Question of the Day, August 28, 2010

[tehroc]

Why does the question of the day always come after a good thread on the subject has died out?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.228124-penny-arcade-equates-used-games-to-piracy?page=5#7869800

Also, why is the question of the day always phrased with bias?

 

[TastySurvivor]

How is it piracy? Is it piracy if i buy a game from a garage sale? No. Its not the developers or publishers game anymore. Its the persons who bought it. If I buy a car, then a year later sell it to my friend, should the dealership get a cut of that? No, because they already got paid for that transaction. Thinking buying a used game is piracy is idiotic in my opinion.

 

[carpenter20m]

I don't see how this exchange of money makes used games sales better than piracy.

I remember that back in the day, long before broadband, there were stores that sold pirated copies of games for a fraction of the price. We were paying them money, they were giving us the game. They had already paid for the game, mind you; they needed a legit copy to start copying it.

Or what if you're "donating" to your favorite torrent site or group of crackers? They bought a legit copy, they gave it to you, you paid them.

The only difference is scale, as a previous poster said. But for the law, scale changes the penalty, it does not make something legal. Stealing 10 dollars and stealing a million is still a crime. You get reprimanded for the first, you go to jail for the second (or get elected in office, but that's another story).

Another thought: We really need to start getting away from the physical copy mentality. Things are going away from that and in a few years or more, services like Steam would be the only ones available in any platform. Owning software is not the same as owning a table...not at all. A table cannot be copied at no cost and two tables cost twice as much to be made. A game developer can "burn" 3 or a million DVDs and the cost would be about the same (since packaging is negligible).

Another thought: You do realize it is illegal to lend your copy to a friend of yours, right? How many avoid doing that for this reason, though?

What is illegal is not necessarily immoral and what is immoral is not necessarily illegal. Food for thought.

PS: I don't support piracy, in any case, but I would never stop you from doing it, though.

 

[Riobux]

Cheap skate or I agree with it...Hhhmmm...

Anyway, to compare it to piracy is like comparing skateboarding with mugging. Yes, they're both bad in their own right, but skateboarding is just nothing. No one cares about skateboarders and infact some support them. Piracy/mugging though, everyone pretty much agrees it's a bad thing.

 

[under_score]

Ugh. Of course it isn't piracy. This is how capitalism works, you introduce a product into the market and once it's been sold, whoever happens to own it can do whatever the hell they want with it.

You can, and the law does, prohibit DUPLICATING the game and then distributing it, i.e. piracy.
You can't prohibit stores from offering a better deal than you. You can offer a better deal yourself. I know that if the gap between a new copy and a used one is about $5 I'd go new, but once the gap reaches about $20 I'd go used (although that is a bit iffy, since a store essentially controls the price and is going to favour it's used games over new ones, given the better profit margin).

Although I can't actually remember buying a used game (from a store) in ages, I certainly don't blame people buying used over here in Aus, given the extortionist pricing of new games. Which are probably set by the retailers.

Ultimately I don't see anything morally wrong with used games, it's just a good bit of business on the retailer's part that publishers would rather stamp out than actually put the effort into giving the customer a better deal themselves. And in many cases the $30 odd bucks that I can get from getting rid of an older game or two is a deciding factor in whether I get a new one or not, something I can't be alone in.

 

[Lucane]

It's not as bad as piracy since money is still spent in the market to some degree(Even if it doesn't get back to the publishers)Which can easily be used as trade-in items to buy future used games or new games. (Which would take value for the product from the store.)Pirated copies completely remove profit from the overall business regardless of intention.

 

[ThreeKneeNick]

I voted for the first option because the end result of buying a used game is the same as pirating it, as far as developers are concerned, but i absolutely don't think developers should get a cut or should even feel like they should get a cut because the disc containing the game is not their property. The escapist needs to start providing straightforward unbiased answers for these polls...

 

[fix-the-spade]

You don't see car manufacturers taking dealers to court for not giving them a cut of second hand sales.
Nor do you see builders trying to extract money from houses that are sold on.
Or publishers trying to sue second hand book stores.
You don't see Phillips and Sony trying to go after second DVD sellers either.

I'm sure the games industry can come up with many arguments as to why they are somehow unique and the laws of trade do not apply to them, but the reality is the principal is no different, they're just being greedy.

Besides, with the explosion of MMOs, in game and on server advertising, there is no good reason second hand games can't make both developers and publishers a lot of money.

 

[About To Crash]

The reason you don't hear a lot about this is you can't pirate a or sell a used cinema.

You could steal the reels and take pictures of each film cell, you could bring a camera and record the whole movie, but those will be pale imitations of even (il)legitimate home copies.

Also, since most of the money in film is in cinema... Not a whole lot to complain about there.

Ah, I should have seen. Thanks.

I think second hand games should be sold, but maybe a portion of each game sold from a store, regardless of new or used quality, goes to the developers. I guess I just want the developers to succeed, publishers I care a little less about.

 

[Daelda]

If used games are piracy (i.e. - theft), then used cars, used TVs, previously owned homes, are all theft as well.

If Developers wish to make more money off of a game that may be sold used - do what other industries do - sell parts/add-ons (like DLCs/MTs), but leave the base game alone.

 

[theaceplaya]

I'd love to buy all of my games new and I know if I were a game developer I'd want to be supported, but let's be real here. If 3 games that I want come out in the same month, that's $180 which is a pretty significant amount to some people.

 

[anyGould]

Wow, that poll isn't biased at all... I can be a dirty pirate or a cheapskate. Nice.

Agreed. I mean, yes, if I'm buying a game second hand it should be decreased in price, but yes, I also believe the developers should get a piece of their games' sales from Retail stores. Obviously there's no way to curtail the exchange of games in between friends, or just people putting out an add and selling games they own. Here's the thing: I don't see anyone actively complaining about movies being bought second-hand, and I'd hazard a guess that they're being pirated more than games are. I'd need to see some numbers, like how much developers are losing as a result of second-hand purchases.

There's a fallacy there - that developers are somehow "losing money" that they're entitled to from second hand sales. If I buy a used Ford, Ford doesn't get any money from me. Random House doesn't get a cut of used book sales. I'm buying a house, and the construction firm that built it won't see a penny. If I sell my DVDs, the movie studios don't get a cut. Can anyone name an industry where they get cuts of second-hand sales?