Question of the Day, Feb. 20, 2010
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
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Thanks for clarifying. If it's a single player game, sure, it is your own choice. I prefer to beat the game "honestly." I don't like to use guides, and even if I do, it kinda feels like cheating to me, that I didn't work out the problem on my own.Macar said:
I don't play any multiplayer games, but yeah, it would be cheating and very not cool when dealing with other people.
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But yeah, it's not the most popular opinion in this culture of whining, but I believe that bugs, glitches, and imbalances are not cheats.
But yeah, it's not the most popular opinion in this culture of whining, but I believe that bugs, glitches, and imbalances are not cheats.
There should really be a depends option as it really does depend on the bug or kind of bug. Are we talking that javelin thing from MW2 or are me talking the uber rocket jumps of TF2 or the jumps in CoD games?Susan Arendt said:
Using a bug/exploit is cheating no matter the circumstances. However, whether or not anyone else is affected by your cheating is the real question. Multiplayer = bad, Singleplayer = ok. As long as your not hurting anyone, advancing a singleplayer quickly (rpg) isn't going to hurt anyone.
What makes cheating in single-player mode not cheating anymore? If you find a bug and use it as to your advantage, it is cheating. That can be either against humans or against AI, but in both scenario's it's cheating. No diffrence. Next time try to beat the game fair and sqaure, like the developers intended 2.Trivun said:
If the circumstances are such that the developers didn't notice the fault in the coding, how is it cheating if you take advantage? Do you personally report every single bug you find in a game? I know I don't, but I don't spend a lot of time looking around in games for flaws to exploit either. If it happens, it happens. If the programmers notice it, they will put out a patch or an update to fix it. If they don't, then why do you feel bad about them giving up on fixing something?
It isn't your fault that there is a problem with the game, unless you were a programmer on the game in the question.
It isn't your fault that there is a problem with the game, unless you were a programmer on the game in the question.
I'm just gonna start-off by saying that my post is referring specifically to competitive situations. Be it people comparing their progress in a non-PvP situation, or fragging each other directly, I feel that cheating, exploiting, and so forth only really matters when you're trying to compare your feats to that of someone else. If it's purely a single-player game and you aren't in any form of race (or whatever) with someone else, then do whatever you want. That said, my thoughts on bug exploiting are such:
It depends on the glitch and the situation. 'Nuff said for those who tend to go tldr on you, but I'll go into detail about what I mean for those who want a little more meat on their plate:
In some cases, exploiting a bug is considered 100% viable. Take for example Super Metroid. There's loads upon loads of bugs in that game which players can, and do, take advantage. However, it isn't really considered cheating when they do it because it's all in the name of speed-running and over-all just having fun with the game. Learning how to work the mechanics of the glitches is considered to be all a part of the challenge in doing a successful speed run. If you want to try and beat the current record for speed-running the game, you better be willing to practice some funky techniques. The bugs tend to be very specific in how they're performed (to the point where the average person has a one-in-a-million shot of accidentally tripping them), so it's actually harder to play the game using the bugs. Thus, it's considered a viable means of comparing your achievements to other players.
Then you have cases where a bug is both easily performed, AND makes the game easier in some way. When exploited in a competitive environment, I consider it to be whole-sale cheating. It can be a bigger deal in some games than others, but cheating is cheating. If I'm playing a pub game of Team Fortress 2 and someone exploits a glitch to kill me, then it's cheating. I'm not gonna throw a huge fit about it and it isn't a big deal because nothing's really at stake. At worst I'll just find a different server to play on (or stop playing the game until the bug is fixed if it's rampant). However, if I'm playing a tournament with my clan against another clan and they start exploiting a bug to win, then it's crossing a line. I still won't throw a huge fit about it (since my experience with trolls and exploiters is that they'll just do it more), but I'd certainly file a petition with the tournament holders to strike the match from the records due to cheating. If they don't, I'd find a new tournament venue to play from.
Then you have cases like the infamous banning of an infamous high-end raiding guild in World of Warcraft for exploiting the final encounter of the current expansion. I stand 100% behind Blizzard on their decision to do so. Not only is this a guild that's been known to exploit in the past and got away scot-free, but then they had the balls to exploit on the biggest and most anticipated boss in the game. On top of this, it's a well known rule in the ToU that you have to agree to in order to even play the game that knowingly exploiting a bug is ban-worthy. So the guild knew what they were doing. They knew how Blizzard could react. They did it anyway.
So yeah, for a tldr wrap-up: Some glitches take skill to trigger and can actually make the game harder to play than just doing it normally, where other glitches simply make the game easier. In single player I don't really care one way or the other. In a competitive environment, however, the former is generally acceptable because it's hard to complain about someone making the game harder on themselves and still beating you, where using the latter form of bugs to exploit the game is cheating no matter how you want to slice it. How big of a deal it is to use the cheats would be another debate entirely, but cheating is cheating.
It depends on the glitch and the situation. 'Nuff said for those who tend to go tldr on you, but I'll go into detail about what I mean for those who want a little more meat on their plate:
In some cases, exploiting a bug is considered 100% viable. Take for example Super Metroid. There's loads upon loads of bugs in that game which players can, and do, take advantage. However, it isn't really considered cheating when they do it because it's all in the name of speed-running and over-all just having fun with the game. Learning how to work the mechanics of the glitches is considered to be all a part of the challenge in doing a successful speed run. If you want to try and beat the current record for speed-running the game, you better be willing to practice some funky techniques. The bugs tend to be very specific in how they're performed (to the point where the average person has a one-in-a-million shot of accidentally tripping them), so it's actually harder to play the game using the bugs. Thus, it's considered a viable means of comparing your achievements to other players.
Then you have cases where a bug is both easily performed, AND makes the game easier in some way. When exploited in a competitive environment, I consider it to be whole-sale cheating. It can be a bigger deal in some games than others, but cheating is cheating. If I'm playing a pub game of Team Fortress 2 and someone exploits a glitch to kill me, then it's cheating. I'm not gonna throw a huge fit about it and it isn't a big deal because nothing's really at stake. At worst I'll just find a different server to play on (or stop playing the game until the bug is fixed if it's rampant). However, if I'm playing a tournament with my clan against another clan and they start exploiting a bug to win, then it's crossing a line. I still won't throw a huge fit about it (since my experience with trolls and exploiters is that they'll just do it more), but I'd certainly file a petition with the tournament holders to strike the match from the records due to cheating. If they don't, I'd find a new tournament venue to play from.
Then you have cases like the infamous banning of an infamous high-end raiding guild in World of Warcraft for exploiting the final encounter of the current expansion. I stand 100% behind Blizzard on their decision to do so. Not only is this a guild that's been known to exploit in the past and got away scot-free, but then they had the balls to exploit on the biggest and most anticipated boss in the game. On top of this, it's a well known rule in the ToU that you have to agree to in order to even play the game that knowingly exploiting a bug is ban-worthy. So the guild knew what they were doing. They knew how Blizzard could react. They did it anyway.
So yeah, for a tldr wrap-up: Some glitches take skill to trigger and can actually make the game harder to play than just doing it normally, where other glitches simply make the game easier. In single player I don't really care one way or the other. In a competitive environment, however, the former is generally acceptable because it's hard to complain about someone making the game harder on themselves and still beating you, where using the latter form of bugs to exploit the game is cheating no matter how you want to slice it. How big of a deal it is to use the cheats would be another debate entirely, but cheating is cheating.
In singleplayer it's fine and dandy, and can lead to some hilarious shenanigans, but in multiplayer it's just annoying.
it all depenmds...using a bug in the level design (like a handy set of makeshift stairs on l4d2) to progress isnt relaly
but bugs like the care package glitch
thats cheating
but bugs like the care package glitch
thats cheating
I'd say cheating is the wrong word for it because it IS in the codeing and that means that it has either been overlooked or left there on purpose. If it's the former then that is the creators fault, if it's the latter than there is a reason.
If a person uses a bug in a single player game it is fine, if it's used in a MMO then it is wrong and should be punished. I'd say cheating is the wrong word, it's just expolting the system and it can be wrong.
EDIT: Just for the record, I AM with Blizzards actions against the guild, while they were not cheating per say, what they did was wrong.
Also, yes I know that most of my wording is based around semantics but really cheating and glitch finding are two very different things. A cheat is something that changes thwe workings of a game, a glitch is already in the game.
If a person uses a bug in a single player game it is fine, if it's used in a MMO then it is wrong and should be punished. I'd say cheating is the wrong word, it's just expolting the system and it can be wrong.
EDIT: Just for the record, I AM with Blizzards actions against the guild, while they were not cheating per say, what they did was wrong.
Also, yes I know that most of my wording is based around semantics but really cheating and glitch finding are two very different things. A cheat is something that changes thwe workings of a game, a glitch is already in the game.
Anything bug that gives you an advantage over others in multiplayer would be considered cheating in my book. But if it's single player, and it's a bug for something like extra money, then it's not cheating at all. I guess it's only cheating to me if it takes fun out of the game.
Using bugs in a game (to win) is like 'blood packing' in a sport. All you're doing is using your own blood, but its still cheating. But if your just joking around with friends and you want to mess with them then its alright (unfortunately the 'blood packing' example doesn't fit so well here...)
Just repeating the general concensus here: exploiting a bug in multiplayer is bad behaviour, in single-player games it generally affects only the cheater.
Personally I shun away from bugs that turn the game into a walk in the park, I just don't see the point in it. Games are voluntary challenges after all.
There are exceptions of course. One game had an incredibly cheap boss fight where the boss jumped around like Jiminy Cricket, killing the player instantly if it landed on you, and shooting balls of magma (ouch). The fight was a first-person shooter on a small arena riddled with knee-high obstacles that you got stuck in very easily (and couldn't see obviously, keeping an eye upwards for the looming boss). Oh, and did I mention the only weak spot the boss had was on it's back?
So yeah, when after countless tries I got the boss glitched so that it just spun in a corner I didn't hesitate to exploit that. It was either that or never see how the game ends.
Personally I shun away from bugs that turn the game into a walk in the park, I just don't see the point in it. Games are voluntary challenges after all.
There are exceptions of course. One game had an incredibly cheap boss fight where the boss jumped around like Jiminy Cricket, killing the player instantly if it landed on you, and shooting balls of magma (ouch). The fight was a first-person shooter on a small arena riddled with knee-high obstacles that you got stuck in very easily (and couldn't see obviously, keeping an eye upwards for the looming boss). Oh, and did I mention the only weak spot the boss had was on it's back?
So yeah, when after countless tries I got the boss glitched so that it just spun in a corner I didn't hesitate to exploit that. It was either that or never see how the game ends.
