Reclaiming SJW

[mecegirl]

I didn't even know that SJW was a thing until a few years ago. I don't care if someone calls me a SJW because I'm not exactally sure how it's supposed to be insulting. It's not as if any arguments against "social justice issues" are new. Its the same shit just lobbied at a different medium. Might as well be arguing on a superhero comic book website for all the difference it makes.

 

[gargantual]

Right I got it. Different thresholds of lunacy that can piss in the pool of competent argument. None of us likes it but *shrugs* eh. whacanyadoreally right?

Isn't kinda odd tho' they're eager to silence questions regarding head mate personalities in responses, like (why not write a novel or try some acting if you want to vicariously live through different personalities for awhile) when an open marketplace of ideas they oh so dislike, is the very foundation for their creative *shrug* expressions.

If only more folks that took the term social justice warrior, and demonstrated the 'justice is blind' part when chastising their fellow poster.

It'd be nice to see more friends being made out of intellectual enemies on the internet. Maybe that's already the case, but who can tell at this point.

 

[Cerebrawl]

Honestly a lot of the SJW types are just holier-than-thou haters. Racism and sexism is rife, it's just that they hate whites, males and those who are comfortable with the gender identity that matches their sex, oh and sane people. It's the left-wing equivalent to right-wing white supremacist groups.

I used to identify as a male feminist, until I figured out just how cancerous feminism and any other us vs them ism is, even the term is divisive. I just consider myself an equalist/egalitarian now.

 

[mistahzig1]

The word warrior describing slacktivism is like a cosplay paladin entering a fight with a pool noodle sword...

Sorry, but to me, this can only describe ppl that found a safe echo-chamber where they can vent their personal real-life frustrations and bas experiences. This can't be a more beta personality trait imo.

 

[The Lunatic]

I never understood why fat people claim being thin is a privilege.

Surely having enough money to afford enough food to over eat makes you more privileged than somebody who can't, right?

Anyway, they've always came across as people whom didn't enjoy something and therefore have to insist that nobody else is allowed to enjoy it.

Rather strange, if you ask me.

Surely, if you didn't enjoy it, perhaps it's just not for you in the first place?

Either way, not going to happen.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I never understood why fat people claim being thin is a privilege.

It's because society (at present) looks down on fat people, and not thin people (on those grounds).

Surely having enough money to afford enough food to over eat makes you more privileged than somebody who can't, right?

You're assuming being fat is simply due to eating more, and in most modern western nations, people (mostly) have enough food to eat. There are nutritional problems, yes, but these tend to make people more, not less, fat.

 

[Namehere]

I'm pretty sick of this 'check your privilege' movement from the SJW crowd. Its seeped into 'recognized' university 'programs' here in Canada and devolved into minority students gripping about the prejudice they've faced for a half hour or so, while majority 'SWM' ? straight white male ? students sit in their huddle talking about how peachy keen life is for them. The two huddles then get together so that the minority students can vent aggressively at the 'majority' students. And if any of those majority students have something to say, they're told: ?Check your privilege.? This isn't something they're told to make them think, it's something their told to make them shut up.

I've heard it both ways. I've heard: ?I spend so much time trying to teach these people how privileged they are and what they do to others, that sometimes I just don't want to talk about it anymore.? Which is fine... except you've started a dialogue and if you're done talking and the conflict remains, what else is there? So this is not valid in my opinion. And to avow that this term is used to silence discourse should sound warning alarms to anyone seriously interested in furthering social causes.

What I see in the Check your Privilege movement is all tactics and no strategy. Which is to say; minorities have found what they hope is a tool they can use to silence the majority. I see no strategy for implementing anything beyond silence though. And when talking fails all that's left is silent grudges; undertones of hate that can only build to overtones of hate and beyond... until dialogue is reestablished and with it some hope for something of a result.

I've also heard the argument that it makes people consider how privileged they are... Which I find not only disingenuous but counter intuitive. Such terms are used aggressively. Defensive people don't consider their privileges, they consider themselves under attack and in a potential position of weakness.

Finally I find the whole idea that at a glance you know what privileges someone has, to be bigoted. Some one may have the privilege of living in a city like mine and having access to public transportation such as the subway. This isn't a privilege if your claustrophobic and can't use the damn thing. And you don't see that at a glance in a person unless the first sight you get is them refusing to go into a small space. That a right exists doesn't mean it is exorcized or even valued by the individual possessing it. How many people DON'T vote? Some people like high stress environments. Some people like hot wax. Some people doubtless don't like aspects of society, even ones that others embrace wholeheartedly or wish they had the opportunity to. We're all different, we all have different underlying wants and different needs. Just because two people want to go to school doesn't mean the both want to take an economics course.

To my mind at best the Check your Privilege movement is to be a short lived and foolish flash in the pan ? they happen. At worst it almost seems like an active attempt to promote animosity between groups of people who need to be brought together, not shouted apart.

 

[Asita]

It honestly concerns me that people want to use the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" unironically. To me the term itself has always rather strongly implied that the people it's used to describe have an inflated sense of self-importance (hence 'warrior'). People who actually do things and legitimately raise awareness are Social Justice Activists, not Warriors.

 

[Candidus]

Most inequity doesn't bother me one way or another- probably because as a white, physically fit male in his late twenties I don't suffer from any. To be honest, I'm so busy consuming all the tits-and-ass festooned entertainment I can that I just haven't got time to get wrapped up in frivolities like equal pay for X and Y and broadening the content in this or that medium to address the neglected needs of the Z and P demographic.

They're your inequities and your needs, so you fight for them. And while you're fighting you can call yourself whatever you want. Social Justice Warrior. Power Ranger. Super Saiyan. Knock yourself out.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Most inequity doesn't bother me one way or another- probably because as a white, physically fit male in his late twenties I don't suffer from any. To be honest, I'm so busy consuming all the tits-and-ass festooned entertainment I can that I just haven't got time to get wrapped up in frivolities like equal pay for X and Y and broadening the content in this or that medium to address the neglected needs of the Z and P demographic.

They're your inequities and your needs, so you fight for them. And while you're fighting you can call yourself whatever you want. Social Justice Warrior. Power Ranger. Super Saiyan. Knock yourself out.

That's very selfish, but I guess refreshingly honest.

As I've said before, social justice used to refer to a belief in an equitable share of income throughout society. It was always about socio-economic factors, and primarily it existed to help the working class. Modern "social justice" is pretty much just middle class, college-educated individuals complaining about the most insignificant of first world problems. White, male, cishet privilege doesn't mean shit for an unemployed, poor school dropout living in a town afflicted by urban deprivation and unmitigated de-industrialisation.

Unless, of course, you have to deal with racism, sexism, transphobia or homophobia, which don't go away just because the community is struck by poverty.

Now, you can argue that poverty is the bigger problem, fair enough. Doesn't mean the other problems aren't there.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You know starting off a post with how you are a self described SJW is not really putting your best foot forward considering what that term brings to mind at present. Also saying to someone ''check your privilege'' is basically always going to get a hostile response because it is a hostile statement in itself really. You are attacking them based on something outside their control like gender/orientation/race/wealth.

That they have privilege is not their doing, yes. Whether they keep it in check or not, however, is.

Women have equal rights, its illegal to pay them less, it's illegal to discriminate on gender/race/orientation when hiring. Everybody votes and everybody can sit at the front of the bus. Feminism is over they got everything they wanted.

The problems didn't disappear just because most (hardly all) of them were made illegal.

 

[DEAD34345]

Good news: You don't need to reclaim anything, you already fit the description to a T.

Bad news: That's not a good thing.

[sub]Personally, I was just hoping this thread was a joke, but the reactions from posters on this thread seem to reveal how worryingly normal this stuff is... Depressing.[/sub]

 

[Gorrath]

I will continue to tell privileged folk to check their privilege despite the bad wrap that phrase has gotten, and I will continue to fight the good fight with words and deeds no matter how often the ignorant try to pull me down!! Huzzah!!

Might I suggest you not tell people to "check their privilege"? As others here have said, the idea behind it is about self reflection. Used by someone against someone else, it comes off as an ad hominem attack. It is presumptuous and is often both racist and sexist. This is why the term has a bad wrap, because people have transformed it into a hammer with which to silence and shout down dissenters, which when used that way tends to vary somewhere between a logical fallacy and bigotry.

 

[Piorn]

Alright, I guess?
Keep fighting your werewolves and stuff. I never got into RP myself but I can't blame anyone for doing what they like.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm sorry but how does one keep their privilege in check might I ask??

Mostly by recognising that other people aren't you, that you aren't an expert on their lives, and that things that are perfectly fine for you might not be for others.

This is a lot harder, and more painful, than it sounds.

There are real feminist issues in middle eastern, Asian and African countries but nothing significant in the U.S. or Europe in my surely unpopular opinion.

So...rape isn't a real feminist issue in the West? In many parts of the US, rape kits aren't tested, they are thrown into storage and forgotten about. Topeka, Kansas decriminalised domestic violence to save money. US Republican leaders have said they want to render the right to an abortion meaningless. Sexual assault is covered up by schools and religious groups and the military.

Now, these are just the issues I can think of off the top of my head, there's a lot more, of course. Feminism still has a long way to go, and every step of the way, people will say that it's come far enough, or perhaps too far.

 

[dragonswarrior]

snip

Ha!! Knew I'd get one of those posts.

As a warrior do you actually fight or are you just another anon clicking Post on the internet?

It depends on how you define "Fight." Do I go out and beat up overpriviledged white cis-males? Hell no. That would be stupid and unproductive. However I do make a stand when I see inequity happening in public, which frequently leads to verbal "battles." Which is fairly combative I suppose, gods knows it certainly is stressful. Additionally, as a teacher I go out of my way to educate young children on issues of race/sex/gender/differently abled/etc as actual issues that are happening today as opposed to abstract concepts that were dealt with in the past and are no longer relevant. Which is certainly tricky enough to do with stupid parents breathing down my neck, so again. "Combative" I suppose.

snips

I see several others have already covered the "privileged" thing quite succinctly.

As for what I am doing see above. You make the common mistake of assuming all social inequity happens "somewhere else" and that in fact there is nothing that can be done or needs to be done at home. When this is horribly not the case at all. I see social inequity happening just down the street all the time (sometimes literally in the form of police harassment) and thus do what I can in my home town to make a better future for all of us. And on summer breaks this means posting on the internet in my free time and hoping I can get at least a couple of people to listen. *laughs*

snip

This is kind of the point of my post though. Why would you let a small group of vocal idiots stop you from identifying as a feminist? Why not just be like "I'm a feminist, judge me by what I say not the name". *shrugs* I guess it can go many ways there, but this is the path I choose.

snips

Ya know... Actually that's a good point. *shrugs* *laughs* For me at least, standing up for social issues is a battle. Not the life and limb kind of course, but it's incredibly emotionally and mentally taxing. There are days when I don't feel like an activist, I feel like someone who has just been through a wringer with a thug three weight classes above me. Also, the fact that I was aware of the term Social Justice Warrior LONG before it became a big thing on the internet.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Rape is'nt a feminist issue it's an everyone issue. I don't deny there are more sex crimes against women but the number against men is by no means insignificant. And I dont think institutional cover ups really qualify as a specifically feminist issue.

Oh, certainly male rape is a serious issue. Especially in prisons...society generally seems to view male prison rape as either hilarious, or an important part of the justice system. Both of those are horrific viewpoints.

However, this does not lessen the severity of female rape. People should be concerned with both.

As to rape, or cover ups not being specifically feminist concerns...I'd disagree with that, if because of nothing else that feminists are often very concerned with them. Though, it could be argued that feminists are more concerned with the way society views those things, rather than the crimes themselves. Cover ups happen because people in power believe that the benefits of doing so outweigh the negatives, that is, that punishing people guilty of rape isn't that big a concern...that viewpoint is something feminists generally have an issue with. Likewise, the way society at large views rape, one of the main reasons there is such a problem is due to the way society thinks of what does, and what doesn't, count as rape.

 

[Cecilo]

I'm sorry but how does one keep their privilege in check might I ask??

Mostly by recognising that other people aren't you, that you aren't an expert on their lives, and that things that are perfectly fine for you might not be for others.

This is a lot harder, and more painful, than it sounds.

There are real feminist issues in middle eastern, Asian and African countries but nothing significant in the U.S. or Europe in my surely unpopular opinion.

So...rape isn't a real feminist issue in the West? In many parts of the US, rape kits aren't tested, they are thrown into storage and forgotten about. Topeka, Kansas decriminalised domestic violence to save money. US Republican leaders have said they want to render the right to an abortion meaningless. Sexual assault is covered up by schools and religious groups and the military.

Now, these are just the issues I can think of off the top of my head, there's a lot more, of course. Feminism still has a long way to go, and every step of the way, people will say that it's come far enough, or perhaps too far.

So wait a minute, I am told to check my privilege by one of two people, white SJWs or Other Ethnicity SJWs, White SJWs by the definition of what they are telling me, cannot know what other ethnicity are going through because they are white and therefore have the same unknowable privilege I do, and the other ethnicity can't know because they aren't white. So how can anyone tell anyone else to check their privilege?

 

[dragonswarrior]

Might I suggest you not tell people to "check their privilege"? As others here have said, the idea behind it is about self reflection. Used by someone against someone else, it comes off as an ad hominem attack. It is presumptuous and is often both racist and sexist. This is why the term has a bad wrap, because people have transformed it into a hammer with which to silence and shout down dissenters, which when used that way tends to vary somewhere between a logical fallacy and bigotry.

The problem is, frequently a debate with someone who doesn't check their privilege can't get anywhere unless the actually DO check their privilege. Rather than demonizing the phrase, I'd REALLY like to start seeing it get more acceptance as a concept. It's a good, easy to remember phrase and it represents something that I think is incredibly important and even necessary for society.

I don't see how it's often racist of sexist. Isn't the whole point of the phrase to check those things? Eh, like I said in the OP though, a lot of folks use it without applying it to themselves so you're probably right. *depressed sighs*

Bottom line is, I'd REALLY like for that and Social Justice Warrior to stop being viewed so negatively by everyone. Hence the point of this thread. If even one person begins the path towards changing their views because of this thread then it was worth it.

Rape is'nt a feminist issue it's an everyone issue. I don't deny there are more sex crimes against women but the number against men is by no means insignificant. And I dont think institutional cover ups really qualify as a specifically feminist issue.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime/stb-focus-on--violent-crime-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html

As for your other points, well I can't really argue with those. Fuck those guys.

Rape is a feminist issue for two reasons. One: It disproportionately effects women. And Two: The rape of men can actually be traced back to the Patriarchal Oppressive System (or whatever the hell you wan't to call it.)

Thing is, feminism isn't supposed to be about "Women are superior!" Or... At least not the kind of feminist I am. It's about fixing social issues that came about because several millennium of dominant male power really fucked things up. For women AND men. A convincing argument can be made that the reason male rape is so overlooked is because men aren't supposed to BE raped in the first place. They are the dominant sex. Even when the case is male on male rape a blind eye is turned to it because of this reason. Of course this is stupid, and one of the many things that the feminist movement (in theory) is trying to fix.

Also, as I said. Rape, sexual harassment, and rape culture effect women SO MUCH MORE than it effects men that it isn't even funny.

 

[JoJo]

So...rape isn't a real feminist issue in the West? In many parts of the US, rape kits aren't tested, they are thrown into storage and forgotten about. Topeka, Kansas decriminalised domestic violence to save money. US Republican leaders have said they want to render the right to an abortion meaningless. Sexual assault is covered up by schools and religious groups and the military.

Now, these are just the issues I can think of off the top of my head, there's a lot more, of course. Feminism still has a long way to go, and every step of the way, people will say that it's come far enough, or perhaps too far.

Well, aside from abortion for obvious reasons, can any of the others you mention truly be considered feminist issues? Men and boys are victims of domestic violence and sexual assault too, funnily enough as you mentioned sexual assault being covered up, in the UK at the moment there's a scandal about cover ups of sexual abuse in children's homes by powerful government figures from the 80's where most of the victims were underage males. Personally I don't think it's the right approach to try to gender societal problems that can affect anyone.

Obviously this doesn't apply to female-only issues like abortion and slut-shaming, which certainly are feminist issues.

OT: I can emphasise OP but I wouldn't jump to labelling yourself with a controversial term, it'll just drive away support that you might have been able to win over if you tried a more conciliatory approach. As long as you truly fight for equal rights and don't use it as a shield to attack certain groups, you're fine by me.