Reading through the bible

[Drathnoxis]

When I was a teenager some Jehova's Witness came to my door and gave me a little bible. I wasn't raised religious, but neither was I opposed to religion so I thought "what the heck, I'll give it a read". I made it about 50 pages into Genesis before I stopped picking it up again. I've always had the intention to return to it one day and see what all the fuss was about, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm probably only going to read a handful of pages a day so it doesn't become unbearable. The version is New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. I don't mean any offence to anybody who believes in the bible.

Already I've learned that God prefers meat over veggies "...Cain proceeded to bring some fruits of the ground as an offering to Jehovah. But as for Abel, he too brought some firstlings of his flock, even their fatty pieces. Now while Jehovah was looking with favour upon Abel and his offering, he did not look with any favour upon Cain and upon his offering."

I don't really get why so much space is devoted to describing who gave birth to who and how long they lived. It's either too little or too much detail considering it only lists one son and then "he had many other sons and daughters" that don't rate a mention. I'm going to lean on the side of too much detail, especially since they almost all die in the flood immediately following. People also waited a lot longer to have kids back then, over 100 years on average. Noah didn't have kids until he was over 500!

Another good quote "The end of all flesh has come before me."

So the great flood happened, and Noah saved 2 of every animal and more of the 'clean ones'. Then after the flood was over he started burning offerings to god of the clean animals he just spent the last year or so protecting, and that made god happy. I don't really get it.

Ok, but then Noah becomes a farmer and grows a vinyard and gets drunk, and takes off his clothes. And one of his grandsons sees him naked and tells his brothers(uncles?) and they cover him up. Then when Noah sobers up he becomes inexplicably angry at the son who's son saw him naked and commands him to become a slave to his brothers! What the heck?!

 

[Xprimentyl]

Lol, have fun with that. My experience is that most Christian-based religions tend to interpret the Bible into smaller, more easily consumable nuggets of advice and wisdom they can feed to those willing to open their spiritual gullets to.

My take? Any text that is best understood by someone else's translation of it is a text that is largely misunderstood. Nothing against the Bible or people of faith, but the mere fact that the "same" book has numerous interpretations that lead people to every extreme variety of belief is telling. The Bible is not a tome one can just pick up and read for themselves and gain much from other than questions they'll ultimately place before spiritual scholars who will give you any answer under the sun that fits their predetermined ideals. Oh, and those answers will vary.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Lol, have fun with that. My experience is that most Christian-based religions tend to interpret the Bible into smaller, more easily consumable nuggets of advice and wisdom they can feed to those willing to open their spiritual gullets to.

My take? Any text that is best understood by someone else's translation of it is a text that is largely misunderstood. Nothing against the Bible or people of faith, but the mere fact that the "same" book has numerous interpretations that lead people to every extreme variety of belief is telling. The Bible is not a tome one can just pick up and read for themselves and gain much from other than questions they'll ultimately place before spiritual scholars who will give you any answer under the sun that fits their predetermined ideals. Oh, and those answers will vary.

I am having fun so far actually. Just the way things are worded are very amusing to me. Like when God is creating the world and it ends every creation with "and God saw that it was good". It's like, he's just trying things at random and going "oh, hey, this is pretty good!"

Or just some of the events that are recorded. Like I mentioned the part where Noah gets drunk and gets incredibly angry at his grandson seeing him naked. Barring some (incredibly likely) losses in context over several thousand years of translation and replication, why was this seen as important enough to include in THE BOOK. It's just funny to consider it that way, and it actually takes away a lot of Noah's mysticism and just makes him seem like a regular fallible human.

 

[Agema]

I don't really get why so much space is devoted to describing who gave birth to who and how long they lived. It's either too little or too much detail considering it only lists one son and then "he had many other sons and daughters" that don't rate a mention.

Lineage is a big deal.

If you read Homer and Greek stories, then many characters in that are described with their forebears. Someone's special because some ancestor was special. Superior breeding, etc. Like in a more modern way, Trump talks about how amazing his genes and relatives are. It's a way of saying family's greatness also reflects on its members.

So Jesus isn't just some guy there and then, his dad Joseph was descended from King David. Yeah, that King David. And even though Joseph is just a craftsman and not even Jesus's biological father (in theological terms), that kind of means Jesus is descended from King David. If he were just a peasant from a long line of peasants, it'd be pretty disappointing in comparison. There's even some prophecy that the messiah must eb descended from King David, which means you literally must have a special ancestor to be special. (I'd suggest some king made that shit up in an attempt to give divine right to his and his offsprings' rulership: "depose us and you may never have a messiah".)

And even today, we have nobility who can count back through their ancestors, many of whom did something impressive in their day (mostly killing people). Even in the USA where the aristocracy isn't titled, there are a load of people who can lord their Americanness over you because they're desciended from Zachiariah Weathertop who landed on the shore of Roanoke in 1593 or whatever crap that makes them better than you and other other Johnny-come-latelies.

 

[Worgen]

Already I've learned that God prefers meat over veggies "...Cain proceeded to bring some fruits of the ground as an offering to Jehovah. But as for Abel, he too brought some firstlings of his flock, even their fatty pieces. Now while Jehovah was looking with favour upon Abel and his offering, he did not look with any favour upon Cain and upon his offering."

Its not so much meat over veggies as it is the value of the sacrifice to the... sacrificee.. sacrificer... whatever. Someone could give a million dollars but if they have a billion then it means very little, but if they only have $100 and they give $50 then that would be a more worthy sacrifice.

Also according to Catholicism, you're not actually supposed to read the bible, you don't have the training to really understand it, that is what priests are for, to help the layman interpret the stories and meaning. After all, there is a lot of contradictory stuff in there since its like a Frankenstein's monster of various books and varying levels of translation combined into one. And the old testament probably should have just been left out of the whole thing.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Lineage is a big deal.

If you read Homer and Greek stories, then many characters in that are described with their forebears. Someone's special because some ancestor was special. Superior breeding, etc. Like in a more modern way, Trump talks about how amazing his genes and relatives are. It's a way of saying family's greatness also reflects on its members.

And even today, we have nobility who can count back through their ancestors, many of whom did something impressive in their day (mostly killing people). Even in the USA where the aristocracy isn't titled, there are a load of people who can lord their Americanness over you because they're desciended from Zachiariah Weathertop who landed on the shore of Roanoke in 1593 or whatever crap that makes them better than you and other other Johnny-come-latelies.

Ok I get that, but the only purpose it serves is to show that Noah was descended from Adam... and everybody is a direct descendant of Adam by definition. Nobody listed does anything other than have a buttload of children all of who's descendants die in the flood except for Noah.

Also,

So Jesus isn't just some guy there and then, his dad Joseph was descended from King David. Yeah, that King David. And even though Joseph is just a craftsman and not even Jesus's biological father (in theological terms), that kind of means Jesus is descended from King David. If he were just a peasant from a long line of peasants, it'd be pretty disappointing in comparison. There's even some prophecy that the messiah must eb descended from King David, which means you literally must have a special ancestor to be special. (I'd suggest some king made that shit up in an attempt to give divine right to his and his offsprings' rulership: "depose us and you may never have a messiah".)

Spoilers! Jeez!

Its not so much meat over veggies as it is the value of the sacrifice to the... sacrificee.. sacrificer... whatever. Someone could give a million dollars but if they have a billion then it means very little, but if they only have $100 and they give $50 then that would be a more worthy sacrifice.

But Cain was a farmer so he gave crops, and Abel was a shepherd so he gave sheep. It's just plain biased against farmers to say that Cain's sacrifice wasn't worthwhile just because crops are worth less than sheep.

Also according to Catholicism, you're not actually supposed to read the bible, you don't have the training to really understand it, that is what priests are for, to help the layman interpret the stories and meaning. After all, there is a lot of contradictory stuff in there since its like a Frankenstein's monster of various books and varying levels of translation combined into one. And the old testament probably should have just been left out of the whole thing.

Ah, but you see, I was given this bible by a Jehova's Witness, not a Catholic.

 

[Worgen]

But Cain was a farmer so he gave crops, and Abel was a shepherd so he gave sheep. It's just plain biased against farmers to say that Cain's sacrifice wasn't worthwhile just because crops are worth less than sheep.

Well, old testament god was kind of a bloodthirst mofo.

 

[Xprimentyl]

And the old testament probably should have just been left out of the whole thing.

You mean the entirety of the holy text of Judaism? Yeah, let's leave that part out.

One book, two religions with antithetical beliefs; what could go wrong there?

 

[Drathnoxis]

Well, old testament god was kind of a bloodthirst mofo.

He really is. I just read the part about Babel. They were all "Hey everybody! Lets make bricks and build a really nice city with a big tower! It'll be great!" Then god came down and took a look at the city and said "Hmm, this city is really nice, there isn't anything these people won't be able to do. [direct quote] 'Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another's language. Accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there all over the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city.'[/direct quote] What the heck?! It's like your dad coming over to kick down your sand castle because it was really nice.

 

[Worgen]

He really is. I just read the part about Babel. They were all "Hey everybody! Lets make bricks and build a really nice city with a big tower! It'll be great!" Then god came down and took a look at the city and said "Hmm, this city is really nice, there isn't anything these people won't be able to do. [direct quote] 'Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another's language. Accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there all over the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city.'[/direct quote] What the heck?! It's like your dad coming over to kick down your sand castle because it was really nice.

I think there is a part of the old testament where he, god, also gets into a wrestling match with some guy. I forget if he wins.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And even today, we have nobility who can count back through their ancestors, many of whom did something impressive in their day (mostly killing people). Even in the USA where the aristocracy isn't titled, there are a load of people who can lord their Americanness over you because they're desciended from Zachiariah Weathertop who landed on the shore of Roanoke in 1593 or whatever crap that makes them better than you and other other Johnny-come-latelies.

Christopher Lee fans make a fuss about him being descended from Charlemagne. So am I, as it happens, and so would be the majority of people with European ancestry if they traced it back that far.

 

[Drathnoxis]

So Abram was commanded by God to move somewhere and he would become a great nation. On the way they went to Egypt and Abram was worried that when they saw how beautiful his wife, Sar'ai, was they would ask him if she was his wife and then they would kill him. So instead they pretended she was his sister and the Pharaoh gave him a lot of gifts and was going to marry Sar'ai. Then God sent a plague to the Pharaoh because of this for some reason. Then the Pharaoh said to Abram "why did you tell me she was your sister? Go away!" Then they did not, in fact, kill Abram. Was this some kind of scam or something? It seems like Abram got to keep all the loot he got from the Pharaoh. Weird.

Later, in Sodom, God is going there with two angels to destroy the place for being bad. Abraham has a long pointless scene where he talks God into not destroying the place if he finds 50 45 40 35 30 25 20 15 10 righteous people in it, which I don't get the sense that God has any intention of following because he doesn't even look around before calling down the sulphur and fire. Was it God that learned mercy from men or is it supposed to be man that learns mercy from God? Anyway the townsfolk get extremely horny for the angels and demand Lot allow them to have intercourse with them. Lot tries to bargain them into settling for his two virgin daughters, but no dice. Then God has Lot removed to a nearby town and torches Sodom and Gomorah. Then Lot's Wife looks behind her and turns into a pillar of salt. I feel like a lot of these stories end with non sequiturs. I don't think God has really told anybody what he expects of anybody at this point either, other than everyone needs to be circumcised.

 

[Drathnoxis]

There's a lot of incest in this book so far. After his wife turned to salt Lot went and lived in the mountains and his two daughters got him drunk and impregnated themselves.

Then Abraham runs his wife-sister racket again, and again the king falls in love with his 'sister' (who is 99, and past menopause), and again God brings down the threats, and the king is just "WFT man?" But it's okay because Abraham's wife actually is his half sister! Again Abraham makes out like a bandit with a bunch of livestock and treasure from the king.

I don't really have much to comment about on The Binding of Isaac. The moral seems to be just, do whatever God tells you and he'll multiply your seed, which is an enticement that has rather fallen by the wayside in modern thought. I can only imagine how the internet would crucify me if I said that I wanted my children to become a nation.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ok, but then Noah becomes a farmer and grows a vinyard and gets drunk, and takes off his clothes. And one of his grandsons sees him naked and tells his brothers(uncles?) and they cover him up. Then when Noah sobers up he becomes inexplicably angry at the son who's son saw him naked and commands him to become a slave to his brothers! What the heck?!

Sounds like the pilot that Jerry made in Seinfeld where a guy hits his car and he doesn't have insurance and the judge decrees the guy pay it off by being his butler.

There's a lot of incest in this book so far. After his wife turned to salt Lot went and lived in the mountains and his two daughters got him drunk and impregnated themselves.

Isn't like everything post Noah's Ark incest (and technically all the way to present day as well)? Because there was just the one family of humans and then 2 of every animal.

 

[Worgen]

There's a lot of incest in this book so far. After his wife turned to salt Lot went and lived in the mountains and his two daughters got him drunk and impregnated themselves.

Then Abraham runs his wife-sister racket again, and again the king falls in love with his 'sister' (who is 99, and past menopause), and again God brings down the threats, and the king is just "WFT man?" But it's okay because Abraham's wife actually is his half sister! Again Abraham makes out like a bandit with a bunch of livestock and treasure from the king.

I don't really have much to comment about on The Binding of Isaac. The moral seems to be just, do whatever God tells you and he'll multiply your seed, which is an enticement that has rather fallen by the wayside in modern thought. I can only imagine how the internet would crucify me if I said that I wanted my children to become a nation.

Gotta keep that bloodline PUUUUUUURE.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Isn't like everything post Noah's Ark incest (and technically all the way to present day as well)? Because there was just the one family of humans and then 2 of every animal.

Incest is really about the degrees of separation, though. More people are going to object between sexual relations between parents and children or between siblings than between first cousins, and more people are going to object with first cousins than second cousins, and so on. With Noah, he brought his children and their spouses so the mandatory incest was at cousin level, which was acceptable even as recently as the 19th century if not later.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Incest is really about the degrees of separation, though. More people are going to object between sexual relations between parents and children or between siblings than between first cousins, and more people are going to object with first cousins than second cousins, and so on. With Noah, he brought his children and their spouses so the mandatory incest was at cousin level, which was acceptable even as recently as the 19th century if not later.

The animals too though.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Gotta keep that bloodline PUUUUUUURE.

Well except for that other son Abram had outside of wedlock with his wife's maidservant.

The animals too though.

Nobody cares about animals inbreeding.

 

[Drathnoxis]

The book started off strong with worlds being created and floods and cities being destroyed, but it's really slowed down now. The most interesting part of the last handful of pages was Abraham buying a plot of land to bury his wife on for 400 shekels. For a guy that has an entire branch of religions named after him it doesn't seem like Abraham really did anything.

 

[Drathnoxis]

My god, we're repeating the sister/wife plot for the third time! This time with Isaac and his wife. Luckily the king caught on in time and saved himself and his people from Jehovah's irrational wrath. It doesn't seem like Isaac got much loot out of the scam either.