'Real' Space marines

[jamesworkshop]

Plus if you die you might get to be a dreadnaught I would love a decent 40k shooter where that happens maybe doing a 40k version of COD4 changing from different combat roles in a war from guardsman, to traitor, to marine, to dreadnaught t'would be awesome

 

[Syphonz]

I'd like to see a 40k game take on like a Star War battlefront type of game.

 

[Madrak the Red]

But the Astartes are broken in 40K. I think the main reason why that is is because everyone has a MArine Army. I switched to guard a long time ago. And 3+ armour save for all are so annoying. They should all be 20 points, not 15. Necrons are even more obscene, the army for failed marine palyers (which is saying something). So yeah. Guard are so much easier to characterise with. Them and orks. Guard v Orks or Guard v Guard are some of the best matches. Especially in cities of death. With my close-combat orintated urban catachans. Oh yeah...

But going back to the idea of a 40K shooter, I think there would definately be amarket for a 3rd Peson Tactical where you are a Tanith Ghost. And you could choose your specialisation, Scout, Sniper, Flamer, Comms, Assualt, Support etc. You could have a charcter for each, like Mkvenner, Larkin or Nessa, Brostin, Beltayn, Milo, Rawne, Caffran, Criid, Bragg or even the big man.

I think that would work.

Oh, and bolters fire ROCKETS. Bolts are rocket powered, and can change their flight path. Best guns ever.

 

[Robyrt]

The problem with a Space Marine is that it's just so darn easy to make one. No personality, no limits on the physique, no realistic clothing, no limit on the outrageous weapons he can be carrying... it's perfect!

As to who is a "real" space marine: The definition would have to be broad enough to include Marcus Fenix and Master Chief, as well as traditional Heinlein-style guys. Basically, anyone in power armor, or muscles big enough to be effectively power armor, in a futuristic military setting. Heck, if you didn't play Half-Life 1, Gordon Freeman is a space marine: he has a special power armor, carries a dozen guns, and can't carry on conversations.

I would love to see a Zero-G action game. Basically, a multiplayer Dead Space would do the trick.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

A proper 40k linear fps would be brilliant.

The best two options I can think of are;

1. A kick arse 7 foot tall hate filled bio-engineered brainwashed prayer swilling ego-less killing machine in a powered exo-skeleton covered in armour (space marine), who as the last survivor of an expedition (through no fault of his own) goes on unrepentant and without conscience in a genocidal rampage, watched with appropriate fear and horror by his human would be allies, who can acheive little more than pity for his enemies.

2. A fearful and underequiped generic soldier (guardsman) who's superiors not only will kill him for not following his orders, but will kill him for asking questions, for not going beyond the call of duty, will kill him for requesting ammunition in the wrong colour ink etc. And have assigned commissars to each platoon to spy on the soldiers and personally enforce these punishments, shooting the soldiers in the head with very little warning. The main aim of the game is to increase in rank, primarily because with each promotion the commissars and superiors have to talk to you for longer before killing you, thus giving you a chance to make excuses, run, or fight back. Killing a commissar when there's no officer around will actually go down well with the rest of the troops, but his replacement is bound to be suspicious.
Going up in the ranks involves surviving battles with various alien races, none of which you are properly briefed on, and some of which superiors will disbelieve the existence of even after you rescue them from them. Certainly claiming that these aliens are the equal or better in combat than humans is an offence punishable by death.

I've gone on a bit about option 2, but I really want to play this game, and I bet I'm not alone.

Option one sounds familiar...

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

But the Astartes are broken in 40K. I think the main reason why that is is because everyone has a MArine Army. I switched to guard a long time ago. And 3+ armour save for all are so annoying. They should all be 20 points, not 15. Necrons are even more obscene, the army for failed marine palyers (which is saying something). So yeah. Guard are so much easier to characterise with. Them and orks. Guard v Orks or Guard v Guard are some of the best matches. Especially in cities of death. With my close-combat orintated urban catachans. Oh yeah...

But going back to the idea of a 40K shooter, I think there would definately be amarket for a 3rd Peson Tactical where you are a Tanith Ghost. And you could choose your specialisation, Scout, Sniper, Flamer, Comms, Assualt, Support etc. You could have a charcter for each, like Mkvenner, Larkin or Nessa, Brostin, Beltayn, Milo, Rawne, Caffran, Criid, Bragg or even the big man.

I think that would work.

Oh, and bolters fire ROCKETS. Bolts are rocket powered, and can change their flight path. Best guns ever.

The problem with the oh-so-sweet 3+ save is that when you are being hit by a AP 3 or lowere weapon it's just plain painful. I find it a lot easier to play with an army where I can throw away units like with the Imperial Guard and Orks. Whenever I use my space marine army, I almost always lose horrifically. Whenever I use any other army I mostly win.

The people I really hate are those who play tyranids because they think they're being original, when they're probably the second most popular army. They also believe that because they've latched onto the 'charge forward and pray your playing an idiot' tactic they consider themselves awesome tacticians. They also tend to talk about how great tyranids are in the fluff, ignoring how they're outnumbered by orks, necrons and humans. I'm not saying that all Tyranid players are like this, but I've met too many for my liking.

 

[Iron Mal]

Space Marines are the most overused character archetype in videogames, if he's not a normal marine or badass soldier the protagonist will almost always be a tough talking space marine.

Again, I return to my original point that all three characters you described are almost exactly the same as each other (they're just US Marines in a cosmic place, sometimes with one liners and light facial hair to make them look grizzled and hardened), none of them described what I was getting at (that being something like a Warhammer 40k Marine or the guy from DOOM/Quake).

The 'sterotypical' Space Marine useually has little motivation throughout their respective games other than 'aliens invaded my homeworld, killed my parents and molested my little brother...it's time to make the bastards pay' (often said with a Snake Pliskin-like voice).

WH40k Space Marines are motivated by the fact that they are fanatics to the Emperor and view everyone else as unholy target practice (that's actually quite unique) and the DOOM/Quake marine is silent throughout his game so that leaves it up to the player to come up with a backstory if they feel the need to (in other words, if you don't like the characterisation, it's because you have a limited imagination).

 

[ward.]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=mbjbbzOrCIg

The warhammer 40k game in development, although it looks like it will be a long time before we see.
I've also never seen a version with the Xbox logo at the start, pretty sure someones edited that in.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Space Marines are the most overused character archetype in videogames, if he's not a normal marine or badass soldier the protagonist will almost always be a tough talking space marine.

Again, I return to my original point that all three characters you described are almost exactly the same as each other (they're just US Marines in a cosmic place, sometimes with one liners and light facial hair to make them look grizzled and hardened), none of them described what I was getting at (that being something like a Warhammer 40k Marine or the guy from DOOM/Quake).

The 'sterotypical' Space Marine useually has little motivation throughout their respective games other than 'aliens invaded my homeworld, killed my parents and molested my little brother...it's time to make the bastards pay' (often said with a Snake Pliskin-like voice).

WH40k Space Marines are motivated by the fact that they are fanatics to the Emperor and view everyone else as unholy target practice (that's actually quite unique) and the DOOM/Quake marine is silent throughout his game so that leaves it up to the player to come up with a backstory if they feel the need to (in other words, if you don't like the characterisation, it's because you have a limited imagination).

That's not a unique character type at all, look at the Enclave from Fallout 3. They are soldiers that wear power armour and serve the President fanatically, they see Wastelanders as unpure humans along with mutants and feel they must eradicate them, can you see the similarity?

 

[arcus_angelus]

Master Chief is middle aged not 20 and he is not a marine. He is actually part of the Navy.

I never actually mentioned the Master Chief (although I did mention the Marines in Halo, who do fit my description).

Quite a few people have made the observation that you technically can't have a space marine (due to their tendancy for aquatic operations) but I think the title is more for decorative value than meaning literal 'marines in space' (Space Marines sounds somewhat cooler than Space Soldier or Space Trooper).

or. . .STARSHIP TROOPERS! Yeah! I got to make a movie title reference!

Space Marine would still be an accurate title, since the infiltration of other worlds would assumedly hold land, sea, and possibly air. The addition of "space" to Space Marine only indicates that it's an off world infiltration.

 

[Axolotl]

That's not a unique character type at all, look at the Enclave from Fallout 3. They are soldiers that wear power armour and serve the President fanatically, they see Wastelanders as unpure humans along with mutants and feel they must eradicate them, can you see the similarity?

How relgious are they? Because one of the main points of the 40K Space Marines is that they're an army of warrior-monks who slaughter their foes whilst chanting prayers of purification. The other main thing that makes the different is that the're genetically and chemically enhanced to super-human levels. A further thing that marks them out from the Enclave is that they're "the good guys".

 

[Iron Mal]

That's not a unique character type at all, look at the Enclave from Fallout 3. They are soldiers that wear power armour and serve the President fanatically, they see Wastelanders as unpure humans along with mutants and feel they must eradicate them, can you see the similarity?

One example is nowhere near enough to undermine my point. If you can only think of one example then it's hardly an overdone concept.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Actually~ *puts on his giant nerd glasses*

Space Marines faith varies. In the old fluff it was stated many actually didn't believe in the divinity of the Emperor, rather viewing him as the most perfect human and one to emulate and serve. However this has been white washed away by current lore, which shows them as being as zealous for the Emperors divine feet as anyone else. It actually varies from chapter to chapter- in the younger chapters the Emperor is worshipped as a god, whereas in the older founding chapters he is lauded more akin to a saintly figure above all other saintly figures, and the Chaplains enforce a kind of spirituality focused around purity, hatred, and respect for ones Wargear etc etc.

The thing that really makes the Space Marines unique IS their faith though. How many people chant prayers about "hatred" in battle like it was a good thing, invoking hatred like some sort of divine shield, like we would gods grace.

Also, calling the Space Marines 'good guys' is a bit of a stretch. Warhammer 40k doesn't have any 'good guys' and some Space Marines have as little concern for regular human lives as an Eldar would, so long as the greater needs of the Imperium are served.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

That's not a unique character type at all, look at the Enclave from Fallout 3. They are soldiers that wear power armour and serve the President fanatically, they see Wastelanders as unpure humans along with mutants and feel they must eradicate them, can you see the similarity?

One example is nowhere near enough to undermine my point. If you can only think of one example then it's hardly an overdone concept.

Stormtroopers

 

[AceDiamond]

That's not a unique character type at all, look at the Enclave from Fallout 3. They are soldiers that wear power armour and serve the President fanatically, they see Wastelanders as unpure humans along with mutants and feel they must eradicate them, can you see the similarity?

One example is nowhere near enough to undermine my point. If you can only think of one example then it's hardly an overdone concept.

Stormtroopers

Nazis in Castle Wolfenstein

 

[Axolotl]

Actually~ *puts on his giant nerd glasses*

You want to get into a debate about 40K fluff? Because I have far more 40K fluff knowledge than is healthy

Space Marines faith varies. In the old fluff it was stated many actually didn't believe in the divinity of the Emperor, rather viewing him as the most perfect human and one to emulate and serve. However this has been white washed away by current lore, which shows them as being as zealous for the Emperors divine feet as anyone else. It actually varies from chapter to chapter- in the younger chapters the Emperor is worshipped as a god, whereas in the older founding chapters he is lauded more akin to a saintly figure above all other saintly figures, and the Chaplains enforce a kind of spirituality focused around purity, hatred, and respect for ones Wargear etc etc.

I never said that they worshiped the Emperor just that they were deeply religious (which is deeply ironc if you've read the Horus Heresy stuff). Indeed the Space Marines faiths are varied but they all worship (or at the very least honour) the Emperor and they all detest anything impure religously.

The thing that really makes the Space Marines unique IS their faith though. How many people chant prayers about "hatred" in battle like it was a good thing, invoking hatred like some sort of divine shield, like we would gods grace.

Indeed which is why they are different from enclave and all other space marines.

Also, calling the Space Marines 'good guys' is a bit of a stretch. Warhammer 40k doesn't have any 'good guys' and some Space Marines have as little concern for regular human lives as an Eldar would, so long as the greater needs of the Imperium are served.

True, thats why I put them in quotation marks. However for the setting (a setting where the comic relief race is a species of war mongering, genocidal, psychotic, pirates) they are in the good guy role, without them humanity would have been destroyed.

To sumerise 40k and its Space Marines are made of awesome (but the Inquisition is more better).

Stormtroopers

How are they at all like 40k Space Marine other than "they wear armour" which they don't even do in the same way.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

You want to get into a debate about 40K fluff? Because I have far more 40K fluff knowledge than is healthy

So do I I havn't read the Horus Heresy novels, to me the whole idea is silly. I remember when the stories were told via old fluff articles. There was nothing more epic then the tale of the Siege of Terra. This was back in the day before

Spoiler

Alpharius was actually twins and the Alpha Legion was secretly fighting to destroy Chaos, or some HH novel bullshit

.

It's very ironic though, especially since one of the Primarchs (Lorgar) fell because the Emperor chastized him for worshipping him.

 

[Axolotl]

So do I I havn't read the Horus Heresy novels, to me the whole idea is silly. I remember when the stories were told via old fluff articles. There was nothing more epic then the tale of the Siege of Terra. This was back in the day before

Spoiler

Alpharius was actually twins and the Alpha Legion was secretly fighting to destroy Chaos, or some HH novel bullshit

.

Hey I didn't say they were all good (though I find the first three very fitting with the setting).

It's very ironic though, especially since one of the Primarchs (Lorgar) fell because the Emperor chastized him for worshipping him.

Yeah, the Horus Heresy novels expand upon this by showing that one of the primary goals of the early Space Marines was to educate people on how there were no Gods and no Daemons. Now that's irony, it's also an example of why 40k is the best Sci-Fi setting ever and we need more games set in it.

 

[Fenring]

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who doesn't see a difference between the 40k marine and the Starcraft Terrian marine?

 

[Shellsh0cker]

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who doesn't see a difference between the 40k marine and the Starcraft Terrian marine?

They are pretty similar, at least equipment-wise. The primary difference lies in their motivations and characterization *points to giant discussion of this above*.

The problem with a Space Marine is that it's just so darn easy to make one. No personality, no limits on the physique, no realistic clothing, no limit on the outrageous weapons he can be carrying... it's perfect!

As to who is a "real" space marine: The definition would have to be broad enough to include Marcus Fenix and Master Chief, as well as traditional Heinlein-style guys. Basically, anyone in power armor, or muscles big enough to be effectively power armor, in a futuristic military setting. Heck, if you didn't play Half-Life 1, Gordon Freeman is a space marine: he has a special power armor, carries a dozen guns, and can't carry on conversations.

I would love to see a Zero-G action game. Basically, a multiplayer Dead Space would do the trick.

See, that's really what we're discussing here. I don't think that your solution is really valid; what we're getting at is that Master Chief and Marcus Fenix really aren't Space Marines, at least not by the original standards of Warhammer and Starship Troopers (the book, not the movie). I would say that we do have two viable definitions here; Warhammer space marines have powered exoskeletons that can take a tank round like a bee sting, with default weapons including .50-caliber miniguns and rocket launchers. The other type I don't think there are really any good examples of, at least in gaming; these are the "US marines in space." Highly skilled, fast-deployment soldiers that specialize primarily in establishing beachheads on hostile planets. What I DON'T think space marines are are the idiot soldiers from Halo and other such games. Marines are very, very good at what they do, which those guys were not. A fairly good example actually does come to mind, now that I think about it; Delta squad from Republic Commando actually fits my description pretty well. While they did operate in a more "precision strike" capacity, (in other words, as commandos), multiply them by 250 and you have a battalion of this second kind of space marine; kitted out with pretty much what the grunts have (maybe a little better), but what sets them apart from the grunts is their skill level.