Question of the Day, May 5, 2010

Nimzar

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Nov 30, 2009
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Grouchy Imp said:
Fantasy is a genre in which anything is possible, fair do's. But Science Fiction should have at least a nodding acquaintance with reality in order to enable greater suspension of disbelief - without of course completely neglecting the 'Fiction' element of it's title.
Exactly.

Specifically, I feel that natural laws that you learn about in grade school should not be wantonly disregarded.

Suspension of Disbelief (SoD) is an agreement between the Audience and the members of the production. The audience agrees to suspend there disbelief and accept the performance as reality. The members of the production agree to create an environment that allows the audience to fulfill there role without being in danger of having that suspension of disbelief shattered.

In different genres the extent to which the audience is expected to suspend their disbelief is... well different. Realist fiction requires that disbelief is suspended only a bit. Fantasy requires that disbelief is suspended far enough to allow almost anything (though the rules within the created mythology should be fairly consistent). Science Fiction is somewhere in between.

In summary: I think that Science Fiction should be a balance of Science and Fiction without disregarding either.
 

Slycne

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Feb 19, 2006
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For fiction, fantasy, science fiction, etc the important thing is that it it's associated with the world that's been created. Yes, magical fireballs and teleportation are not possible, but they can be accepted in a world that introduces them as part of the setting. The problem becomes when you being to break your setting by not properly introducing elements. You shouldn't for example, have fantasy hero suddenly stops throwing fireballs and pulls out a machine gun with no explanation of how.
 

Vitor Goncalves

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Mar 22, 2010
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Well science fiction is science fiction because it is based on scientific concepts and theories that are either in a very rudimentar application status or not understood enough to make a pratical use of it, yet. People mentions fiction to justify it to not be based on reality at all, but fiction doenst mean not based in reality at all just means the story details are not fully to be found anywhere in real life, past or present. What people have been dfining in most posts so far is actually fantasy (not in the "official" art genre but in its broad genre), not fiction.

If you think about Julio Verne and his works in the middle of the 19th century he foretold things like the submarine, the spaceship and the telephone. But it based himself on knowledge and technologies available at his time, and depicted possible scenarios. Telegraphes existed already, and the telephone is like a second generation of land lines telecomunications, Verne imagined that step a few decades before it happened. There were submarines already at his time and even much earlier, almost 2 centuries earlier, but were basically prototypes. Verne imagined them reliable enough for a pratical use. And there were hot air baloons, which he explores in several novels, when he mentioned space flight he imagined flight taking a few more steps ahead, and wasnt that far either, not long after his dead the first attempts to launch rockets to space were made, and half a century later Russia was sending the first space shuttle and puting the first satelite in orbit, and further more 13 years US was making men land on the moon.

As for fantasy it uses concepts in nothing related to reality, mostly based in magic and religion. I don't say they can't coexist in the same fiction, they can and they do many times but are too totally diferent elements. Science fiction is rational, fantasy is irrational, in a sort of speaking. Fantasy allows a guy with a cloak and a scepter to cast frostbolts spontaneously from his hands, or to transform himself in a dragon, or to evoke tidal waves with some special words. No rules, no principles just imagination going totally wild.

What can make some science fiction look irrational its not so much related to concepts but I would say more to the extent some technology would be applied. For example, many times earth was imagined at the beggining of the 21st century covered with megalopolis, 1km high buildings, massive mag-lev like rail networks, huge widescreens, massive computer networks and everybody with their single or family size aircraft. That didnt happen and likely never will not because its not possible scientifically, it is, but because the amount of resources needed to do that are just not available. We probably would need to colonise other planets and undergo massive mining campaigns to transform earth in that massive technopolis. Later sci-fi works since the middle 90's are aware of those limitations, and you all know mining facilities in other planets became a cliche of modern sci-fi.

So sci-fi gives you something that at light of science you think could be possible in time based on this and this and if we do this and this, while fantasy gives you something you probably think you wish it could be possible but there is no way that can happen in the real universe unless there are these divinities, and titans, and fairies and gnomes hidding from us and would grant all those wishes to us.
 

8bitlove2a03

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Mar 25, 2010
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I think anything should be possible, but I need to qualify that by saying this: anything can be possible, so long as it is possible within the established canon of the fictional universe. So long as it makes sense within the terms of the universe it is taking place in, then it is acceptable. For instance, within the realm of Star Wars there are numerous things that are completely implausible, but so long as they fit within the universe that has been created it is perfectly acceptable. On the other hand most everything in the Stargate universe is completely plausible, so you can't suddenly have wizards and actual demons showing up because it would be contradictory to the established canon and themes.
 

Strategia

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Mar 21, 2008
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There's a difference between hard science fiction and soft science fiction, and I like them both. "Sci-fi" as a whole shouldn't be forced into one or the other mold, in the same way that not ever tragedy play has to be set in classical Greece.
 

Omikron009

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May 22, 2009
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I wish there was more than one choice. I like sci-fi to obey some laws of physics, but pure hard sci-fi is really boring. I like something somewhere in the middle, like....say.....the mass effect games. Although I still do love the sheer ridonculousness of something like warhammer 40k.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
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Science fiction covers the spectrum from "I have discovered anti-matter-BOOM!" to "I'm on planet Flippant firing lasers made out of dark matter and riding raptors while flying through the cosmos on a ship made of hair!". Science fiction for me really is anything that is scientific or related to space and involving fiction.
 

Veret

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Apr 1, 2009
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DuX1112 said:
I'll just quote Arthur C. Clarke, who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Hence, I think EVERYTHING is possible in SF - the only distinction between fantasy and science fiction being that the events and themes of things pertaining to the SF genre CAN be scientifically EXPLAINED. But they don't necessarily have to be explained in such a manner (it really depends on the language of the author).

I voted "Everything is possible". Even an invisible pink unicorn (genetically modified + invisibility tech = voila!). And yes, even a planet made of ice cream (Douglas Adams), and robots that can feel pain in their robotic limbs, along with "ancient gods" in the future (Ilium, Olympos by Dan Simmons), or "the" Buddha himself (Lord of Light, by Zelazny) etc.

For example, I love 2001: A Space Odissey with all its precise science, and Star Trek, but I also love Homeworld (a blend beteen explained science and implied science), and at the other end, I also absolutely LOVE Star Wars.

I think Clarke's thought deserves another mention:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Cheers, good Sirs! :)
To bring up a very relevant quote by Terry Pratchett: "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

The way Pratchett constructs his Discworld universe is actually a lot closer to hard science fiction than Dr. Who will ever be. He uses one or two made up elements, gives some fairly specific rules for how they work, and then follows those rules to build his setting. The only reason Discworld is fantasy is because Pratchett calls his phlebotinum "magic" instead of "dark energy," or "element zero," or any other pseudoscientific term. Similarly, Dr. Who is just a straight up fantasy show that happens to say "sonic screwdriver" instead of "magic wand," and "force field" instead of "magic bubble."

Of course, both are just fine by me. Without pseudoscientific BS we would never have space operas, and that's a pretty large volume of quality entertainment that I'd rather not lose.

Koeryn said:
You folks really don't like the middle ground, do you?
This. A thousand times this. Can we please start including an "other" option for those of us with complex opinions?[footnote]That's not a jab at anyone; some of us just don't fall neatly into one side of a debate.[/footnote]
 

RyQ_TMC

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Apr 24, 2009
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I think authors should be allowed some artistic license in their science. After all, what direction scientific progress will take us is still a matter of speculation... 50 years ago, it was robots. Now, it is biotechnology.

I like meself some Greg Egan-level hard science fiction, but I am fine with adding a few purely fantastical elements to make the setting click. Drew Karpyshyn pulled Element Zero out of his backside and does Mass Effect feel wrong because of that?

What I expect from science fiction, however, is a lack of "A Wizard Did It" cop-outs. If you have tundra bordering a jungle in a fantasy setting, you can explain it with "y'see, there was this daemon guy and he kinda made it so". In science fiction, that's not allowed. In science fiction, laws of physics still apply. Sometimes, you can find a way around them by intoducing a fantastical element, but don't go too far.

If it contradicts our current scientific knowledge, it just feels wrong. Well, a few things like FTL travel are usually allowed if they are explained by the setting's Phlebotinum, but genetic memory? Seriously? As much as I enjoy playing the Assassin's Creed games, the premise itself is really shaky, and they went beyond ridiculous with the ending of AC2.
 

pyrus7

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Mar 16, 2010
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A lot of people are getting hung up on the word fiction. Having your work be fiction is not a license to do whatever you want; fiction merely means that it is not factual. Most novels and sitcoms are fiction. Yet one would scream bullshit if there were dragons and aliens in an episode of Friends, even though Friends is entirely fiction.


To me, science fiction differs from fantasy in the sense that the former usually offers some explanation (that is grounded in science) to its fantastical elements. There is a difference between:
A human has regenerative healing powers because....of magic!
A human has regenerative healing powers because of nanobots in his bloodstream that repair damaged cells, or a mutant gene that boosts his natural healing abilities, or he's actually an alien and has different biology than humans.

There are dragons flying in the sky because....dragons exist!
There are dragons flying in the sky because of genetic experiments, or its actually an advanced aircraft that looks like a dragon, or its an extraterrestrial lifeform.
 

Iffypop

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Apr 2, 2008
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Science Fiction is something like "Foundation" or "I, Robot" by Isaac Asimov.
Fantasy is something like Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter.

Things people mistake for Sci-Fi like Star Wars are best described as Science-Fantasy.

Simples
 

Kajin

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Apr 13, 2008
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It's as plausible as it wants to be. As far as I'm concerned, the only true way to tell science from magic as far as fiction is concerned is if the author themselves tells us what it is.
 

Ithera

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Apr 4, 2010
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I dunno people, Science fiction and other non realistic genres have a habit of making stuff up. There are many examples of "makingshitup" in Science fiction. Teleporters? Machines that create food out of thin air? Futuristic spaceships capable of traveling ludicrous distances at a moments notice?

Yes yes yes, come 500 years maybe this suddenly becomes a beautiful reality. The Magic...erm, sorry...the wonders of modern science triumphs and I can have a condo on Jupiter.

Then again, in 500 years me may finally find Hogwarts.
 

skcseth

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May 25, 2009
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The stuff that hits closer to home, makes a better story for me personally.