Question of the Day, August 28, 2010

[The Escapist Staff]

Question of the Day, August 28, 2010



An inferno has been raging between game developers and consumers. Developers state that buying used games is just as bad as pirating a game, since they do not get any of the cut from the resale. Consumers, of course, enjoy purchasing a $60 game for half the price. What do you think? Are systems like Project Ten Dollar a good idea?

Permalink

 

[lazinesslord]

I disagree, sure gamestop makes a lot of cash off this (and I do so hate gamestop with a passion) many small game shops actually need the used market in order to stay in business. The small stores make only about $8 of every purchase of a new game so the best way to make ends meet is from used games.(this is according to my local store I'm not quite sure about others)

Now as for the relationship between consumers and developers I think Shamus had the right idea. Developers should bring the price of games down over time.

 

[daftalchemist]

Somebody is getting money from me buying the game, therefore it is not piracy. If no one was getting money, then I'd say you can call it piracy. But just because the publishers who sold the game originally aren't selling it again does not make it piracy. It makes it greed.

 

[Juion]

I chose the first option, but I'd like to clarify. It's not nearly as bad as piracy, but it shouldn't be encouraged behavior. Used games have their place, I'm just not sure what it is yet.

 

[anyGould]

Wow, that poll isn't biased at all... I can be a dirty pirate or a cheapskate. Nice.

 

[AmrasCalmacil]

I quite like the idea, I always buy games new after I had a rather nasty experience with a used copy of Mass Effect. Never. Ever. Again. But I digress, it's nice to feel like you're getting something extra when you buy the game. Even if the money grubbing bastards at EA should have put it in the game anyway. And I'd say it adds something.

But! On the other hand, I have a friend who, is, shall we say, quite a bit more strapped for cash than I am, and so we're rather limited on the maps for say, Bad Company 2 we can play together on, which is bad, really. It doesn't break the game though, so I can live with it until he forks up for some more variety.

So, overall, I'd say I like the plan, I do wish it would include some more things though, given the rate with which EA churns out pointless DLC that could have been in the game from the beginning anyway.

And, EA, kindly stop milking my precious Dragon Age. I keep on spending my Microsoft points on more important things like Monkey Island which leaves me without my Leliana adorableness fix.

 

[thenamelessloser]

Is buying a used book the same thing as buying an illegal copy? Is buying a used movie the same thing as buying a pirated movie? Is buying a used car the same thing as getting a car that was made by parts from a chop-shop or stealing a car ?

So, is GTA V going to be about buying used cars? =D (actually not sure if the car analogy makes sense but it lead to the funny question to me)

 

[Nazrel]

Don't you have an option of sees nothing wrong with used game sales, but doesn't actually buy them?

 

[carpenter20m]

Somebody is getting money from me buying the game, therefore it is not piracy.

So if you donate to your private torrent site, that makes it OK?

The way I see it, the problem with piracy is that you can keep the copy you're giving away, while used games can't do that. However, both cases are JUST AS BAD for the developers. While they can point the finger to piracy, it's difficult to do the same with such an old practice, like buying and selling used items.

What we gamers need is lending libraries. Book publishers hate them (they really do), yet libraries are older than them, established within law and culture. Games came long after capitalism, so you can see how developers tried to make sure that no such thing as lending can happen legally.

So, there's a question for you. If libraries starting lending software and games, would you borrow from them?

PS: Food for thought: Many know (and many don't) that when you buy software, you are actually buying the license to use it. It is not yours by any means. You're not supposed to lend, sell or copy what is not yours in the first place. That is why I like Steam. The license lasts forever (ideally), while license for physical copies lasts as long as the DVD lasts (you try convincing EA to give you another copy of Dragon Age because your little sister broke the first one).

PPS: So, supposedly, you can back-up your game as long as you own the physical copy, you can sell it as used to someone else, but you cannot do both at the same time.

PPPS: Sigh...I guess software companies have the power to write the laws as they see fit.

PPPPS: Give us lending libraries, now! Digital ones, so we won't have to walk. With a small subscription fee. "Get the game for 2 weeks, renew it for another 2 if need be"! That would drive the developers insane...

 

[thenamelessloser]

Somebody is getting money from me buying the game, therefore it is not piracy.

So if you donate to your private torrent site, that makes it OK?

The way I see it, the problem with piracy is that you can keep the copy you're giving away, while used games can't do that. However, both cases are JUST AS BAD for the developers. While they can point the finger to piracy, it's difficult to do the same with such an old practice, like buying and selling used items.

What we gamers need is lending libraries. Book publishers hate them (they really do), yet libraries are older than them, established within law and culture. Games came long after capitalism, so you can see how developers tried to make sure that no such thing as lending can happen legally.

So, there's a question for you. If libraries starting lending software and games, would you borrow from them?

PS: Food for thought: Many know (and many don't) that when you buy software, you are actually buying the license to use it. It is not yours by any means. You're not supposed to lend, sell or copy what is not yours in the first place. That is why I like Steam. The license lasts forever (ideally), while license for physical copies lasts as long as the DVD lasts (you try convincing EA to give you another copy of Dragon Age because your little sister broke the first one).

PPS: So, supposedly, you can back-up your game as long as you own the physical copy, you can sell it as used to someone else, but you cannot do both at the same time.

PPPS: Sigh...I guess software companies have the power to write the laws as they see fit.

PPPPS: Give us lending libraries, now! Digital ones, so we won't have to walk. With a small subscription fee. "Get the game for 2 weeks, renew it for another 2 if need be"! That would drive the developers insane...

How are there movies, TV shows, and music CDs at the library then? I mean if it is all about books being able to be borrowed from the library because it has been that way culturally for a long time, then how is those other newer forms of entertainment and art at them?

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

The fact that this question is even up for debate makes me incredibly unsympathetic to the game developers. It's getting to the point where I just don't want most of the big name companies making even a dime off of me. You reap what you sow, EA/Activision.

 

[daftalchemist]

Somebody is getting money from me buying the game, therefore it is not piracy.

So if you donate to your private torrent site, that makes it OK?

The way I see it, the problem with piracy is that you can keep the copy you're giving away, while used games can't do that. However, both cases are JUST AS BAD for the developers. While they can point the finger to piracy, it's difficult to do the same with such an old practice, like buying and selling used items.

Developers are still getting money from the initial sale of the game. If I buy a game, it becomes my property. I can do whatever I want to do with my property. If I want to let my friend borrow the game, I will. Developers can pitch a fit about it all they want, but it's still my property. If I want to sell it to a game store to buy a different game, I will. Then it becomes the game store's property. That means they can do whatever they want with it.

If developers have such a problem with game stores selling used games, perhaps they should set up a system in which they'll buy back used games, polish them up and sell them as new. This way they can still get all the money they want for the game, and I can still get some money back for a game I already beat so that I can buy a new one. Otherwise they should back off and leave used game sales alone. They owned the game once, but it has already been bought from them and is no longer theirs to claim profits on a second time.

 

[carpenter20m]

How are there movies, TV shows, and music CDs at the library then? I mean if it is all about books being able to be borrowed from the library because it has been that way culturally for a long time, then how is those other newer forms of entertainment and art at them?

There are but in more limited quantities. But you never find software. You can't BORROW the latest Norton antivirus, nor any games. Digital property is a huge problem for lawmakers, companies and consumers alike, which won't be resolved soon.

Developers are still getting money from the initial sale of the game. If I buy a game, it becomes my property. I can do whatever I want to do with my property. If I want to let my friend borrow the game, I will. Developers can pitch a fit about it all they want, but it's still my property. If I want to sell it to a game store to buy a different game, I will. Then it becomes the game store's property. That means they can do whatever they want with it.

If developers have such a problem with game stores selling used games, perhaps they should set up a system in which they'll buy back used games, polish them up and sell them as new. This way they can still get all the money they want for the game, and I can still get some money back for a game I already beat so that I can buy a new one. Otherwise they should back off and leave used game sales alone. They owned the game once, but it has already been bought from them and is no longer theirs to claim profits on a second time.

The game does not become your property. The only thing you know is the license to use it (same with movies etc. actually). You are not allowed to lend, copy it and so on. If it did become your property, then torrenting would actually be legal, since pirates actually need a legit copy in order to crack it. Also, your second paragraph doesn't hold under scrutiny. Why buy back the games? The cost of the packaging is minimal compared to development costs. It is more expensive to buy them back than let the retailers just sell them. The point is that they want money from EVERYONE playing the game and that means that lending libraries, used games and pirating are equally bad for them. The only difference is that pirating is illegal, since it's a new practice, while the other two have been established since time immemorial in our culture.

 

[daftalchemist]

The point is that they want money from EVERYONE playing the game and that means that lending libraries, used games and pirating are equally bad for them. The only difference is that pirating is illegal, since it's a new practice, while the other two have been established since time immemorial in our culture.

So then the point is that they're greedy assholes, and therefore I don't give a damn about what they want. They're making millions of dollars by selling games, I'm making $8 by pouring coffee. Screw them.

 

[faspxina]

Do I have to phone IKEA everytime I sell one of their couches in a yard sale?

Do I have to send some money to Hasbro whenever I give one of their toys to charity?

Do I have to ask Toyota permission for me to sell my car to someone else?

HELL - NO !!!

That is all.

 

[Radelaide]

I'm sorry, what?

I'm buying a game from a legal and legit retailer. I'm not "stealing" the game from developers. Used games are still a legal copy of the game. Used games are not piracy. Developers are fucking fickle sometimes.

If I was to torrent a game, then yes, I would be a pirate. But since I'm buying the game from say... JB HI-FI or EB Games, then I am not pirating the game. I am not doing anything illegal by purchasing the game.

I generally buy used games because they're cheaper. Living in Australia, I can't afford to fork out $110+ each time a new game is released and I refused to be called a pirate for buying a used copy of a game.

 

[Glamorgan]

No. It is not. The used game sellers are being payed for it, where as if you pirate it, no-one gets payed anything.
Living in Australia, new release games cost around $119 AU, which is way more than I'm prepared to pay. Developers, you were payed once for the game. The game retailer doesn't actually earn that much money from first-hand sales. If you remove the option for people to do that, there is a possibility of the retailers going out of business. This would mean that you lose the possibility of selling your games through them, and you would lose more money than you did in the first place from second hand games.

I think that makes sense, anyway.