ONE venue. I just alluded to that in my last post. I'm not sure if it was too subtle and you missed it, or if you chose to ignore it. One way or another, however, it is an easy option. But again, I found out about this via teh google quite easily. The fact remains that one can check these things through no extraordinary means.

Oh really now? Please show me how to find out the information on google from a major site (not a blog) people would trust, without using the word Disk Locked Content (because no normal person would search this unless they knew Gears 3 had it) and without reading the comments on an article.

Translation: You want me to hold your hand for you. Sorry, you're the consumer that's so pissed off. I'm the one who didn't buy the season pass. You're whining about it being impossible. I showed you it was and stand before you, living proof.

"reading comments" and such are still not extraordinary means.

I'm sorry you are not motivated enough to actually follow up on your cause.

See above Paragraphs.

That has little to do with it, though. Whether people are aware of the existence of on-disc DLC is a whole different animal. Please don't confuse the two. You're trying to claim an ignorance I do not believe exists, and nothing you said in your above paragraphs addressed that. It merely makes excuses for how you cannot do what I did.

You, you are why this happens. Because too many "concerned" consumers will buy then complain. They've got your money, so it worked. I'm willing to bet the next company will get it, too. You're rewarding what you liken to fraud because it's "hard."

They're, in essence, buying the game twice.

No, they're absolutely not. You're paying for a license for further content that was not included in your prior license. If you don't like that, you're free to get organised and go do something about that, but legally, this is their right currently. You have no leg to stand on, and you can't even call it a "deceptive" practice since the content is still new.

But nice try with the Bernie Madaoff comparison. Holy False Equivalency, Batman!

Trying to compare actual fraud to fraud which is only "in essence" fraud because you don't like it. Cute, but hardly relevant. Madoff actively cooked books to generate false reports. No game company has yet done anything to this extent.

 

[Lillowh]

Oh really now? Please show me how to find out the information on google from a major site (not a blog) people would trust, without using the word Disk Locked Content (because no normal person would search this unless they knew Gears 3 had it) and without reading the comments on an article.

Translation: You want me to hold your hand for you. Sorry, you're the consumer that's so pissed off. I'm the one who didn't buy the season pass. You're whining about it being impossible. I showed you it was and stand before you, living proof.

"reading comments" and such are still not extraordinary means.

I'm sorry you are not motivated enough to actually follow up on your cause.

I can Deal with the rest of the comebacks as opinions on your part that will not change. I cannot however, allow this as an answer. I am not asking you to hole my hand, because I can find it quite easily because already know about, just like you already know about it. I already did my research on both the actual issue and the parameters I told you about. You will not find anything on the DLC being on the disk on any site on the first page of Google search of "Gears Of War 3 DLC" and "Gears of War 3 first DLC", save one: the escapist comment section. The only other mention of it being on disk is in the comment section of USA Today's site where someone asked if the rumor they heard about the on-disk DLC was true. The average person will not read the comment section (and even if they did there was no mention on all but 2 sites near the bottom of the first page), and I know for a fact that almost no one will ever search "Gears of War 3 On-disk DLC" because they wouldn't know about it (a lot of people don't even know that exists).

This comeback was not only an insult to my intelligence and one to yours. All it was was an overblown "U MAD BRO?". You ramble about how easy it is to find it, and claim absolute truth with no proof or supporting evidence and only the statement that google is no extraordinary means, and then go on to insult me. The rest of the replies I can categorize under you refusing to change your mind, just as I refuse to change mine. This comment of yours, though, I could not stand and take because it shows a severe lack of respect and maturity on your part. In other words:
Translation: You are arguing like a 6 year old, ignore most of my arguments (especially about the fact that there was no way to know until yesterday that the DLC only included the ON-Disk Content...want to address that one since you're such a master debater) and claim truth because "I said so".

P.S. Whining? I am not whining. I am complaining. Do you want to hear whining?
This is whining! OOOOO The price is too high, it should be free! Can't you lower it? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH It's bull and it's SO SHADY! Why didn't they give it to us, it's gunna make me rage, why didn't they think about us? This practice is SO BROKEN! Why did they have to doo iiitt??

 

[Something Amyss]

I can Deal with the rest of the comebacks as opinions on your part that will not change. I cannot however, allow this as an answer. I am not asking you to hole my hand, because I can find it quite easily because already know about, just like you already know about it. I already did my research on both the actual issue and the parameters I told you about. You will not find anything on the DLC being on the disk on any site on the first page of Google search of "Gears Of War 3 DLC" and "Gears of War 3 first DLC", save one: the escapist comment section. The only other mention of it being on disk is in the comment section of USA Today's site where someone asked if the rumor they heard about the on-disk DLC was true. The average person will not read the comment section (and even if they did there was no mention on all but 2 sites near the bottom of the first page), and I know for a fact that almost no one will ever search "Gears of War 3 On-disk DLC" because they wouldn't know about it (a lot of people don't even know that exists).

This comeback was not only an insult to my intelligence and one to yours. All it was was an overblown "U MAD BRO?". You ramble about how easy it is to find it, and claim absolute truth with no proof or supporting evidence and only the statement that google is no extraordinary means, and then go on to insult me. The rest of the replies I can categorize under you refusing to change your mind, just as I refuse to change mine. This comment of yours, though, I could not stand and take because it shows a severe lack of respect and maturity on your part. In other words:
Translation: You are arguing like a 6 year old, ignore most of my arguments (especially about the fact that there was no way to know until yesterday that the DLC only included the ON-Disk Content...want to address that one since you're such a master debater) and claim truth because "I said so".

P.S. Whining? I am not whining. I am complaining. Do you want to hear whining?
This is whining! OOOOO The price is too high, it should be free! Can't you lower it? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH It's bull and it's SO SHADY! Why didn't they give it to us, it's gunna make me rage, why didn't they think about us? This practice is SO BROKEN! Why did they have to doo iiitt??

You are asking me to hold your hand, and you are whining and making excuses for why you cannot do what I did. I find it hard to believe these are legit, to boot. But hey, you just dismissed most of my argument under "refusing to change my mind," so maybe I should just write this off as "refusing to take responsibility for your own actions."