RANT: Weapons on your back

[Casimir_Effect]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but there are special scabbards for mounting on your back. Typically they involve being split to about half-way up on one side so you can easily pull the sword out. I always thought The Witcher has quite nice animations for (un-)sheathing the swords.

And yes it looks a bit silly to have the swods hovering a few cm away from the back but this is to stop uglyass clipping from happening. If this non-problem bothers you that much then here's an explanation:

"A FUCKING WIZARD DID IT THEN RAN AWAY"

 

[Thrane]

To be fair to The Witcher, they had to have Geralt wear his silver and steel swords on his back because it's explicitly stated in the novels that he does:

"The stranger's hair was almost white, but he was not old. Beneath his coat he wore a leather jerkin laced at the neck and shoulders. When he removed his coat, all saw the sword strapped across his back. This was nothing remarkable - in Vizima almost everyone went armed; but no one carried their sword behind them like a bow or quiver."

I'd also like to point out that they did in fact have scabbards intended but because of some clipping issues ended up not putting it in. There's a mod that activates 'em.
And the second one'll have proper scabbards by default, huzzah.

But yea, the floating thing annoys me too ^^

 

[Christian Lerche]

Now, talking as a LARPer, I've tried to have weapons on my back. And that shit does not work, you cannot draw a sword that is longer than your own arms length. It's impratical, it's stupid, and you look like an ass drawing it. The only reason why, is because it looks cool.

Clearly not a very good one. If you have the right equipment for weapons on your back, it works out very easily. This was, in fact, the way that two-handed swords were carried in the real world. It was less common for daggers and one-handed blades, but it did happen as well.

I hunt with a bow, and have a special harness to put it on my back, as well as a behind-the-back quiver. It makes it very easy to carry, keeps my hands free, and while the quiver actually isn't as good for getting arrows out quickly, it doesn't get caught on undergrowth as easy as a hip one would.

As for the reason they float, that's because straps and cords are really hard to do correctly. It's also why your guitar kind of floats next to you mid-air in the Guitar Hero games.

Cleary, good sir, LARPing is all about the weapons and swords and stuff. To carry is alright, usually you get good time to draw out your batch before a real encounter, but to quickly get out your oversized weapon (the witcher) out in time to respond to an ambush, not so much-. Bows and arrows are for... People who shoot. I don't do that. I can't take account for bow, arrows and crossbows. I have seen, and can imagine that a bow can easily be carried on your back with the shape and string.

As said previously, I don't hold a grudge to having weapons on your back, as long it's believable.
And for the real world bit, I would like to see an article or proof of this claim.

 

[Christian Lerche]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but there are special scabbards for mounting on your back. Typically they involve being split to about half-way up on one side so you can easily pull the sword out. I always thought The Witcher has quite nice animations for (un-)sheathing the swords.

And yes it looks a bit silly to have the swods hovering a few cm away from the back but this is to stop uglyass clipping from happening. If this non-problem bothers you that much then here's an explanation:

"A FUCKING WIZARD DID IT THEN RAN AWAY"

Like I mentioned before, it's not an excuse, it should make sense within the given world, and it simply doesn't. I mean, I do recognize the "Sparta" factor (e.i sacrificing realism for awesomeness) but this is not a sacrifice, it's just stupid.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I'm surprised he ranted about this and not something like the one-man-arsenal. You know, like "Fallout" and "Bioshock" and "Resistance: Fall Of Man" where you can carry a crazy amount of weapons in some strange system where assault rifles and rocket launchers fit snugly in your pockets. There's also the "Dead Space" thing where he just grabs the weapon he needs from nowhere. Seriously, he just drops his hands and, *pop* there's your weapon

Anyway. There's no good way to store weapons. If it's on a belt, unless it's like a small knife or something, it would restrict mobility with some big ol' sword or gun jostling around your legs. And if it's on the back, even if they give a good explanation, doesn't work because you couldn't draw that weapon. Look at "Gears Of War." Let's assume they use magnets for keeping their weapons in place. No matter what they're doing, sliding into cover, piloting a reaver, sprinting, diving; the weapons never get lost. If the magnet is that powerful, you wouldn't be able to pull that weapon off your back without some serious effort. But then again, the crew of "Gears Of War" have arms the size of California redwood trees so I guess that's no problem for them.

 

[meryatathagres]

I can understand fireballs, but when they for example don't explode on impact and have a grenade like feel to it, you'll probably see a few raised eyebrows.

Why? Because you have been taught to think of fireball as the DnD version? These kinds of things kinda irk me in western crpgs. That everything has to fit the mainstream fantasy view of DnD and Tolkien. Luckily East Europe has gotten into making at least something different than Baldurs Gate xyz. There's far too little innovation in crpgs. Sadly many people really would like to just play Baldurs Gate 17, so for example Bioware gets skinned alive, for doing at least some bits differently than they have before, in DA2.
As for floaty weapons. They look better, and are easier to do. I rather they don't spend their already limited development time into such minor aesthetics. (Why don't you complain about oversized weapons, or the fact that anyone running around in Plate would die from exhaustion?)

ps. If you really want an answer, it's levitate spell. You know the sameone every female characters boobs have. If the weapons appear from nowhere, it's a portable hole or bag of holding.

 

[Christian Lerche]

I'm surprised he ranted about this and not something like the one-man-arsenal. You know, like "Fallout" and "Bioshock" and "Resistance: Fall Of Man" where you can carry a crazy amount of weapons in some strange system where assault rifles and rocket launchers fit snugly in your pockets. There's also the "Dead Space" thing where he just grabs the weapon he needs from nowhere. Seriously, he just drops his hands and, *pop* there's your weapon

Anyway. There's no good way to store weapons. If it's on a belt, unless it's like a small knife or something, it would restrict mobility with some big ol' sword or gun jostling around your legs. And if it's on the back, even if they give a good explanation, doesn't work because you couldn't draw that weapon. Look at "Gears Of War." Let's assume they use magnets for keeping their weapons in place. No matter what they're doing, sliding into cover, piloting a reaver, sprinting, diving; the weapons never get lost. If the magnet is that powerful, you wouldn't be able to pull that weapon off your back without some serious effort. But then again, the crew of "Gears Of War" have arms the size of California redwood trees so I guess that's no problem for them.

To quote my previous statement:
"I do recognize the "Sparta" factor (e.i sacrificing realism for awesomeness) but this is not a sacrifice, it's just stupid."

I believe Yahtzee made a article complaining about the helmet in Dead Space 2, this is the same thing for me but just for floaty macfloaty. And I will complain about the one-man army thing if it was a issue for me, and it's not. Yet.

 

[KalosCast]

Cleary, good sir, LARPing is all about the weapons and swords and stuff. To carry is alright, usually you get good time to draw out your batch before a real encounter, but to quickly get out your oversized weapon (the witcher) out in time to respond to an ambush, not so much-. Bows and arrows are for... People who shoot. I don't do that. I can't take account for bow, arrows and crossbows. I have seen, and can imagine that a bow can easily be carried on your back with the shape and string.

As said previously, I don't hold a grudge to having weapons on your back, as long it's believable.
And for the real world bit, I would like to see an article or proof of this claim.

Even though it takes (marginally) longer to draw from the back, people in situations like the average RPG adventurer would still be likely to use it because it's less likely to get caught on something when your weapon is on your back as opposed to on your belt. An improperly-secured one on your hip (or say, one compromised in a fight) carries the risk of tripping the combatant.

In regard to your ambush scenario, soldiers trained in their equipment are, generally speaking, going to have a lot less trouble drawing their weapons than say... LARPers.

If you want a source, Google exists. I don't pre-prepare a bibliography for several possible conversations before I talk to someone on the internet.

If you really want to rail against something being unrealistic in a video game, we should talk about how my characters can sprint in full-plate for more than a few dozen yards without collapsing.

 

[Christian Lerche]

I can understand fireballs, but when they for example don't explode on impact and have a grenade like feel to it, you'll probably see a few raised eyebrows.

(Why don't you complain about oversized weapons, or the fact that anyone running around in Plate would die from exhaustion?)

Because they live in a world where drinking a potion and your skin turns to stone is completely normal. This is not about realism, if I was for realism I wouldn't play RPGs at all.
It makes sense that you can run a marathon in plate, it doesn't when their weapons float, simple as that. It's not norm within fantasy, like the fireball for instance, and I hope it doesn't turn into one.

Again, I'll quote myself:" I mean, I do recognize the "Sparta" factor (e.i sacrificing realism for awesomeness) but this is not a sacrifice(floaty weapons), it's just stupid."

 

[demoman_chaos]

Agreed. A longsword cannot be drawn from your back, but they do it in games and films.
Also has anyone ever usheathed a weapon in reality and heard the "schhhhiiiiing" noise? My katana, gladius, qama, my bowie, kukri, or any other of my weapons have never made that sound.

Spoiler: The thread title reminded me of this video

Spoiler: and then I reminded myself of this one by the same bloke

 

[ryai458]

But where would you keep your car length sword?

 

[Christian Lerche]

Cleary, good sir, LARPing is all about the weapons and swords and stuff. To carry is alright, usually you get good time to draw out your batch before a real encounter, but to quickly get out your oversized weapon (the witcher) out in time to respond to an ambush, not so much-. Bows and arrows are for... People who shoot. I don't do that. I can't take account for bow, arrows and crossbows. I have seen, and can imagine that a bow can easily be carried on your back with the shape and string.

As said previously, I don't hold a grudge to having weapons on your back, as long it's believable.
And for the real world bit, I would like to see an article or proof of this claim.

Even though it takes (marginally) longer to draw from the back, people in situations like the average RPG adventurer would still be likely to use it because it's less likely to get caught on something when your weapon is on your back as opposed to on your belt. An improperly-secured one on your hip (or say, one compromised in a fight) carries the risk of tripping the combatant.

In regard to your ambush scenario, soldiers trained in their equipment are, generally speaking, going to have a lot less trouble drawing their weapons than say... LARPers.

If you want a source, Google exists. I don't pre-prepare a bibliography for several possible conversations before I talk to someone on the internet.

If you really want to rail against something being unrealistic in a video game, we should talk about how my characters can sprint in full-plate for more than a few dozen yards without collapsing.

You're not talking, you're making an argument, and I expect anyone to back up their claims as they would in IRL. And please, if you want to slap a LARPer with an insult at least make it good,like : "You guys never get laid" or something like that. I believe I can draw a real sword just as well any other, and I've yet to see the day I'm proven wrong. Read the other posts I've about realism if you'd be so inclined.

 

[Christian Lerche]

But where would you keep your car length sword?

In a truck, larger than your car... Or something along those lines.

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

I was actually thinking about this the other day when wondering how a God of War film would actually work. Any change in Kratos' seemingly simple design would cause inevitable outrage, so I was stuck for how to explain the swords without giving him a leather strap or something. I don't know why in games it's such an accepted practise, because if a movie character suddenly stuck a gun on his back everyone in the audience would notice and it would destroy immersion.

 

[KalosCast]

You're not talking, you're making an argument, and I expect anyone to back up their claims as they would in IRL. And please, if you want to slap a LARPer with an insult at least make it good,like : "You guys never get laid" or something like that. I believe I can draw a real sword just as well any other, and I've yet to see the day I'm proven wrong. Read the other posts I've about realism if you'd be so inclined.

Do you really expect people IRL to go grab an encyclopedia every time they disagree with you? Grow up.

I have read this entire thread, and haven't found anything that refutes the points I'm making. I even provided you with the reason they appear to float in games in an earlier post.

 

[Sarge034]

I know right. I hate it when games are NOT JUST LIKE THE REAL WORLD. Chill out, it's a game.

 

[Christian Lerche]

You're not talking, you're making an argument, and I expect anyone to back up their claims as they would in IRL. And please, if you want to slap a LARPer with an insult at least make it good,like : "You guys never get laid" or something like that. I believe I can draw a real sword just as well any other, and I've yet to see the day I'm proven wrong. Read the other posts I've about realism if you'd be so inclined.

Do you really expect people IRL to go grab an encyclopedia every time they disagree with you? Grow up.

I have read this entire thread, and haven't found anything that refutes the points I'm making. I even provided you with the reason they appear to float in games in an earlier post.

"Because they live in a world where drinking a potion and your skin turns to stone is completely normal. This is not about realism, if I was for realism I wouldn't play RPGs at all.
It makes sense that you can run a marathon in plate, it doesn't when their weapons float, simple as that. It's not norm within fantasy, like the fireball for instance, and I hope it doesn't turn into one." and the "Sparta"-factor.

I expect people to point a finger towards something someone can relate to. And I have all respect for you disagreing, but it seem more or less you're making a point, and therefore should prove that your knowledge is based on true fact, rather than something taken for granted from a friend or such.
It's not like I'm saying it's because of the unrealism it presents, but the unrealism WITHIN that realism break the illusion (inception joke not intended)
I know they put it there also for the sake of clipping, but it's a poor design choice and should be altered for future games. Plus I love to ***** and let people hear it, this is a rant mind.

 

[Christian Lerche]

I know right. I hate it when games are NOT JUST LIKE THE REAL WORLD. Chill out, it's a game.

I ***** where I please, and I please where I *****.

 

[Something Amyss]

Now, talking as a LARPer

"Talking as a LARPER" is about as good a qualification for expertise on armaments as "Watching Star Wars" is a qualification for building a FTL drive.

Even barring back holsters as the second poster demonstrated, the only thing inaccurate about large swords on your back is the way they're drawn.

 

[Camarilla]

And for the real world bit, I would like to see an article or proof of this claim.

There are vague references to some Irish and Scottish natives wearing great swords on their back, but for the most part there's no real proof that swords were worn on the back in Europe (though it's been posited that they may have been when carrying them on marches).

There is some evidence though, of swords being worn on the back in Asia. Some contemporary images show Mongol horsemen wearing swords across their back, as well as Samurai. To hand though, the only thing I can show is this:

Not a combat situation, but it shows that its not a completely fictional idea.