Reclaiming SJW

[Silvanus]

Honestly I think SJWs are just backfiring. Seeing what they have to say has just made me more bigoted. Hell, I voted for UKIP in the European elections simply because it would piss off these kind of people... and it did, and they're cries of "IT'S GONNA END UP LIKE NAZI GERMANY !!!!1" were the icing on the cake.

If they dismiss my opinion purely because I'm a normal white male, then I'm just going to dismiss they're opinion because they're not.

Wait, did you just say you dismiss opinions when they don't come from straight white people?

I hope I'm misunderstanding something here.

 

[Genocidicles]

Wait, did you just say you dismiss opinions when they don't come from straight white people?

I hope I'm misunderstanding something here.

I don't do so in the real world, but if some tumblrina is dismissing my opinion because I'm a man then I think I'm justified in dismissing her opinion because she's a woman.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't do so in the real world, but if some tumblrina is dismissing my opinion because I'm a man then I think I'm justified in dismissing her opinion because she's a woman.

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

 

[Genocidicles]

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

In which case, you're dismissing an opinion on the basis of your opponent's poor argument, not because she's a woman.

Doing it on the basis of her sex would defeat any purpose you claimed to have.

 

[ExDeath730]

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

Why?

That's a serious question. Why reply if you think you'll gain nothing and if your reply will only upset the other party? What's to be gained there exactly?

It seems the conversation is pointlessly obscured by folks arguing for the sake of arguing, or because they dislike each other. Is it any wonder that it feels like so little progress is made.

Ever heard the ter schadenfreud? It's the german term for the act of getting hapiness from the misery of people you dislike. This is basically that, he is making the people he dislike miserable and getting satisfaction from this. It's not exactly evil, and can be quite fun when dealing with unreasonable people. It's like playing fire with fire, with the difference that you don't care about the flame that is coming your way.

 

[AJ_Lethal]

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

Why?

That's a serious question. Why reply if you think you'll gain nothing and if your reply will only upset the other party? What's to be gained there exactly?

It seems the conversation is pointlessly obscured by folks arguing for the sake of arguing, or because they dislike each other. Is it any wonder that it feels like so little progress is made.

Ever heard the ter schadenfreud? It's the german term for the act of getting hapiness from the misery of people you dislike. This is basically that, he is making the people he dislike miserable and getting satisfaction from this. It's not exactly evil, and can be quite fun when dealing with unreasonable people. It's like playing fire with fire, with the difference that you don't care about the flame that is coming your way.

But that fire gets in the way of what could be an important discussion :/

Some people just want to watch the world burn, mate.

 

[ExDeath730]

But that fire gets in the way of what could be an important discussion :/

Not really...If it got at a level that the other party is unreasonable, there was no discussion to be had. You can actually identify this quite easily, just see if the other person believes in his opinion, or if they have conviction. If it's the first, there is romm for debate, because the other person will at least understand your opinions and will concede that you can be right about one thing or another.

If the other party is convicted about his opinion, any dicussion is a waste of time. Nothing will change the stance of someone who have conviction that he is right and anyone else is wrong. In the situation he described, the person didn't think his opinion was worth based on his sex, gender, etc... So, there was no discussion to be had, nothing he can say will be taken seriously by the other party, who in his mind will be right no matter what, since he will be discussing with someone "inferior".

 

[chikusho]

Anyone who calls themselves an anything "warrior" needs to reevaluate some things in their life, and trust me, you don't want to be a "warrior." Real warriors fight and die for what they believe in, for the social justice movement there's no one to fight and nothing to die over. You have no tangible enemy, and no "war."

You're not a warrior for posting on the internet in an echo chamber among your peers, who will clap you on the back and parrot you. You're not a "warrior" for pointing out that women get paid less than men, or that minorities do bad on standardized tests because those tests have culturally charged questions.

The term "social justice warrior" makes it sound like you think that you're some kind of avenging angel for the underprivileged, and it makes people who hear you assume that maybe people like you are the ones who need to "check their privilege."

You don't need to "reclaim" the social justice warrior title, what you need to do is stop putting labels on things. Titles are about recognition, and you shouldn't need recognition for your efforts in order to try and better the world. Forget about calling yourself a "social justice warrior" and just do what you think will help your movement. Actions are louder than titles.

The term "Social Justice Warrior" is a pejorative. People discussing and championing social justice did not start calling themselves SJW's, they started being called that by other people as a point of ridicule. Now, one of the ways to respond to that ridicule is to start owning the term.

Also, your last point is blatantly false. Putting labels on things is key for success in anything. And titles and recognition is crucial to the advancement of any movement.

 

[Genocidicles]

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"

Apart from the last guy left, because no one will be able to get him.

That's a pretty immature way to live, son.

I guess it is. I don't go on the internet to be mature.

 

[Sansha]

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

I disagree. I believe gender is ingrained in your mind from birth.

There was an experiment a while ago where a boy's penis was accidentally amputated shortly after birth, so they raised him as a girl, dressing him in girl's clothes and treating him feminine. He continued to display male tendencies throughout his life and the anxiety of his mismatched identification resulted in suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

This, to me, proves that your gender is ingrained in your mind, and no amount of social constructs can change what your mind believes. I think the social construct part of it is whether or not people choose to embrace it and come out as such.

To clarify, do you also believe the gender ingrained upon the child's mind always matches up with their anatomical sex?

No, I don't. What gender your brain aligns to doesn't always match your joybits.

I will continue to tell privileged folk to check their privilege despite the bad wrap that phrase has gotten, and I will continue to fight the good fight with words and deeds no matter how often the ignorant try to pull me down!

Okay, serious question - I'm a white, straight, cisgender male who grew up wealthy, and now - age 26 - am building my own wealth. I own my home in a safe neighborhood, am completely debt free, have a career I love without having to go to college, and am engaged to be married to a woman who shares my position and orientation.

Now, in regards to checking my privilege - of which I clearly have a substantial amount - what exactly does that mean, and what do you propose I do about it?

Well...acknowledging that those things give you certain societal benefits that not everyone has, that affects interactions between both you and them and the way you both interact with others in society, and that this is unfair. That something isn't fine even if it is fine for you.

Now, of course this is fairly basic, commonsense stuff. It's just that it's something that is very easily overlooked even if you're actively making an effort.

Wow, that's fucking stupid. Of course it's unfair. LIFE is fucking unfair. How is it my fault that the way my life began and turned out has given me certain advantages? I'll take the hand I've been dealt and play it as I please; I shouldn't have to give my cards to someone else who's been dealt shit to give them a chance.

I know it sounds utterly objectivist, but I'll not feel guilty about my position. Life is what you make of it. I do sympathize with those who have been dealt shit hands, but I also believe everybody has the opportunity to succeed, and I do look down on people who disadvantage themselves, or simply don't act.

I know what it's like to be poor. My mother, sister and I spent six years living on the margins after we left my dad, which in itself sucked. I haven't been the victim of racial or sexual discrimination, but I've seen it happen to people close to me, and it's fucking appalling.

SJW's need to look at kids in Africa who'll die before puberty, or devadasi prostitute girls in India, people in Palestine - there's your fucking underprivilege.

We think privilege is a Bad Thing, so of course we should try to get rid of it right? Nope! Literally all you need to do about your privilege is be aware of it. That's it! Just be aware of the fact that, if you were black, or a woman, or poor, or transgender, it would be probably be way harder for you to have all the things you have (and if you were any combination of those things, it might even be impossible). And that kind of sucks, right? None of those things should be obstacles to success, but they are, and that's really dumb. Be aware of how you think of other people who are these things, and especially of how you treat them. That's it. It's really that simple.

I'm aware of my position, as well as theirs, but my perception of equality is nothing short of extremist.

Gender, race, religion, sexuality, wealth - all of it is completely irrelevant with the way I deal with people. I treat people exactly the same - with respect and dignity - based on nothing but their character; as in the way they behave towards myself and others.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Wow, that's fucking stupid. Of course it's unfair. LIFE is fucking unfair. How is it my fault that the way my life began and turned out has given me certain advantages? I'll take the hand I've been dealt and play it as I please; I shouldn't have to give my cards to someone else who's been dealt shit to give them a chance.

I know it sounds utterly objectivist, but I'll not feel guilty about my position.

Of course it's not your fault. There is nothing much people can do about their privilege, and feeling guilty about it is pointless at best.

What they can do is be aware of it, and how it affects them and others in their society.

SJW's need to look at kids in Africa who'll die before puberty, or devadasi prostitute girls in India, people in Palestine - there's your fucking underprivilege.

That argument again.

Firstly, there is no reason why people can't care about more than one thing at a time.

Secondly, someone in the West can't really do anything about that. What they can do is pay attention to how their own society works and their part in it.

Third, a greater problem doesn't mean that lesser problems don't exist.

 

[Sansha]

Wow, that's fucking stupid. Of course it's unfair. LIFE is fucking unfair. How is it my fault that the way my life began and turned out has given me certain advantages? I'll take the hand I've been dealt and play it as I please; I shouldn't have to give my cards to someone else who's been dealt shit to give them a chance.

I know it sounds utterly objectivist, but I'll not feel guilty about my position.

Of course it's not your fault. There is nothing much people can do about their privilege, and feeling guilty about it is pointless at best.

What they can do is be aware of it, and how it affects them and others in their society.

SJW's need to look at kids in Africa who'll die before puberty, or devadasi prostitute girls in India, people in Palestine - there's your fucking underprivilege.

That argument again.

Firstly, there is no reason why people can't care about more than one thing at a time.

Secondly, someone in the West can't really do anything about that. What they can do is pay attention to how their own society works and their part in it.

Third, a greater problem doesn't mean that lesser problems don't exist.

I agree with you on all fronts there. My point is that so very much of 'check yo priv' is just flat-out whining that life is hard. Harder for some than others, sure, but what's whining about how much better some people have it going to accomplish? I believe that almost everyone in the West has opportunity to succeed and find happiness.

Sociological problems like how there are people marginalized by factors outside of their control should be brought attention to, as that's clearly a problem, but it's like Bill Cosby said - a lot of people are making no effort, and just blaming others for their disadvantages.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I agree with you on all fronts there. My point is that so very much of 'check yo priv' is just flat-out whining that life is hard. Harder for some than others, sure, but what's whining about how much better some people have it going to accomplish?

Sociological problems like how there are people marginalized by factors outside of their control should be brought attention to, as that's clearly a problem, but it's like Bill Cosby said - a lot of people are making no effort, and just blaming others for their disadvantages.

There's always going to be an element of that, yes, but then part of the problem with privilege is that it tends to seem normal and natural to people that have it, and things being any other way is abnormal.

Similarly, there's an attitude of not wanting to have to deal with/acknowledge issues that don't affect them. For example, parents not wanting to explain to kids what gay people are, or about racism...so can we stop mentioning it so kids won't ask? That works so well for sex and drugs, after all...