Red Cross Investigating Virtual War Crimes

Vicarious Reality

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Does this apply to war games set in the future as well?
How about war games from this time set on an alien planet with no humans around?

ph0b0s123 said:
This actually make me angry. With all the war crimes happening in the real world right now and they are taking time away from dealing with that, to think about virtual worlds. As I said, actually makes me angry.
I agree.
 

Apophenia Overload

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Nov 24, 2009
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And we see the natural overreaction by angry gamers once again reaps its head.

The media loves to sensationalize. They love to sensationalize both violence allegedly committed by video games, and alleged censorship whenever someone non-gamer critiques video games (even though in this case there actually was a study [http://www.trial-ch.org/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/Evenements_et_manifestations/Playing_by_the_Rule.pdf] done on various games about war crimes portrayal, so the people behind this did do their research).

This is not anyone calling for gamers to be slapped with war crimes, anymore than that story a couple months back was about the Pope trying to create a one world nation lolEndTimes currency. Just as that story was really just some obscure agency within the clanking Papal bureaucracy making a recommendation, this story is just some panel at some Red Cross conference making some recommendations that game developers try to be a bit more even-handed or informative in games.

This isn't freaking censorship, people. Read the damn article instead of just the headlines. If people expect games to have any sort of credibility as a media form, let alone "art", they need to play by the rules of society as a whole. These issues should be debated, not mocked with all the intelligence of a 9-year-old on XBox Live.
 

Guardian of Nekops

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You know, a lot of real nations don't follow the Geneva Convention. Even signing nations. In a video game situation, this is GOOD. The enemy abuses of prisoners and civilians are some of the best cues that say, "Yeah, these people are horrible and must be stopped." Again, this is GOOD as you're trying to convince the player to shoot these people.

I mean really. Expecting video game characters to follow the law takes all the monsters out of video games, like it is supposed to do in real life. Who are we going to fight, then?

Let's revisit this idea after the Singularity, when the pixels in our video games are actually sentient. Until then, it has absolutely no relevance.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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its funny, on another site they had a picure of Bioshock

BIOSHOCK out of all things...do you know WHY? Bioshock is so violent?, its because everyone is messed up by ADAM, its because the place is under civil war, its because the protagoist is trapped and must fight his way out to survive

ohhhhhhhhhhhh but YOU wouldnt know anything about that, would you red cross? nope, as far as your concerned its "waaaghhh! KILL SHOOT!!" for no aparent reason

I respect what you do red cross...but please...fuck off
 

Atmos Duality

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So, if this idiotic notion were to pass, will this apply to all other forms of fiction too?
Why not? None of those worlds are real either.

You can't break just the bow of the ship and hope the rest won't sink.
 
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Does the Geneva Convention apply to the Covenant or the Reapers?
Love how an organisation like the red cross manage to waste their own time.
 

BrownGaijin

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I'm pretty sure that this has been brought up, but does the Red Cross have any voice on the treatment of workers (i.e. bus drivers)? If so then there's a game I'd like to point their way:


Playing this from a different angle, Red Cross, if you're not careful, this is what you're going to turn our games into.
 

ElPatron

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Apophenia Overload said:
This isn't freaking censorship, people. Read the damn article instead of just the headlines. If people expect games to have any sort of credibility as a media form, let alone "art", they need to play by the rules of society as a whole. These issues should be debated, not mocked with all the intelligence of a 9-year-old on XBox Live.
1. Who cares if it's art or not?

2. Art does not play by the rules of society either.


So basically movies like Clockwork Orange should not be made because it exposes people to anti-social behavior, even if "virtual"?

Paragon Fury said:
2: Even in games trying to portray combat somewhat realistically or borrowing real-life themes, the conflict or situation are often so far above anything governing normal "war" or have participants who blatantly don't give a shit about the rules of war. EX: Call of Duty, Battlefield, Homefront, Frontlines etc.
Not shooting medics was pretty common during WWII, and I think WWII is still the common standard for "far above anything governing normal".

brazuca said:
to protect the Russian president was pretty much a shot to my intelligence. WTF! Why should I care or find it heroic after killing all those people and not even knowing his name?!
That's the beauty of it.

He's the faceless, unsung hero that will be forgotten but to whom it was more important to take action than to become famous.

If you try to become famous with your efforts during war, what you did has to be damn good or you'll pass for a big moron.

Not that I am trying to say MW has depth - but it takes a real hero to accept oblivion and a medal with no name on it.
 

Spartan448

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.... has NOBODY told them yet that no-one actually follows the rules of the Geneva Convention???
 

zdgrafyd

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http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/faq/ihl-video-games-faq-2011-12-08.htm#.TuDvryV_MfA.twitter

http://news.yahoo.com/red-cross-gamers-safe-war-crimes-prosecution-151052309.html

The ICRC response to this. Turns out this was just the media blowing thing way out of proportion. Thanks to TotalBiscuit for pointing this out.
 

M-E-D The Poet

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Sep 12, 2011
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Greg Tito said:
Red Cross Investigating Virtual War Crimes



The International Committee of the Red Cross may want the rules of the Geneva Convention applied to videogames.

At the 31st meeting of the International Committee of the Red Cross, held this week to discuss many issues in modern combat throughout the world, a smaller panel was convened to discuss videogames and the effect they have on the public. Specifically, the Red Cross investigated several games that depict modern warfare and examined whether the rules of the Geneva Conventions governing protections for wounded soldiers, civilian non-combatants, and prisoners of war should be applied to videogames.

"While the Movement works vigorously to promote international humanitarian law (IHL) worldwide, there is also an audience of approximately 600 million gamers who may be violating IHL in the virtual world," reads the description for the discussion. "Exactly how videogames influence individuals is a hotly debated topic, but for the first time, Movement partners discussed our role and responsibility to take action against violations of IHL in video games."

For those of you unfamiliar with the Geneva Conventions, here's a fifteen second history lesson. The First Geneva Convention was held in the city of Geneva in 1864 and all the major European powers at the time ratified an agreement dictating the engagement of war and guaranteed protections for wounded and sick soldiers. The Convention agreed that medical personnel are protected and soldiers would not be experimented upon or tortured. As war changed, the Convention met three more times and included more nations, the last of which, in 1949, outlined the international humanitarian law that is upheld in all modern warfare today by nearly all nations on the planet. The International Committee of the Red Cross, formed in 1863, organized these conventions and is instrumental in keeping their tenets observed during warfare.

So what does any of this have to do with Modern Warfare 3?

"Participants were asked: 'What should we do, and what is the most effective method?'" continued the description for the discussion. "While National Societies shared their experiences and opinions, there is clearly no simple answer. There is, however, an overall consensus and motivation to take action."

There was also a video "promoting" the event, which seems to draw comparisons between scorekeeping in sports events and scorekeeping in online shooters. [http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/audiovisuals/video/31-int-conf-ihl-video-games-side-event-video-2011.htm]

While it is certainly worthy of discussion how so many games depicting warfare don't actually uphold the rules of engagement which govern behavior in modern war, I fail to see what the Red Cross can or should do about it. Any attempt to write laws or rules about how war can be portrayed in a game would be doomed to failure. The Geneva Conventions have no jurisdiction over our imaginations or creative works, and The Red Cross cannot dictate whether a movie hero tortures a non-combatant or blows up a bus full of nuns on the way to saving the President of the U.N.


Source: IFRC.org [http://www.ifrc.org/en/news-and-media/meetings-and-events/international-conference1/31st-international-conference-of-red-cross-and-red-crescent/daily2/]

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maybe videogames really should be announced to be an art

Then we could just call those games "risque" and nibble away our caviar and crackers in a delighted hum and fiddle with our moustaches