Well this is hardly the first time we've heard about this. I can buy it, long hours are par for the course, but they're not done like that.
Red Dead Redemption Artist Blasts Rockstar San Diego
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
Nope. The law says you can't do that without offering them an hour break (or split up over multiple breaks) some time during the day. It usually says you can't work someone over 40 hours a week without some additional compensation if they're being paid hourly. But people on salary have fuck all rights when it comes down to it. My last employer, who shall remain nameless, routinely did this to their managerial staff during the holiday season. My former manager once related a story about how he'd spent one December a few years earlier, working an 80 hour week at a facility 300 miles from his home, he'd been literally sleeping in his van in the parking lot between shifts for most of the month. And he received no bonus compensation beyond his salary.DTWolfwood said:
EDIT: I'm not saying this isn't incredibly shitty behavior on the part of the company, just that there isn't really any legal recourse.
You just made my afternoon. *Salutes*OniaPL said:
On Topic: I'm sure I've been Ninja'd here, but Mr. Dean should try joining the army; I wonder how he'd like getting shot at for less than minimum wage?
I doubt he'd be complaining about working for Rockstar then.
Like i said if the work gets done whats to stop the person from leaving after 8 hours? your employer can't very well tell you to work extra hours for no extra money. Also he would have no case to lay you off based on productivity if you do what you are responsible to do.Starke said:
Plain and simple here, the employee that's unhappy with his job needs to quit or to demand a better contract. If he's in an industry where other people are willing to work a 72 hour week, he's not going to have a lot of bargaining power because he'll just get replaced by someone who will. He could always try fulfilling his obligations and leaving after whatever he considers a justifiable time and then take the company to court if they fire him (depending on state labor laws), though of course you then get the reputation as being the guy who sued your last employer, rightly or wrongly.
It's not any worse than what a lot of people seem to put up with, and as long as that company can continue to find employees to hire, and they're not breaking the law, they'll keep doing it. I suppose it comes down to what you consider not enough money for 72 hours a week. I had friends working that much or more for some big law firms, pretty much consuming their entire lives for a couple of years, but they were paid outrageous sums of money for it.
It's not any worse than what a lot of people seem to put up with, and as long as that company can continue to find employees to hire, and they're not breaking the law, they'll keep doing it. I suppose it comes down to what you consider not enough money for 72 hours a week. I had friends working that much or more for some big law firms, pretty much consuming their entire lives for a couple of years, but they were paid outrageous sums of money for it.
Small but important point I haven't worked less than a 40 hour week in 15 years. Some people I work with put in 48 hour weeks, year in, year out. Thats what most people do in the real world.Fronzel said:
First of all it's common, and yes normal, for salaried employees to work well more then 40 hour work weeks. Try being a new attorney at a law firm for instance (you'll get paid less as well). I have many friends who work for large companies (like Hitachi for instance) and they quite often work 60+ hours a week, and yes on Saturdays as well.
I fought against the idea many years ago when I was first introduced to being on a Salary. Up till then I had always been paid by the hour and so I expected time and a half for overtime not to mention not that much overtime per week (rarely more then 10 hours unless there was an emergency).
I worked for a company copying floppy discs about 20 years ago and that was my first salaried position. Most of the employees were from Japan and literally worked 10+ hours every day. The guy I worked with not only did that but painted his bosses house on Sunday for free as well. It was crazy.
In theory you can refuse to work the extra hours but the company can then compare your output with the other employees. He who works the least and produces the least get replaced pretty much and you can't legally do anything about it. The company doesn't "FORCE" you to work the extra hours with the threat of being fired directly.....but if you don't produce as much as everyone else (who are working those hours) then you get replaced because of it.
Is it fair? Nope.
It's the way it works.
Especially now with minimum wage being so high In California it's quite often better to not be on Salry since you'll get significantly more money for any overtime, and are far less likely to have to work more then 40 hours anyway. Simple non-skilled jobs often pay $14 an hour base an $21 an hour overtime. A starting teacher, attorney and quite a few salary based skilled jobs with large amounts of training/schooling exp involved start at $30k to $40k a year and require more then 60 hours a week on average.
A 60 hour week with any of the $14 hourly pay jobs (starting) is equal to $58,240 per year. While it's true you won't actually get that much overtime (in fact most of the jobs want to restrict over time to 10% or less (4 or less hours) if possible per week, and many have a MAX amount you are allowed to work) the point is for the same amount of work you'll get paid much more then most starting salaried positions.
In San Francisco near where I live the Minimum wage is $10 an hour ($9.75 actually) which means even high school students can end up making more money during the summer then their teachers do...or newbie attorneys do at a law firm.
One of the new attorneys at the last law firm I worked for passed the bar and was happy to start working as an attorney. She went from getting paid $60k a year at a water treatment plant though to $35k a year at a family law firm. She quit and went back to her old job after just a few months as the hours were much longer and she was new so got all the paperwork etc.
It's not the game industry thats broken, and it's not Rockstar Games thats doing anything wrong. Our system is set up to screw those of us on Salary pretty much.
I fought against the idea many years ago when I was first introduced to being on a Salary. Up till then I had always been paid by the hour and so I expected time and a half for overtime not to mention not that much overtime per week (rarely more then 10 hours unless there was an emergency).
I worked for a company copying floppy discs about 20 years ago and that was my first salaried position. Most of the employees were from Japan and literally worked 10+ hours every day. The guy I worked with not only did that but painted his bosses house on Sunday for free as well. It was crazy.
In theory you can refuse to work the extra hours but the company can then compare your output with the other employees. He who works the least and produces the least get replaced pretty much and you can't legally do anything about it. The company doesn't "FORCE" you to work the extra hours with the threat of being fired directly.....but if you don't produce as much as everyone else (who are working those hours) then you get replaced because of it.
Is it fair? Nope.
It's the way it works.
Especially now with minimum wage being so high In California it's quite often better to not be on Salry since you'll get significantly more money for any overtime, and are far less likely to have to work more then 40 hours anyway. Simple non-skilled jobs often pay $14 an hour base an $21 an hour overtime. A starting teacher, attorney and quite a few salary based skilled jobs with large amounts of training/schooling exp involved start at $30k to $40k a year and require more then 60 hours a week on average.
A 60 hour week with any of the $14 hourly pay jobs (starting) is equal to $58,240 per year. While it's true you won't actually get that much overtime (in fact most of the jobs want to restrict over time to 10% or less (4 or less hours) if possible per week, and many have a MAX amount you are allowed to work) the point is for the same amount of work you'll get paid much more then most starting salaried positions.
In San Francisco near where I live the Minimum wage is $10 an hour ($9.75 actually) which means even high school students can end up making more money during the summer then their teachers do...or newbie attorneys do at a law firm.
One of the new attorneys at the last law firm I worked for passed the bar and was happy to start working as an attorney. She went from getting paid $60k a year at a water treatment plant though to $35k a year at a family law firm. She quit and went back to her old job after just a few months as the hours were much longer and she was new so got all the paperwork etc.
It's not the game industry thats broken, and it's not Rockstar Games thats doing anything wrong. Our system is set up to screw those of us on Salary pretty much.
I'm sorry, I work in Entertainment, salaried, and it's difficult not to have time taken away like this. If I were working for wages, this would change, of course. But these are salaried, usually non-union positions.
Further, my father works for high tech in San Diego, and does exactly the same thing. It is the choice of the worker, of course, but most people fear the loss of their job.
Rockstar San Diego laid off most of their staff - most hired to finish Red Dead - after release. This is a common practice as they're essentially hired for one project, with the possibility of staying on for more.
I hate to say it, but, while it may need to change, that's the attitude of MOST places you work for here in the states.
I understand it is different in Europe, which is a mentality I personally prefer, just isn't the case with most engineering and high tech jobs. This is why most artists I know are freelances, they get paid more for their work than if they were salaried for a period of time.
The statement he made about not being properly trained makes me skeptical - thinking back to all of the incompetents I've had to train over and over and over again.
Further, my father works for high tech in San Diego, and does exactly the same thing. It is the choice of the worker, of course, but most people fear the loss of their job.
Rockstar San Diego laid off most of their staff - most hired to finish Red Dead - after release. This is a common practice as they're essentially hired for one project, with the possibility of staying on for more.
I hate to say it, but, while it may need to change, that's the attitude of MOST places you work for here in the states.
I understand it is different in Europe, which is a mentality I personally prefer, just isn't the case with most engineering and high tech jobs. This is why most artists I know are freelances, they get paid more for their work than if they were salaried for a period of time.
The statement he made about not being properly trained makes me skeptical - thinking back to all of the incompetents I've had to train over and over and over again.
16000 a year is not double minimum wage for a soldier. If a soldier worked a US standard work week, that would come to just above 7 and a half pounds an hour. But you said in the UK, where the legal work week is actual 48 hours a week. So that's approximately £6.40 an hour, which is under the minimum wage for London and less than a pound more than minimum wage elsewhere in the UK.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
However, soldiers don't just work a standard work week. A soldier is expected to come in on weekends, spend time doing drill, and participating in overnight exercises. On top of that, a tour of duty is expected. A standard, 3 month tour of duty means being deployed to a combat zone and living there for three months. Sure, you are provided room and board, but this is a combat zone, you're never really off the clock. You're expected to defend the base. I'd estimate that £16000 a year comes to a bit under £3.40 an hour for soldier. Sure, there's downtime, but it's still a high stress situation and you're only on tour for your job. The guys with families would much rather be at home with their kids, it's not like it's a vacation.
48 hours is the standard work week in the UK. In the EU this is protected, you cannot be fired for not working more than 48 hours a week. But you can for working 47 hours a week.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
And the US has no such legal restrictions. I'm a salaried employee at a software company now. I was told I have to work a minimum of 40 hours a week and am expected to work 45-50 hours a week in my position. Other positions at this job have a 70 hour work week expectation. Some people quit because of it, others work it. Frankly, it is the job, if you don't want to work long hours, don't work in this field. Working to live is all well and good, but it's not how the world works. I enjoy my job and get satisfaction out of it, but I also enjoy my free time. Would I like more free time? Sure, who wouldn't, but I don't think it's disgraceful that people get hired and expected to work 70 hour weeks. I've pulled a few. It's just the way things go sometimes, and if you want to make it, you gotta work.
The swamping is the thing. I've got a minimum of 40 hours a week, but I'm usually doing 45-50 to get everything done. A salaried employee's worth is measured in projects. You're given a task and a deadline and you're expected to do it. Sometimes you can get by with just 40 hours. Other times, the deadlines approaching and you're forced to do 80 hours a week.DTWolfwood said:
I know engineers at Boeing who keep a cot in their office, because as big projects hit, they're doing 100-120 hours a week and just don't go home. On the other hand, when they're done with a project, they have a ton of free time and a lot of money, because they haven't spent any in weeks.
It's the job, if you don't like it, find a different one. The company is doing nothing wrong.
A friend of mine who works for an IT company was told to work additional hours on an over budget project but to not claim those on his timecard.
He asked for that in writing so he could send it to the state department of labor so they could review it and determine what legal action to take. His boss threatened him saying that if he did so he would lose his job. He then held up his phone and showed that the voice recorder was running.
The manager was fired and he has been paid for every hour worked...
He asked for that in writing so he could send it to the state department of labor so they could review it and determine what legal action to take. His boss threatened him saying that if he did so he would lose his job. He then held up his phone and showed that the voice recorder was running.
The manager was fired and he has been paid for every hour worked...
well there in lies the crux of the complaint. this man is suggesting the company just makes you work extra hours for no reason!bojac6 said:
then again i remember reading articles that this was more or less common place in the Video games industry. So agreed
It isn't, we have laws about the length of the working week but in reality outside the public sector its exactly the same. The ones that insisted in working 9-5 are the one now looking for job in the worst recession in 80 yearsjmarquiso said:
Sunshine thats my minimum, in the real world if something needs to be done by a set time you do it or get fired. I also suggest you avoid a job in the medical profession, junior doctors are expected to work 72 hours a week. Silly me clearly games design is more important than saving lives.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said: