Quick Time Redux
Shamus offers a few ways that quick time events might be made to suck less.
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Shamus offers a few ways that quick time events might be made to suck less.
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Quick Time Redux
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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Speaking as a guy who wrote one of those Which Games do QTEs Right? [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.217755-Which-Games-Do-QTEs-Right] threads pretty quick after reading Stolen Pixels, it was an attempt to try to figure out the best possible ways to do these if we have to, and to get rid of them if at all possible.
Also, most people didn't listen when I asked them not to trot out God of War as an example.
Also, most people didn't listen when I asked them not to trot out God of War as an example.
Oh goodness yes, to the PC ports thing. It seems manufacturers have been getting more and more lazy with PC ports recently--or maybe I've just run across more lazy ones. Even The Force Unleashed was almost unbearably bad on PC.
God of War (III) does exactly what you suggested- it flashes the icon on the side of the screen so that you aren't looking away from the action. At first I found that that actually detracted even more, because out of reflex, I stare to the side and look at the button thinking,"It might be different this one time (it never is)."
Eventually I got used to it, but by then the game was already almost over...
God of War does them right because they are usually just "MASH CIRCLE" and that seems to work well to indicate a repeated move, i.e. STAB STAB STAB STAB.
Eventually I got used to it, but by then the game was already almost over...
God of War does them right because they are usually just "MASH CIRCLE" and that seems to work well to indicate a repeated move, i.e. STAB STAB STAB STAB.
Funny you should mention suggestion #1. God of War 3 actually did exactly this, and I thought it worked wonderfully. It took a tiny bit of getting used to watching my peripheral vision for the prompts on the side of the screen, but it kept the action going on right in front without getting blocked.
I agree 100%. God of War does QTE alright, although I still end up missing the action because I'm so worried about missing one of the 5 button presses I need to tear a Minotaur's head off or whatever it is. Seems to me, in the case of action games, you don't need QTE's whatsoever. There's usually a special button for activating stuff, right? How about when you beat up an enemy to a certain point, there's 1 queue - maybe your character makes a specific and obvious motion/change of stance, maybe there's a DING sound, maybe there's a glow on the enemy. Either way, hitting your activate button (ie: the one to open doors and talk to people) will cause you to do the cool kill moves, and from there you can do whatever you want like - build your own kill move. Maybe there'd be a timing to it, so the better your timing the more moves you can pull off to make it more epic and a much crazier and more satisfying kill. You could do a simple punch/kick/throw or a stab/kick/slice or whatever, but if your timing is perfect you could wind up completely dismembering your target.
In a sense, a little bit like The Witcher combat (timing based)
In a sense, a little bit like The Witcher combat (timing based)
The only problem with #1 is that some games use the triggers as well as the face buttons. You could just try putting those prompts in the corners, but then there are the left and right buttons (different name for playstation but in the same place)! Where would those go?
obviously HEAVY RAIN covers the QTE, but i would hate to see it invading other games where you couldn't expect such stuff. coding stuff is a good compromise for PC, symbols for actions in mercenaries 2, but why not have us use the same buttons without the popup symbols? like having it disablable in menu.
The only quicktime-type thing I've ever enjoyed in a game is in Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones.
What made it work was:
1. The prompt was just a flash, no icon for a game controller button.
2. The system only ever used one button, it was simply about timing hit the button when you see the flash and the character pulls off a cool move.
3. The penalty for failure was never "reload and try again." If you missed the timing, all you missed was the quick stealth kill. You'd then just have to fight the enemy normally (which was also fun - key point there as well).
One of the key things that developers don't seem to get is that quicktime events don't have to be hard to be fun. The point is to show you a cutscene or a cool move that you can't do in the regular game engine while giving you a sense that you are doing something instead of just watching. Since when does anyone want a difficult cutscene?
What made it work was:
1. The prompt was just a flash, no icon for a game controller button.
2. The system only ever used one button, it was simply about timing hit the button when you see the flash and the character pulls off a cool move.
3. The penalty for failure was never "reload and try again." If you missed the timing, all you missed was the quick stealth kill. You'd then just have to fight the enemy normally (which was also fun - key point there as well).
One of the key things that developers don't seem to get is that quicktime events don't have to be hard to be fun. The point is to show you a cutscene or a cool move that you can't do in the regular game engine while giving you a sense that you are doing something instead of just watching. Since when does anyone want a difficult cutscene?
The worst QTEs I've ever seen were in Spider-Man 3 for Xbox 360. Couldn't tell you how many controllers I was out once I reached the credits. Too many. So I just hate on QTEs in general now. If you're gonna do them, then take a cue from Heavy Rain, and have a scene keep going even if you miss a button. Making us watch the same cutscene over and over is NOT good gameplay.
I invented the perfect solution(for when there absolutely has to be any indication onscreen):
***this system requires inteligence and creativity to make it work***
1.cutscene is differentiated from eventscene(music would be appropirately demistealthy)
2.stopped or slowed time
3.let it be multiple options,each represents an idea(one of em is the fastest route)
4.ideas clearly associated with buttons/logics the player already understands
5.options are visualised thoughts(= transparent parts of imagined reality)
6.there is some kind of shadow getting thinner as the idea is vanishing with time(happens only in slowtime scenes)
7.multiple logical ways to trigger specific action(action/direction based)
8.neglect=/=instant death
shamus has some ideas I agree with(enviro prompts obviously HR)
***this system requires inteligence and creativity to make it work***
1.cutscene is differentiated from eventscene(music would be appropirately demistealthy)
2.stopped or slowed time
3.let it be multiple options,each represents an idea(one of em is the fastest route)
4.ideas clearly associated with buttons/logics the player already understands
5.options are visualised thoughts(= transparent parts of imagined reality)
6.there is some kind of shadow getting thinner as the idea is vanishing with time(happens only in slowtime scenes)
7.multiple logical ways to trigger specific action(action/direction based)
8.neglect=/=instant death
shamus has some ideas I agree with(enviro prompts obviously HR)
They're such an immersion-breaker it's unreal.
Honestly, I'd much rather just watch Starkiller kill the enemy in a cutscene after I'd taken away all their health. I've never played through one where I feel like I'm doing anything anyway.
Honestly, I'd much rather just watch Starkiller kill the enemy in a cutscene after I'd taken away all their health. I've never played through one where I feel like I'm doing anything anyway.
Oh dear God, you actually needed real-life fucking Spidey sense to hit those things.Tarakos said:
Only problem I see with number 1 is the tunnel-vision effect when you get so focused on the action in the centre. Although the in-game markers on objects would be a nice change to that.Shamus Young said:
And difficulty-related QTEs; yes please. On easy you could make them completely automatic or just make every button an action and then gradually reduce the time to complete it or subtract any help markers. So many better possibilities.
On the plus side, bringing down the Star Destroyer on the PC version is so much easier than the console versions. On the xBox it takes me 4 or 5 tries, on the PC I can do it in 3.porschecm2 said:
As a whole, I have never much liked QTEs, they always seem to be a half assed attempt to add more gameplay. I want to watch a cut/pre rendered scene, not have to woory about pressing X at certain times while missing it.
I must be the only mutant here who doesn't have much of a problem with QTEs (except for the ones that pop up randomly in cutscenes, like Bayonetta). Maybe it's because I can switch focus pretty fast so I can see the action and the appropriate button prompt I can do one and enjoy the other. Ninja Blade (eh, mostly. those QTEs were graded for some dumb reason, and why the hell do I need a cutscene to show me jumping a gap?), God of War, even way back with the iconic Shenmue (though the issue with them popping up in cutscenes probably started there), they don't bother me at all.
So long as I can still make a minotaur choke on his own regurgitated blood, still swat a wrecking ball as if I was playing badminton, and can still fold up a 20-foot-tall bipedal automaton like an empty wallet, QTEs are okay in my book.
So long as I can still make a minotaur choke on his own regurgitated blood, still swat a wrecking ball as if I was playing badminton, and can still fold up a 20-foot-tall bipedal automaton like an empty wallet, QTEs are okay in my book.
