Reclaiming SJW

[Frankster]

No, I realize I was being overly hostile to you before. I try to keep calm and rational and understand that people respond far better to gentle reasoning than wild threats and accusations. I suppose at that moment... I dunno. I really, sincerely apologize.

I actually appreciate you providing clarity on it in the form of additional statistics

Man if only more conversations on this topic were like this in these threads. High 5 to the both of ya.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I really, sincerely apologize.

Well now...that's pretty rare. In life, and especially on the internet. Take some delicious cookies. You've...you've earned them.

And thanks for the additional work on sourcing the stats, I appreciate it. Digging through PDFs isn't anyone's idea of a good time.

And I also try to maintain that rape's a problem that effects everyone, and both men and women deserve attention and support for it.

I think we can all agree on that. And if we find someone who does not agree, we will hurl potatoes at them.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I... don't really like the term, honestly. "Social Justice Warrior" sounds like something that would actually be a complete contradiction coming from someone who'd, say, take after Gandhi or Martin Luther King.

As honestly, I've seen some laughably poor rhetoric being spewed on Tumblr. Stuff along the lines of "Don't you go dissing on the Mahatma, or else I'll have to get physical with you!"; that being said without an ounce of sarcasm.

So.....

I agree, that is retarded. "I disagree with your rhetoric as it perpetrates violence against (x) ... people like you should be 'd."

That being said, why would you expect actual debate from Tumblr? That's like expecting a beehive to have a prepared jar of honey for you without having to do any searching or getting overly sticky. If you were actually looking for a debate, why not hop onto a university blog, forum, or those online things which have lecturers and researchers debating eachother in various video and text feed ... things ... I forget what they are called.

Or just hop on down to your local university campus during their open debate panels when a particular topic pops up. Last I recall, I was no longer a student, but they never checked student passcards to see if I were just visiting with a few friends who were currently students.

People don't usually go online with the specific cause of exercising their brain. They go online to post pictures of their animals, watch movies and organise with their friends. Expecting more than this is a bit unfair in the first place.

The aerage person isn't stupid, but that's not to say that the average person does not switch off their brains for 12 hours each day. I know I'm guilty of it, guilty as anyone could possibly be guilty of something not even marginally enforceable by common law. I do it at work ... I shut off my brain until I'm actually requested to do something, or need to organise with the rest of my team ... if you kept your brain switched on every hour of the day you'd go insane. That or suicidally depressed ...

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

In this context, saying "check your privilege" isn't (or shouldn't be) telling someone that they can't comment on an issue, it's telling someone that their viewpoint isn't objective, that they are looking at an issue from an outsider's perspective, which is very different from that of people who have to deal with the issue directly. The perspective of someone that doesn't have to deal with an issue isn't automatically the best one to examine it with.

No one's viewpoint is objective, so by that very fact saying that check your privilege means "your viewpoint isn't objective" just means that "check your privilege" means absolutely nothing. Your viewpoint isn't objective if you're not in a specific group, but your viewpoint is also not objective even if you are part of that group.

"Check your privilege" is just a catchphrase that's used to tell people to shut up. It's basically the same thing as saying "you weren't there, you don't know."

 

[Thaluikhain]

Your viewpoint isn't objective if you're not in a specific group, but your viewpoint is also not objective even if you are part of that group.

Of course, it's only a problem if people are acting like their viewpoint is objective.

It's basically the same thing as saying "you weren't there, you don't know."

If you like, I guess.

 

[Sansha]

I will continue to tell privileged folk to check their privilege despite the bad wrap that phrase has gotten, and I will continue to fight the good fight with words and deeds no matter how often the ignorant try to pull me down!

Okay, serious question - I'm a white, straight, cisgender male who grew up wealthy, and now - age 26 - am building my own wealth. I own my home in a safe neighborhood, am completely debt free, have a career I love without having to go to college, and am engaged to be married to a woman who shares my position and orientation.

Now, in regards to checking my privilege - of which I clearly have a substantial amount - what exactly does that mean, and what do you propose I do about it?

 

[Azure23]

Honestly a lot of the SJW types are just holier-than-thou haters. Racism and sexism is rife, it's just that they hate whites, males and those who are comfortable with the gender identity that matches their sex, oh and sane people. It's the left-wing equivalent to right-wing white supremacist groups.

I used to identify as a male feminist, until I figured out just how cancerous feminism and any other us vs them ism is, even the term is divisive. I just consider myself an equalist/egalitarian now.

Uggh, cool. You're for all the equality all the time for everyone. Saying you're an equalist doesn't mean a damn thing unless you specify who you believe needs the equality. People who care about social justice (dumb warrior tag or not) hate whites, males, and those who are comfortable with the gender identity that "matches" their gender? There are so many problems worth that sentence I can barely even begin to address them.
I guess I'll just start at the start. If all of that rant up there is true: how is it that I'm male, white, heterosexual, and engaged to a fire spewing, cloven hoofed, tumblr using feminist (kidding, she's actually very charming)? It gets even better, her younger sister is bisexual and has a very popular tumblr blog which is about (gasp) social justice (and also Game of thrones and videogames). Clearly by the virtue of my whiteness and penis possession I should be their mortal enemy. Luckily for me my feminist fiancé was not a horrible harpy waiting to snip my dick off, but a reasonable person who grew to look past my white, straight, maleness. Hopefully by now you realize that your rash arguments are massive and absurd generalizations, with that in mind can I just say that the vast majority of people who care about SJ on tumblr don't hate white people, or males, or straight people. They hate stupid people and people that do horrible things like oppress and murder and rape. And for all the extremist viewpoints expressed by a very small minority on tumblr, I see ten idiots threatening murder over the next balance patch to their favorite fucking game. Say what you want about those extremists, but at least they're angry over something that matters worth two shits on the long scale.

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

 

[Sansha]

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

I disagree. I believe gender is ingrained in your mind from birth.

There was an experiment a while ago where a boy's penis was accidentally amputated shortly after birth, so they raised him as a girl, dressing him in girl's clothes and treating him feminine. He continued to display male tendencies throughout his life and the anxiety of his mismatched identification resulted in suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

This, to me, proves that your gender is ingrained in your mind, and no amount of social constructs can change what your mind believes. I think the social construct part of it is whether or not people choose to embrace it and come out as such.

 

[Thaluikhain]

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

I disagree. I believe gender is ingrained in your mind from birth.

There was an experiment a while ago where a boy's penis was accidentally amputated shortly after birth, so they raised him as a girl, dressing him in girl's clothes and treating him feminine. He continued to display male tendencies throughout his life and the anxiety of his mismatched identification resulted in suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

This, to me, proves that your gender is ingrained in your mind, and no amount of social constructs can change what your mind believes. I think the social construct part of it is whether or not people choose to embrace it and come out as such.

Wasn't that experiment rather horribly done, though?

In any case, gender roles vary between societies..

 

[AJ_Lethal]

Okay, serious question - I'm a white, straight, cisgender male who grew up wealthy, and now - age 26 - am building my own wealth. I own my home in a safe neighborhood, am completely debt free, have a career I love without having to go to college, and am engaged to be married to a woman who shares my position and orientation.

Now, in regards to checking my privilege - of which I clearly have a substantial amount - what exactly does that mean, and what do you propose I do about it?

Because if you're a white straight dude you must lack emphaty, according to SJWs.

"Check your privilege" either implies that you:

A) are a white cisgendered person (a projection/gross generalization)
B) that white cisgendered people lack emphaty (a stupidly cynical assumption made from a gross generalization based on ill concieved precepts, which is intellectually dishonest and leads to hypocrisy)

"Check your privilege" is either a cheap, hamfisted attempt to induce emphaty (or guilt) or just a way to attempt to end an argument by the means of force.

Sharing you life story is a better way to induce emphaty.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I will continue to tell privileged folk to check their privilege despite the bad wrap that phrase has gotten, and I will continue to fight the good fight with words and deeds no matter how often the ignorant try to pull me down!

Okay, serious question - I'm a white, straight, cisgender male who grew up wealthy, and now - age 26 - am building my own wealth. I own my home in a safe neighborhood, am completely debt free, have a career I love without having to go to college, and am engaged to be married to a woman who shares my position and orientation.

Now, in regards to checking my privilege - of which I clearly have a substantial amount - what exactly does that mean, and what do you propose I do about it?

Well...acknowledging that those things give you certain societal benefits that not everyone has, that affects interactions between both you and them and the way you both interact with others in society, and that this is unfair. That something isn't fine even if it is fine for you.

Now, of course this is fairly basic, commonsense stuff. It's just that it's something that is very easily overlooked even if you're actively making an effort.

 

[Lilani]

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

I disagree. I believe gender is ingrained in your mind from birth.

There was an experiment a while ago where a boy's penis was accidentally amputated shortly after birth, so they raised him as a girl, dressing him in girl's clothes and treating him feminine. He continued to display male tendencies throughout his life and the anxiety of his mismatched identification resulted in suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

This, to me, proves that your gender is ingrained in your mind, and no amount of social constructs can change what your mind believes. I think the social construct part of it is whether or not people choose to embrace it and come out as such.

To clarify, do you also believe the gender ingrained upon the child's mind always matches up with their anatomical sex?

 

[Gorrath]

And you know what? Take a fucking freshman sociology class, any dumbass college kid will tell you that gender is socially constructed and it doesn't have anything to do with biological sex. So don't give me any more of that "gender that matches their sex" idiocy. Clearly you were never a feminist of any description, I don't know any who would put up with that bullshit.

Let's be clear here. Gender roles are often socially constructed with some having their roots in biological and sociological evolution. Gender itself is not merely a social construct, but societies play a big role in how people define their gender. There is a complex interplay between society, gender, sex, biology and evolution.

Any first year physics student can tell you what a proton is in a second. A physics student finishing up their graduate degree will tell you what a proton is in fifty pages, with a bunch of hedging along the way. A tenured physics professor will need to have a cup of coffee, take a look out the window for a while and tell you what current theory says but note that we need to wait until the next round of data comes out of France before he can give you an answer. So yeah, any dumbass freshman college kid sure can say that gender is nothing but a social construct, but that sure as shit doesn't indicate they have a comprehensive understanding of what the hell they're talking about.

 

[Genocidicles]

Honestly I think SJWs are just backfiring. Seeing what they have to say has just made me more bigoted. Hell, I voted for UKIP in the European elections simply because it would piss off these kind of people... and it did, and they're cries of "IT'S GONNA END UP LIKE NAZI GERMANY !!!!1" were the icing on the cake.

If they dismiss my opinion purely because I'm a normal white male, then I'm just going to dismiss they're opinion because they're not.

 

[Silvanus]

Honestly I think SJWs are just backfiring. Seeing what they have to say has just made me more bigoted. Hell, I voted for UKIP in the European elections simply because it would piss off these kind of people... and it did, and they're cries of "IT'S GONNA END UP LIKE NAZI GERMANY !!!!1" were the icing on the cake.

If they dismiss my opinion purely because I'm a normal white male, then I'm just going to dismiss they're opinion because they're not.

Wait, did you just say you dismiss opinions when they don't come from straight white people?

I hope I'm misunderstanding something here.

 

[Genocidicles]

Wait, did you just say you dismiss opinions when they don't come from straight white people?

I hope I'm misunderstanding something here.

I don't do so in the real world, but if some tumblrina is dismissing my opinion because I'm a man then I think I'm justified in dismissing her opinion because she's a woman.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't do so in the real world, but if some tumblrina is dismissing my opinion because I'm a man then I think I'm justified in dismissing her opinion because she's a woman.

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

 

[Genocidicles]

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

In which case, you're dismissing an opinion on the basis of your opponent's poor argument, not because she's a woman.

Doing it on the basis of her sex would defeat any purpose you claimed to have.

 

[ExDeath730]

You'd have an issue with her dismissing opinions on such flimsy grounds, just not when you do it?

That's just transparent hypocrisy.

I'm doing it in retaliation though. It's more of a 'an eye for an eye' deal.

Why?

That's a serious question. Why reply if you think you'll gain nothing and if your reply will only upset the other party? What's to be gained there exactly?

It seems the conversation is pointlessly obscured by folks arguing for the sake of arguing, or because they dislike each other. Is it any wonder that it feels like so little progress is made.

Ever heard the ter schadenfreud? It's the german term for the act of getting hapiness from the misery of people you dislike. This is basically that, he is making the people he dislike miserable and getting satisfaction from this. It's not exactly evil, and can be quite fun when dealing with unreasonable people. It's like playing fire with fire, with the difference that you don't care about the flame that is coming your way.