Realism with weapons.

[Peter Storer]

Ok, I am aware that this is a truely petty quibble, but I hate the way so many fantasy games seem to feel obliged to make weapons not just more powerful as the game progresses, but also progressivly bigger and more ornate. This leads inevitably to having 5'6" elves wielding swords 8' long, 2' wide, and more gaudily decorated than your average christmas tree.
Am I the only person this annoys?
Is anyone realy attracted to a game based on the size of the weapon you get to swing around?

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I do find that the massive swords you see in certain animes completely break any immersion or seriousness I could have had for a show, but I also get a bit annoyed at less severe breaches of realism in fantasy, like huge double bitted axes:


Yes, I know it's a nit-pick, but it just annoys me whenever I see one in a film, or someone duel wielding full sized swords, etc.
The more I learn about medieval weapons, the more I find wrong in Hollywood and fantasy depictions, and it can be very immersion breaking.

 

[Marter]

Wait, so characters in these anime shows and fantasy games fight things like dragons and mythical beasts, but you need them to be having regular-sized swords so that it's "realistic"?

Think like this: In the diegesis of that show/game, the swords are big but they aren't heavy. Therefore, these people can wield them the way they do, and your so-called "realism" isn't shattered -- not that they are going for "realism" anyway.

 

[gigastar]

When it comes to swords im a believer of "function is beauty".

Now when it comes to a game like Devil May Cry, where greatswords are a normal weapon to have among protagonists and are either magical or have an engine in them, i just say "meh, just go with it".

 

[LiberalSquirrel]

Honestly, I find that video game weapons fall mostly under "Rule of Cool" for me. I mean... I mostly play fantasy games. I honestly don't care that my tiny little elf character is wielding a sword bigger than he is, because he's also fighting a dragon that should be able to swallow him in an instant. If I can accept the unrealistic dragon, I can accept the unrealistic weapons. I can understand if that bothers some people... but as for me, I don't care in the least.

 

[WouldYouKindly]

It depends on the game. If you're in a realistic, low, or dark fantasy setting, normal sized weapons would be a nice change of pace from the oversized behemoths.

If you're in a high fantasy or JRPG, realism is absolutely NEVER considered. As long as the swords aren't the size of buildings, it's pretty OK.

Don't forget Sephiroth's 9 foot katana.

 

[Levethian]

I do find that the massive swords you see in certain animes completely break any immersion or seriousness I could have had for a show, but I also get a bit annoyed at less severe breaches of realism in fantasy, like huge double bitted axes:


Yes, I know it's a nit-pick, but it just annoys me whenever I see one in a film, or someone duel wielding full sized swords, etc.
The more I learn about medieval weapons, the more I find wrong in Hollywood and fantasy depictions, and it can be very immersion breaking.

Thanks for introducing me to that channel
Lots of academic (*cough* *nerdy*) info on medieval weaponry.

Agree with OP - weapons that defy common sense / physics do not help immersion. Except for people who don't understand common sense / physics...

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Wait, so characters in these anime shows and fantasy games fight things like dragons and mythical beasts, but you need them to be having regular-sized swords so that it's "realistic"?

Think like this: In the diegesis of that show/game, the swords are big but they aren't heavy. Therefore, these people can wield them the way they do, and your so-called "realism" isn't shattered -- not that they are going for "realism" anyway.

I fully understand that it is nit-picking, and quite petty, but I can't help but think "Urgh, that's so silly" when these characters are swinging weapons 3 times as large and heavy as they are, because even in fantasy worlds general rules are usually followed, like the laws of gravity, the need to eat and drink, the inability to see in the dark, the combustion of materials. etc.
If a character gets fed through a meat grinder and comes out the other end in a spagetti-like mess, but still is able to talk and walk around etc, and a doctor heals him by sewing him back together, I would say that would be unbelievable. I feel the same way when a character who doesn;t have overt superhuman abilities, performs a feat well beyond the bounds of human ability, such as jumping 35,000 feet in the air to land on a passenger aircraft, when they don't have any enhanced jumping capabilities, or lifting a mountain above their head. To me personally, using the massive swords falls under the same category.

You mentioned that the swords are big but not heavy, I suppose that would explain why the characters can hold them, but
1) I have never actually heard anyone state that in a show
2) They would still be very awkward to fight with, regardless of weight. Imagine trying to swordfight with an inflatable couch.

At the end of the day it's just my own opinion about what I find acceptable in a fantasy show, and as a bit of an amateur historian and weapon buff, I just can't accept the liberties they often take with weapons and fighting styles (for example, Lancelot in the modern King Arthur movie annoyed me by his duel wielding two full sized swords)

 

[Emperor Nat]

I do find that the massive swords you see in certain animes completely break any immersion or seriousness I could have had for a show, but I also get a bit annoyed at less severe breaches of realism in fantasy, like huge double bitted axes:


Yes, I know it's a nit-pick, but it just annoys me whenever I see one in a film, or someone duel wielding full sized swords, etc.
The more I learn about medieval weapons, the more I find wrong in Hollywood and fantasy depictions, and it can be very immersion breaking.

Thanks for introducing me to this.

I would have to say that fantasy is fantasy for a reason. It makes me think of Magic A = Magic A.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA

Simply put... fantasy is consistent with its own rules. If they're using these axes in battle, we can assume that A) they're strong enough for the increased weight to not be a problem or B) the axe is forged in such a way that it's light enough to use, but thick enough not to break.

 

[Vesuvius Hetlan]

You mean like these?

Spoiler

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

What always annoys me is when characters use a giant sword and wear it on their back in a full scabbard. HOW THE HELL DO THEY DRAW THEM?! Seriously, their arms aren't long enough to draw a sword that big from behind their back, and the sword's blade doesn't bend, so the only way it would be physically possible for them to get the sword out would be to do a handstand and wait for it to fall out of the scabbard on its own.

 

[Nieroshai]

When it comes to swords im a believer of "function is beauty".

Now when it comes to a game like Devil May Cry, where greatswords are a normal weapon to have among protagonists and are either magical or have an engine in them, i just say "meh, just go with it".

Here's my thought. Agreeing wholeheartedly by the way.
It makes perfect sense for a character with supernatural strength to use a heavier weapon. Cloud Strife, for example, is genetically modified and can wield a whole freaking tombstone for a sword as if it was just a greatsword, considering his abilities also of being able to leap to the second or third story building while still carrying such a weapon. Conan, on the other hand, is just muscular. He has to stick with normal greatswords or tear something in his shoulders or throw out his back. So it depends on what kind of fantasy setting. If the character is human, or around that strength rating, then of course bigger and freakier weapons become out of the question. But Dante can run up a building and survive impalement, so one-handing a greatsword like a rapier doesn't seem any more ludicrous than Dante himself.

 

[SilentCom]

I prefer a relatively simple looking sword but with a slight magical glow in my fantasy games. Large weapons are a little distracting because I'll not sure if my character is swinging the weapon or my character is just an accessory attached to it.

 

[demoman_chaos]

One thing that annoys me is the relationship between armor and weapons, particularly in movies. Watch any medieval blockbuster and count the number of mail armored goons cut with slice. All of those men died not from their wounds, but from not being named characters. A drawing slice on mail is utterly useless and I am not going to bother trying to explain how plate armor is not made of something weak like paper mache (or Raditz). Armor only seems to work when you are a named character important to the plot, except when the plot demands that you die.

Here's my thought. Agreeing wholeheartedly by the way.
It makes perfect sense for a character with supernatural strength to use a heavier weapon. Cloud Strife, for example, is genetically modified and can wield a whole freaking tombstone for a sword as if it was just a greatsword, considering his abilities also of being able to leap to the second or third story building while still carrying such a weapon. Conan, on the other hand, is just muscular. He has to stick with normal greatswords or tear something in his shoulders or throw out his back. So it depends on what kind of fantasy setting. If the character is human, or around that strength rating, then of course bigger and freakier weapons become out of the question. But Dante can run up a building and survive impalement, so one-handing a greatsword like a rapier doesn't seem any more ludicrous than Dante himself.

What is the point of something that ridiculously big? It cannot be useful in close combat so a quick fellow with a dagger will easily trump someone with overcompensatorypieceofmetalvariety#6. It is like when fighting someone with a spear, once you get past the tip there isn't much they can do besides die.

 

[Freaky Lou]

I just can't shake the feeling that there are Freudian reasons for the abundance of massive weapons in anime. Their actual phalluses are always drawn the same way, so...

 

[Smooth Operator]

Hilarious, nevermind the magix, dragons, all sorts of fairy tail creatures, and people with superman strength.... those are all cool, it's the swords and axes that bother us!
So unrealistic!

Fantasy stories without realism... what will people think of next.

 

[Nieroshai]

One thing that annoys me is the relationship between armor and weapons, particularly in movies. Watch any medieval blockbuster and count the number of mail armored goons cut with slice. All of those men died not from their wounds, but from not being named characters. A drawing slice on mail is utterly useless and I am not going to bother trying to explain how plate armor is not made of something weak like paper mache (or Raditz). Armor only seems to work when you are a named character important to the plot, except when the plot demands that you die.

Here's my thought. Agreeing wholeheartedly by the way.
It makes perfect sense for a character with supernatural strength to use a heavier weapon. Cloud Strife, for example, is genetically modified and can wield a whole freaking tombstone for a sword as if it was just a greatsword, considering his abilities also of being able to leap to the second or third story building while still carrying such a weapon. Conan, on the other hand, is just muscular. He has to stick with normal greatswords or tear something in his shoulders or throw out his back. So it depends on what kind of fantasy setting. If the character is human, or around that strength rating, then of course bigger and freakier weapons become out of the question. But Dante can run up a building and survive impalement, so one-handing a greatsword like a rapier doesn't seem any more ludicrous than Dante himself.

What is the point of something that ridiculously big? It cannot be useful in close combat so a quick fellow with a dagger will easily trump someone with overcompensatorypieceofmetalvariety#6. It is like when fighting someone with a spear, once you get past the tip there isn't much they can do besides die.

A melee weapon's damage has multiple factors. Speed, momentum, sharpness, etc. The point of a large weapon is that it is more likely to do massive smashing damage and cleave all the way through, due to having more momentum. That dagger wielder would have to get close first to be effective, and dodge the attack in the first place. Keep in mind, the wielder would have to be immensively powerful in the first place, and to that wielder the weapon would feel like a lighter class of weapon. Let's use D&D as an example. A heavy halfling greatsword is a really light orc longsword. A halfling couldn't even lift an orc greatsword in any way useful in combat. Therefore, why handicap Dante or Cloud with weapons that deal less damage when they are dextrous with oversized weapons due to being not quite human? In a game like Skyrim, it's understandable that you can't do that since you're, well, human or something similar. But this is getting long.
TL;DR: in realistic fantasy, there is no excuse for oversized weapons. In epic high fantasy, the wielder has a magical reason for being able to do whatever the hell he pleases. Setting is everything, defines everything. sometimes there is a place for over-the-top.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

OH HAI THARR

You swing that thing once, your weapon is going to be impaled a foot into the ground, stuck, wit you having a brocken spine and who every you were trying to kill stabbing you to pieces.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

One thing that annoys me is the relationship between armor and weapons, particularly in movies. Watch any medieval blockbuster and count the number of mail armored goons cut with slice. All of those men died not from their wounds, but from not being named characters. A drawing slice on mail is utterly useless and I am not going to bother trying to explain how plate armor is not made of something weak like paper mache (or Raditz). Armor only seems to work when you are a named character important to the plot, except when the plot demands that you die.

Here's my thought. Agreeing wholeheartedly by the way.
It makes perfect sense for a character with supernatural strength to use a heavier weapon. Cloud Strife, for example, is genetically modified and can wield a whole freaking tombstone for a sword as if it was just a greatsword, considering his abilities also of being able to leap to the second or third story building while still carrying such a weapon. Conan, on the other hand, is just muscular. He has to stick with normal greatswords or tear something in his shoulders or throw out his back. So it depends on what kind of fantasy setting. If the character is human, or around that strength rating, then of course bigger and freakier weapons become out of the question. But Dante can run up a building and survive impalement, so one-handing a greatsword like a rapier doesn't seem any more ludicrous than Dante himself.

What is the point of something that ridiculously big? It cannot be useful in close combat so a quick fellow with a dagger will easily trump someone with overcompensatorypieceofmetalvariety#6. It is like when fighting someone with a spear, once you get past the tip there isn't much they can do besides die.

A melee weapon's damage has multiple factors. Speed, momentum, sharpness, etc. The point of a large weapon is that it is more likely to do massive smashing damage and cleave all the way through, due to having more momentum. That dagger wielder would have to get close first to be effective, and dodge the attack in the first place. Keep in mind, the wielder would have to be immensively powerful in the first place, and to that wielder the weapon would feel like a lighter class of weapon. Let's use D&D as an example. A heavy halfling greatsword is a really light orc longsword. A halfling couldn't even lift an orc greatsword in any way useful in combat. Therefore, why handicap Dante or Cloud with weapons that deal less damage when they are dextrous with oversized weapons due to being not quite human? In a game like Skyrim, it's understandable that you can't do that since you're, well, human or something similar. But this is getting long.

Bigger swords have had their uses in history. Large swords are actually the only swords that have much uses as single primary weapon. The No dachi and long swords were highly effective on the open battlefield, since any strike landed by these weapons was going to do a LOT of damage to your enemy. Other, lighter, swords such as the gladius, the cutlass, or the katana were used respectably in conjunction with a heavy shield, as a up close and personal weapon on crowded decks where one can't have the ability to make long swings, or as a side arm (the legend of the katana weilding samuri charging into battle is little more then a legend). However, their is an upper limit for putting all stats into one thing.

No matter how strong you are, inertia is going to make swinging that thing about as fast as a glacier even if you were the Hulk. If you were in any kind of confined space, you would be screwed with that sword. However, if you did have the ability to actually hold that thing, you could most likely shatter bones by just punching your enemy, if not out right killing them.

 

[Bambi On Toast]

Ok, I am aware that this is a truely petty quibble, but I hate the way so many fantasy games seem to feel obliged to make weapons not just more powerful as the game progresses, but also progressivly bigger and more ornate. This leads inevitably to having 5'6" elves wielding swords 8' long, 2' wide, and more gaudily decorated than your average christmas tree.
Am I the only person this annoys?
Is anyone realy attracted to a game based on the size of the weapon you get to swing around?

I agree. It looks ridiculous. I guess the only way these JRPG folks can make their petite, androgynous characters actually look tough is by equipping them with inexplicably large swords to compensate.