Recent Captain America comic reveal is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

I've seen that picture so many times on the this forum, but I still don't know where it came from. The Ultimate universe?

Yeah, I looked around and it is indeed from the Ultimate universe. Personally I thought it was from Civil War, which did a good job of fucking up everyone's characterization.

I mean compare this to the mainstream universe, where Captain America flat out says he doesn't like France surrender jokes, BECAUSE HE FOUGHT ALONGSIDE THE MAQUIS!

Spoiler

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/french2.jpg

I remember reading on TV tropes that during the Winter Solider arc, that was put in by the author precisely because of that French joke was so retarded.
Besides didn't the whole meme of France being surrender monkeys only pick up after they refused to help the US invade Iraq?...I can only imagine who had the last laugh after that shit-show...

 

[Parasondox]

Wait, what? That's like God going, "You know, the Devil isnt a bad guy and him and I are besties".

Why in the triple digit fuck would Cap be with Hydra? Yes I support the "wait and see" movement but if the out come is a crock of shit then, ma'am, it's a crock of shit.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Besides didn't the whole meme of France being surrender monkeys only pick up after they refused to help the US invade Iraq?...I can only imagine who had the last laugh after that shit-show...

IIRC, it was earlier than that, during the cold war when France would support the US on some other venture. Got going again with "freedom fries" during the 2nd Gulf War. And given the results of the Iraq War, doubt the French are still laughing.

I'm also led to believe that before WW2 there was also a lot of hostility towards the French military from allied officers who served with them in WW1. Oddly, most of those officers were saying good things about them at the time and for a few years afterwards, but feelings towards the French changed.

 

[WolfThomas]

If you read comics at all, you will be aware that this is a brief storyline that'll last maybe six issues before it's revealed that the Red Skull brainwashed Cap (or made Kobik recreate him different when de-aging him) or something along these lines but because Cap is so good he fights it off and punches Red Skull in the jaw.

It's clearly this. It's like that time everyone was pissed Thor was being replaced with Tanaraus God of Thunder. When it was only a short story about Ulik the Troll using magic to usurp the temporarily dead Thor's place.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

That's rich! Possibly one of the worst things you can do with Steve Rogers. Is this what they brought him back for? They should have just left him a frail old man.

 

[Imre Csete]

Oooh, I wasn't around the geek part of the internet when One More Day happened, this is exciting. I can see an epic fail in the making.

 

[The Philistine]

The sensationalism behind it is so obvious that it's failed to generate more curiosity than exasperation. Like opening with "This hero dies!", except replacing the tedium of an overdone trope with a thick layer of stupid.

 

[Overhead]

Spoilers be ahead.

<spoiler= So it was just revealed that>So it was just revealed that Captain America has been a member of Hydra for DECADES. Ever since he was a child. Apparently, his mother was recruited into Hydra when he was a boy.

http://rnmiz43724.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/17747iF58128D943C1EA17/image-size/original?v=v2&px=-1

The next few series are going to be about Cap keeping his allegiances secret, with only him and the readers knowing he is an agent of Hydra. Yeah, even Hydra doesn't know he's part of Hydra

Am I the only one who thinks this is fucking stupid? Is it just me?

Holy shit, I thought Civil War II was a shoddy decision, but this just takes the cake.

You are bad at reading comics if this in any way bothers you.

I'm sorry, I didn't know there were levels of skill involved with reading comics.

It's like if you read Moby Dick and thought "Man, all the symbolism and metaphor must mean that Herman Melville disagrees with the International Whaling Commission's 1982 ban on hunting wales".

Comics do this kind of thing all the time and 99% of the time it is just a return to the status quo.

Wolverine joins Hydra [http://marvel.com/universe/Enemy_of_the_State]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back to normal after he's de-brainwashed.

Thor has beaten up the Avengers and taken over the world [http://comicvine.gamespot.com/thor-70-paradise/4000-99316/]! Oh No! And then a few issues later it is undone by time travel so it never happened.

Hulk has been blasted off into space to never return to Planet Earth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Hulk]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back on earth. (Kind of like the time he was banished to the crossroads. or the Microverse!)

Deadpool has been turned into a zen pacifist and no longer his usual wisecracky killing self [http://www.lionsroar.com/when-deadpool-wasnt-so-violent/]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back to normal.

This kind of stuff happens all the time. There is literally no reason someone who is used to comics would take it seriously.

Even if you're not that familiar with marvel comics, common sense should let you know that the answer to "Is Marvel going to turn one of its successful franchise characters who just had a billion dollar+ movie into a nazi" is "Hell no, there's going to be some kind of twist".

 

[EternallyBored]

If you read comics at all, you will be aware that this is a brief storyline that'll last maybe six issues before it's revealed that the Red Skull brainwashed Cap (or made Kobik recreate him different when de-aging him) or something along these lines but because Cap is so good he fights it off and punches Red Skull in the jaw.

It's clearly this. It's like that time everyone was pissed Thor was being replaced with Tanaraus God of Thunder. When it was only a short story about Ulik the Troll using magic to usurp the temporarily dead Thor's place.

I dont keep up with the Captain America comics much, but doesn't Red Skull still have Professor Xavier's brain? I.E. one of the world's most powerful psychics that can rewrite peoples memories and straight up mind control them. Cause I remember that being a big plot point during the Axis storyline when Red Skull was the main antagonist and ended up switching a bunch of heroes and villains moralities up.

So yeah, I am wondering how many people that are actually upset with this have been reading the comics, because this definitely comes off as Captain America getting mind controlled for a story line before going back to normal. He's not some D-list hero that gets their origin long term retconned by any writer that wants to use him.

 

[Overhead]

If you read comics at all, you will be aware that this is a brief storyline that'll last maybe six issues before it's revealed that the Red Skull brainwashed Cap (or made Kobik recreate him different when de-aging him) or something along these lines but because Cap is so good he fights it off and punches Red Skull in the jaw.

It's clearly this. It's like that time everyone was pissed Thor was being replaced with Tanaraus God of Thunder. When it was only a short story about Ulik the Troll using magic to usurp the temporarily dead Thor's place.

I dont keep up with the Captain America comics much, but doesn't Red Skull still have Professor Xavier's brain? I.E. one of the world's most powerful psychics that can rewrite peoples memories and straight up mind control them. Cause I remember that being a big plot point during the Axis storyline when Red Skull was the main antagonist and ended up switching a bunch of heroes and villains moralities up.

So yeah, I am wondering how many people that are actually upset with this have been reading the comics, because this definitely comes off as Captain America getting mind controlled for a story line before going back to normal. He's not some D-list hero that gets their origin long term retconned by any writer that wants to use him.

Yup.

Another option is timetravel as the Hydra agent who tries to convert Steve's family in the flashbacks is a young woman called Sinclair. One of Red Skull's two key henchmen is his daughter Sin.

Of course it could also be reality warping as Steve was just warped back to youth from old age by a sentient cosmic cube (while telepathic Red Skull was nearby, possibly mentally manipulating the cosmic cube).

There are loads of possible options, only limited by the writer's willingness to make stuff up.

 

[Christian Neihart]

Still saying it's Ultimate Cap. That guy was an asshat.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Spoilers be ahead.

<spoiler= So it was just revealed that>So it was just revealed that Captain America has been a member of Hydra for DECADES. Ever since he was a child. Apparently, his mother was recruited into Hydra when he was a boy.

http://rnmiz43724.i.lithium.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/17747iF58128D943C1EA17/image-size/original?v=v2&px=-1

The next few series are going to be about Cap keeping his allegiances secret, with only him and the readers knowing he is an agent of Hydra. Yeah, even Hydra doesn't know he's part of Hydra

Am I the only one who thinks this is fucking stupid? Is it just me?

Holy shit, I thought Civil War II was a shoddy decision, but this just takes the cake.

You are bad at reading comics if this in any way bothers you.

I'm sorry, I didn't know there were levels of skill involved with reading comics.

It's like if you read Moby Dick and thought "Man, all the symbolism and metaphor must mean that Herman Melville disagrees with the International Whaling Commission's 1982 ban on hunting wales".

Comics do this kind of thing all the time and 99% of the time it is just a return to the status quo.

Wolverine joins Hydra [http://marvel.com/universe/Enemy_of_the_State]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back to normal after he's de-brainwashed.

Thor has beaten up the Avengers and taken over the world [http://comicvine.gamespot.com/thor-70-paradise/4000-99316/]! Oh No! And then a few issues later it is undone by time travel so it never happened.

Hulk has been blasted off into space to never return to Planet Earth [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Hulk]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back on earth. (Kind of like the time he was banished to the crossroads. or the Microverse!)

Deadpool has been turned into a zen pacifist and no longer his usual wisecracky killing self [http://www.lionsroar.com/when-deadpool-wasnt-so-violent/]! Oh No! And then a few issues later he's back to normal.

This kind of stuff happens all the time. There is literally no reason someone who is used to comics would take it seriously.

Even if you're not that familiar with marvel comics, common sense should let you know that the answer to "Is Marvel going to turn one of its successful franchise characters who just had a billion dollar+ movie into a nazi" is "Hell no, there's going to be some kind of twist".

Did I say I was angry that this is going on? Did I say that I thought this was going to be permanent?

No, I said I think that it's a stupid idea. Saying that there is going to be a twist or whatever bullshit the writers are gonna pull out of their asses is not going to change that at its core, this idea is eyerollingly dumb and and is clearly an attempt at controversy and shock value.

I was actually excited for this new run of Captain America, the Sam Wilson series was incredibly boring. So now I guess I either have to wait for this inconsequential run to be over until I get a good Captain America comic, or worse, Marvel sticks to their guns and this bullshit is somehow permanent. Its a lose-lose for me.

 

[Lightspeaker]

This seems incredibly stupid. I don't read comics but I enjoy the movies and just...

No...WHY do this? I'm totally unsurprised that there's a backlash. It just seems ridiculous.

But there are in movie watching and playing enjoying video games.

Drifting off topic a bit here but you reminded me of a routine from one of my favourite comedians.

IIRC, it was earlier than that, during the cold war when France would support the US on some other venture. Got going again with "freedom fries" during the 2nd Gulf War. And given the results of the Iraq War, doubt the French are still laughing.

I have to say that, as a Brit, I'm very against this tendency for Americans and American-originated media of making fun of the French. That's OUR job, damn it!

 

[EternallyBored]

If you read comics at all, you will be aware that this is a brief storyline that'll last maybe six issues before it's revealed that the Red Skull brainwashed Cap (or made Kobik recreate him different when de-aging him) or something along these lines but because Cap is so good he fights it off and punches Red Skull in the jaw.

It's clearly this. It's like that time everyone was pissed Thor was being replaced with Tanaraus God of Thunder. When it was only a short story about Ulik the Troll using magic to usurp the temporarily dead Thor's place.

I dont keep up with the Captain America comics much, but doesn't Red Skull still have Professor Xavier's brain? I.E. one of the world's most powerful psychics that can rewrite peoples memories and straight up mind control them. Cause I remember that being a big plot point during the Axis storyline when Red Skull was the main antagonist and ended up switching a bunch of heroes and villains moralities up.

So yeah, I am wondering how many people that are actually upset with this have been reading the comics, because this definitely comes off as Captain America getting mind controlled for a story line before going back to normal. He's not some D-list hero that gets their origin long term retconned by any writer that wants to use him.

Yup.

Another option is timetravel as the Hydra agent who tries to convert Steve's family in the flashbacks is a young woman called Sinclair. One of Red Skull's two key henchmen is his daughter Sin.

Of course it could also be reality warping as Steve was just warped back to youth from old age by a sentient cosmic cube (while telepathic Red Skull was nearby, possibly mentally manipulating the cosmic cube).

There are loads of possible options, only limited by the writer's willingness to make stuff up.

ahh, didn't know the cosmic cube was involved, I wonder if they'll lampshade the cosmic cube retcon from the 80's where a writer took the Falcon's backstory and made him so he used to be a Black gangster pimp stereotype that retroactively ruined his character. pretty much every other writer ignored that revelation until finally someone came along and fixed it by making it Hydra fucking around with the cosmic cube the reason that the Falcon had a bunch of false memories, and the original origin story being the real one.

Could be an interesting callback to Hydra using the cube to fuck with people's memories before.

 

[Overhead]

Did I say I was angry that this is going on? Did I say that I thought this was going to be permanent?

No, I said I think that it's a stupid idea. Saying that there is going to be a twist or whatever bullshit the writers are gonna pull out of their asses is not going to change that at its core, this idea is eyerollingly dumb and and is clearly an attempt at controversy and shock value.

I was actually excited for this new run of Captain America, the Sam Wilson series was incredibly boring. So now I guess I either have to wait for this inconsequential run to be over until I get a good Captain America comic, or worse, Marvel sticks to their guns and this bullshit is somehow permanent. Its a lose-lose for me.

"Hero turns evil due to villain manipulation, hero fights off villain manipulation, hero punches supervillain in the face, hero wins" is a very basic storyline. It's not at all shocking or a twist. Just this past month in Incredible Hulk, Hulk was manipulated to attack some dwarf dudes and help out the Enchantress. Then he teamed up with Thor, shook it off and ended her schemes. Oh no, what an awful thing to happen! From the start of ANAD Avengers, Kang was manipulating Vision to use him as a weapon. Hell, two years ago the AXIS event made most of the major heroes turn evil!

Anyone with even a passing familiarity with comics should recognise this type of storyline as a common and basic one, one that can be handled well or poorly depending on the writer, but certainly not one that contains shock value. It's commonplace and will end in a few months with Captain America punchign red Skull in the face when he turns good.

Also for clarification, in the OP you buy into Steve having always been a Hydra Agent. He hasn't been. That's only what he currently believes due to the Red Skull's manipulation, we're just waiting to find out exactly how he's been manipulated and how he'll break free.

 

[Overhead]

If you read comics at all, you will be aware that this is a brief storyline that'll last maybe six issues before it's revealed that the Red Skull brainwashed Cap (or made Kobik recreate him different when de-aging him) or something along these lines but because Cap is so good he fights it off and punches Red Skull in the jaw.

It's clearly this. It's like that time everyone was pissed Thor was being replaced with Tanaraus God of Thunder. When it was only a short story about Ulik the Troll using magic to usurp the temporarily dead Thor's place.

I dont keep up with the Captain America comics much, but doesn't Red Skull still have Professor Xavier's brain? I.E. one of the world's most powerful psychics that can rewrite peoples memories and straight up mind control them. Cause I remember that being a big plot point during the Axis storyline when Red Skull was the main antagonist and ended up switching a bunch of heroes and villains moralities up.

So yeah, I am wondering how many people that are actually upset with this have been reading the comics, because this definitely comes off as Captain America getting mind controlled for a story line before going back to normal. He's not some D-list hero that gets their origin long term retconned by any writer that wants to use him.

Yup.

Another option is timetravel as the Hydra agent who tries to convert Steve's family in the flashbacks is a young woman called Sinclair. One of Red Skull's two key henchmen is his daughter Sin.

Of course it could also be reality warping as Steve was just warped back to youth from old age by a sentient cosmic cube (while telepathic Red Skull was nearby, possibly mentally manipulating the cosmic cube).

There are loads of possible options, only limited by the writer's willingness to make stuff up.

ahh, didn't know the cosmic cube was involved, I wonder if they'll lampshade the cosmic cube retcon from the 80's where a writer took the Falcon's backstory and made him so he used to be a Black gangster pimp stereotype that retroactively ruined his character. pretty much every other writer ignored that revelation until finally someone came along and fixed it by making it Hydra fucking around with the cosmic cube the reason that the Falcon had a bunch of false memories, and the original origin story being the real one.

Could be an interesting callback to Hydra using the cube to fuck with people's memories before.

Yeah, Cap just got restored to his normal body. A couple of years ago he had been de-super-serumed and turned into an old man.

He got turned back to his normal useful self during the recent Standoff event by being lead to a sentient cosmic cube by a priest. This priest is later revealed to be the Red Skull in disguise, who brags about how everything is going according to plan and he needs Cap alive for his plans.

It's real obvious that he isn't a Hydra agent and this is just some kind of Red Skull manipulation. I really can't take anyone seriously if they have issues with this as I can't imagine they've read the issue or the storyline.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

If they're doing this just to get people to read the comic... that's pretty despicable. Hopefully this will be one of those things that gets retconned away and forgotten. Goddamnit Marvel, what the hell?!

 

[happyninja42]

If they're doing this just to get people to read the comic... that's pretty despicable. Hopefully this will be one of those things that gets retconned away and forgotten. Goddamnit Marvel, what the hell?!

It's hardly a new thing. All comics do this whenever they shake things up. It's to bolster sales.

 

[Silvanus]

If they're doing this just to get people to read the comic... that's pretty despicable.

I think it's a silly choice (if true), but... isn't selling comics the motivation for most plot developments?

Well, partial motivation. Some writers are in it for the art of good storytelling, sure, but creating something people will enjoy (and thus buy) is a huge part of it too.

 

[Overhead]

If they're doing this just to get people to read the comic... that's pretty despicable. Hopefully this will be one of those things that gets retconned away and forgotten. Goddamnit Marvel, what the hell?!

I don't think it's even that. There was no big press release beforehand, no conversations with retailers to order in extra issue (the way DC did with Rebirth, etc) because it was gonna generate controversy and sell extra issues, etc.

It just seems to be a basic "Good guy is manipulated and turned evil, good guy breaks free, good guy punches bad guy in face" storyline that social media went crazy with.

Red Skull turned Cap evil(ish) 2 years ago in Axis. 3 years before that in Captain America Rebirth Captain was brainwashed into fighting for Red Skull until he was freed by the actions of other heroes.

"Captain America is brainwashed or manipulated into thinking he's Hydra" isn't some radical new storyline that they are trying to use to draw in sales, it's a basic concept that they use a lot (and not just with Cap, but certainly with him too) that has people randomly flipping out this time for no real reason.