Racist tram woman watches video evidence; denies everything

[SenseOfTumour]

I'd suggest that putting the whole race issue aside for a moment, she was being massively abusive and offensive in public, and surely 'breach of the peace' is enough to nail her.

I'm not saying 'lock her up', but arresting her and taking her away til she calms down and remembers how rational human beings are supposed to behave to other people, is probably a good idea.

If she's repeatedly caught and cautioned, then it's time for court. A simple warning that extended unwarranted abuse in any form will not be tolerated would suit me fine.

I can't imagine if I, for about 10 minutes straight, sat on a packed train and yelled that everyone on here is a **** and should fuck off and I hate you all, I wouldn't be at least thrown off by the guard, and ideally be arrested at the next station.

I would however, suggest she's getting legal advice and been advised to say nothing.

What I'd LIKE, is for her to admit that she did wrong in her actions, (again putting aside the race issue, acting like that, even when you're not surrounded by kids is unacceptable) then so long as she understands that and agrees to moderate herself in future, a warning and draw a line under it.

Unfortunately, I sense she'd gained a level of infamy and will be gaining more abuse from the public that she managed to rain down on a tramful of a passengers. I just hope no-one is stupid enough to get violent.

As for the case of the 'cat in the bin' lady, do you really think Britain cares more about racism than a cat being picked up and dropped in a bin? Look at the number of posts online supporting her, no-one was saying the cat deserved it

It is also being overlooked that she has mental problems, many times people with these problems just don't have the 'filter', or need medication to stop just coming out with all sorts of nonsense. Which again, I'd happily blame on the media, both stigmatising mental health and labelling anyone who's not actively in a wheelchair but with mental health problems as a filthy leeching piece of welfare scum who's faking everything.

We're either a potential murderer, or a faker just after a free ride. A decade ago, she'd have been on a list, being kept an eye on, making sure she's taking her medication etc, but now they just hand out a prescription and yell 'NEXT!', because mental health isn't profitable.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I do think, that while racism is a problem it gets too much attention in SOME ways, in the media.

I remember when Cheryl Cole violently attacked a bathroom attendant in a nightclub.

The papers were all over the fact that she said 'black *****', yet the fact that she punched the poor woman in the face was a minor detail.

Now I obviously can't understand how it feels to be racially abused, but I'm gonna go ahead and guess most black people, given the choice, would take 'black *****' over a punch in the face.

Yet the tone of most of the articles was that the racism was far more offensive than the physical assault.

 

[dashiz94]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

Hate Speech isn't covered by Free Speech.

Since when? Skokie vs. National Socalist Party (Nazis) anyone?

 

[TheMagicLemur]

...While all of us working class are having a hard time to keep afloat, so everyone is feeling the pinch at moment, except for the insanely rich, and of course the immigrants.

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

Yeah, you're totally right. This isn't xenophobic at all.

You seriously sound like an American redneck yelling at an immigrant "SPEAK 'MER'CAN HERE IN 'MERICA!".

And I like how you imagine the immigrants aren't having a hard time at all. It's just the native-born folks. That's really truly brilliant.

This is good though, because talking to you helps me keep in mind that ill-informed, vaguely-racist right-wingers aren't uniquely American.

 

[Treblaine]

These ladies who sit on trains and trams screaming out these obscenities have no excuse and are clearly idiots. Anyone who thinks they have close to a point are also retarded

So those who break down just once should be imprisoned and be separated from their family forever?

I would smack that ***** so hard her tits would spin.

Why not physical violence and some sexism to boot?!?!? What... what the FUCK happened to this website?!?!?

This will only embolden the hardcore skinhead-racists. You think hate can be matched with hate.

You think this sort of violent rhetoric and over-reactionary prison sentences and breaking up of families is the right way to defeat with racism and xenophobia? Take a step back and fucking look at yourself.

I shoved an elderly lady through the doors of a tram when she called me a "Jävla invandare"

You disgust me.

As a carer of the elderly that, that is almost inconceivable that you'd do that... that's bad enough but you seem bloody proud of it. Proud of it?! People say shit all the time, it's just words. You know how all these cases of abuse begin in care homes? Of elderly and infirm ladies being beaten and starved? One day they are a bit rude - because they are crotchety and old - and some FUCKING BULLY just uses that as an excuse to lash out at them!

Take a look at yourself. Ask yourself, are you a bully?

You know what you should have done when she said "Jävla invandare" to you? You should have offered your hand to help her on the tram. And proved she was wrong about you.

But you didn't you didn't just reaffirm her prejudice... you may have just proven her right.

You condemn his actions but condone the old lady's? You sir are a hypocrite. You said yourself, "hate with hate" but apparently her hate is okay? I don't even know what that phrase means, but I'll assume it's some slur, Personally I would have just told her off, very colourfully, but you can't sit here and tell me that what she did was okay. She was being the bully, and he responded to it. She probably thought that she could get away with whatever she said because no one would say anything back to an old lady, using her age as a defence, and to you apparently an excuse, to bully and insult people. If all he did was push her off the train, That's hardly bullying. Maybe if he punched her in the face, which was likely coming if she didn't shut up.

and sexism, really? Because someone mentions tits they are sexist now? how about we go find every woman who said "punch him in the nuts" and call them sexist too? That comment has nothing bad to say about her sex, if she were male instead of female, the comment would have been adjusted accordingly. maybe to something like, "I'd punch him in the nuts", would that have been sexist to you? It's sex specific, not sexist.

When did I condone the Old Lady's actions?

Giving her a hand wasn't to condone her, it was to PROVE HER WRONG! Yes, she, wrong. Violence and cruelty cannot be the answer to racism.

It cannot be.

I actually said "You think hate can be matched with hate." never did I use the phrase "hate with hate" that you are wrong to assume is a slur.

"you can't sit here and tell me that what she did was okay."

When did I say it was OK? You think KINDNESS means agreement?

"using her age as a defence"

The elderly are the most vulnerable people in our society, second only to small children though probably more so as they don't have dedicated carers. Surely you have heard of all the cases of abuses in care homes.

If all he did was push her off the train, That's hardly bullying. Maybe if he punched her in the face, which was likely coming if she didn't shut up.

What the hell has gotten into you? Pushing an old lady off a tram not bullying? There is NOTHING ANYONE can say to ever justify punching and old lady in the face!

Is there something you haven't told us? Have you been a victim of racism? Violent attack by you from another race? Or serious discrimination of some other sort? Because you seem to have totally lost perspective of the situation.

 

[Commissar Sae]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

Hate Speech isn't covered by Free Speech.

Actually, it is. Anything is covered by free speech, that's why it's free. Whether or not it's covered by the first amendment is another matter entirely.

I don't remember if "hate speech" is protected by the first amendment, but I don't see how insulting people can be illegal, and if insulting people in one way is legal, than it should be legal to insult people in any way you choose.

Also, I'm pretty sure hate speech is protected considering the crap that Westburo Baptist get's away with saying.

I feel silly for having to say this but: Britain doesn't follow American laws. The UK doesn't technically have 100% free speech. Or I'm assuming as Canada doesn't and we follow a similar law code where freedom of speech is concerned.

I feel silly for having to say this but: Am I talking to myself here? I never said that it was protected, I said that it should be. See up there in my first post, I even bolded it this time.

I addressed American law specifically for two reasons: Because I assumed that's what the person was talking about when they said "free speech," and because it is the country I live in and it is therefore the model of Free speech that I am most familiar with.

I think the escapist is cutting-off my original post because of the 3 quote limit, but if you really worried about it that much look at the post I quoted, I very clearly said should initially.

Unless you quote or direct your response towards someone you are kind of talking to yourself. More importantly you are talking to the entirety of the forum. Indeed, you did put a qualificative 'should' there.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but also it should be fairly obvious from the context of the OP that British law was the one being discussed.

 

[new_age_reject]

Once again the crazy right wing controlled media blows everything out of proportion and takes it out of context to spread hatred and ignorance within the community.
Don't just take everything a newspaper tells you as fact just because it's printed.

 

[Jazoni89]

...While all of us working class are having a hard time to keep afloat, so everyone is feeling the pinch at moment, except for the insanely rich, and of course the immigrants.

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

Yeah, you're totally right. This isn't xenophobic at all.

You seriously sound like an American redneck yelling at an immigrant "SPEAK 'MER'CAN HERE IN 'MERICA!".

And I like how you imagine the immigrants aren't having a hard time at all. It's just the native-born folks. That's really truly brilliant.

This is good though, because talking to you helps me keep in mind that ill-informed, vaguely-racist right-wingers aren't uniquely American.

Burkas are a symbol of Islamic empowerment, and yes people do get offended by it, many in fact.

As i said i washed my hands with all of you now, so please have a good day.

 

[Darkmantle]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

No it's not. so yes you are justifying it you horrible racist.

Whoa whoa WHOOOOA! Hold on there!

You call jazoni a "horrible racist" for suggesting that high levels of immigration might merely be "an issue"? You're saying Jazoli justified her uncouth outburst just because there may be something worth looking at on the basis of this issue?

Do you realise what you are saying?

This is thought-crime!

This is censorship of the worst order!

When did the issue of immigration become a form of blasphemy?

you know what, I disagree with you, so

I'M GOING TO GO TO SOMEWHERE YOU FREQUENT AND SCREAM AT YOU FOR 10 MINUTES USING PROFANITY AND SLURS, AND USE MY CHILD AS A DEFENCE

RA RA RA RA RA RA.


She didn't "state an opinion" she yelled it cursing and swearing at people she assumed were contributing to the problem, without any knowledge of the people she was yelling at what so ever.

Theres a difference between stating an opinion and attacking other people with it. If see was WAY more calm about this whole thing, she probably would have been let off. I'd put money on it.

TLR having an opinion does not justify harassment.

Cursing and swearing? What like you hear every time you turn on the TV?

Come on, she'd sitting down with a toddler on her lap, no way she's intimidating anyone. It's "harassment" of the most benign order! Yeah, she made some jibes, that's the point where the police give her a talking to that this behaviour is unacceptable and get a warning. NOT IMEMDIATLEY ARRESTED AND HAVE HER TRIED IN COURT! Not Take away her children! Not Try to have her imprisoned like she is guilty of some grievous assault!

And all this doesn't excuse you calling jazoni a "horrible racist".

Darkmantle, Now I've seen you on the forums before, I know in other topics you are reasonable and don't fly off the handle like this. What the HELL is going on? Why has everyone gone crazy over this issue?

shall I do up and transcript for the video?

Woman "is this what this countries come to?"

"a load of black people and a load of fucking polish."
"a load of fucking n- (indistict noise) - yeah, your fucking--"

That's the first 10 seconds. a total of 3 fuckings. And it continues at about that rate. Yeah some shows I watch late at night have swearing maybe half as frequent, But I'm an adult, and those are on late. She is cursing and swearing in front of her child. I assume you wouldn't swear like that in front of your young kids. And I'm sure something was really bothering her that day and she was very upset about it, but that doesn't mean she has the right to lash out a people who have done nothing wrong as far as she knows. also adding the "get out of my country" in there a few times. That's a clear hate crime to me, also, it could be argued that she was using her child like a shield, so people wouldn't yell back at her, the other passengers, the ones she insults, seem to have more respect for her child then she does. That's why I can't support her.

Although I'm sure she should get off lighter than she's going to, I have no doubt the book will be thrown at her because of how well publicised this is, and she definitely doesn't deserve all of what's coming to her for sure.

Also I apologize, I get too worked up and confrontational over racism issues sometimes, sorry.

I also get worked up as soon as someone references 1984, damn I hated that book. And most people have no idea what the are talking about when they talk about it. most people do anyway.

 

[Lyri]

immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

The money is all they care about, respecting everyone else, and hell even speaking basic english comes second to them.

Woah!
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I didn't realise we're judging people because they wear headgear now. I mean, I understand the immigration and the loss of jobs but that comment is completely out of line.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

Still don't think she should be charged with anything.

But good lord, this woman is a moron. "We have video evidence." "BUT I'M NOT GUILTY"
Christ...perhaps she really is mentally impaired.

 

[ace_of_something]

Still don't think she should be charged with anything.

But good lord, this woman is a moron. "We have video evidence." "BUT I'M NOT GUILTY"
Christ...perhaps she really is mentally impaired.

Okay as a police officer can I say this exact sort of thing happens with a regularity that is tooth-gnashingly annoying.
We have cameras in our squad cars. You'd be amazed how often (about once a week) some person goes to court swearing up and down the cop was an asshole and they were the picture of courtesy. Then the video rolls, they SWEAR the video has been edited or something.

I don't really want to touch the racism/immigration issues, they're not as funny.

 

[TheMagicLemur]

Burkas are a symbol of Islamic empowerment, and yes people do get offended by it, many in fact.

As i said i washed my hands with all of you now, so please have a good day.

A) Yeah, fuck Muslims for wanting to have religious freedom and shit. Fuckin' selfish assholes.

Seriously, though, you keep saying xenophobic things (you're CLEARLY terrified of Muslims) and then denying that you are xenophobic. It's funny. And yeah, I guess some people would be offended by people openly showing that they are Muslim. Those offended would be the xenophobic dicks.

B) "As i said i washed my hands with all of you now, so please have a good day." Classic. Total classic internet maneuver. For those of you who don't know, this translates to "I have no valid argument here so I'm going to pretend that I'm just too damned smart to make myself clear to you and as such must simply slink off quietly."

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I've pushed it before, because I think it's brilliant, but I'd heartily suggest that any brits who have the time, go watch 'Black Mirror' on the Channel 4 site, as it's fairly relevant to this tale in some ways, as it's dealing with the issue of public opinion, and social media and how it can shape things. It just couldn't have been written even five years ago, too.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/black-mirror/4od

It's pretty damned dark, but damn it's good, and makes you think about how the howling mob has changed from torches and pitchforks to tweets and posts.

Also, there's the Clarkson thing recently, his words taken completely out of context just so people could wail how offensive he was being. When taken in full, it was obviously said as a joke about how the BBC had to show balance, and not actually about shooting anyone.

There's always going to be a majority of people who consider an opinion their right, and who cares if they don't have any actual information or facts to form that opinion from. It's their right to have a big strop about it.

Yes, I fully am aware that I fall into that very group.

 

[Treblaine]

I'd suggest that putting the whole race issue aside for a moment, she was being massively abusive and offensive in public, and surely 'breach of the peace' is enough to nail her.

...

I can't imagine if I, for about 10 minutes straight, sat on a packed train and yelled that everyone on here is a **** and should fuck off and I hate you all, I wouldn't be at least thrown off by the guard, and ideally be arrested at the next station.

Except the thing is I've seen this happen so many times in Britain without any police intervention. People breaching the peace with swearing and accusations and incendiary remarks but they just never happened to be of a racial or nationalistic basis. It's over shit like class or sex or macho challenging or lascivious advances.

You CAN for ten-minutes straight rant and rave at commuters making all sorts of lewd and threatening remarks but just don't go into the area of racism.

This is entirely an inappropriate reaction and disproportionate reaction to racism.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I wish everyone would stop calling it a tram. She was on "a train", on "the underground" or on "the tube". Tram is entirely different and we don't have them in London.

 

[Justanewguy]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

Hate Speech isn't covered by Free Speech.

Like hell it's not. Everyone has a right to say what they believe, regardless of how screwed up the rest of the world may think it is. The KKK has marched on Washington without being harassed, and if they're given the right to to say that stuff, then everyone has a right to speak their mind. They have that right, they should have the good taste not to exercise it, but they SHOULD have it.

 

[Idocreating]

The Daily Mail is so right wing that it fell off the plane.

I want to quote this so I remember it, as it's the most apt description of the Daily Mail that i've ever seen.