Red Dead Redemption Artist Blasts Rockstar San Diego

[jmarquiso]

Sunshine thats my minimum, in the real world if something needs to be done by a set time you do it or get fired. I also suggest you avoid a job in the medical profession, junior doctors are expected to work 72 hours a week. Silly me clearly games design is more important than saving lives.

Clearly junior doctors have a lot more responsibility and duty than games designers. Medicine is far more important than game design. Hence why I find it ridiculous that staff are expected to spend their every waking minute toiling away on ultimately inconsequential bits of interactive entertainment.

Unfortunately, the real world doesn't work that way, even though it should.

It works on money. If the job you're doing makes more money for said company, you're valued more to that company, and therefore paid more.

 

[TransMando]

I really hope this isn't the case. I work a job that sometimes requires 12+ hour days to 'get the job done', but I get paid for all of that time!

At the end of the day you should get paid for the work done!

 

[wulfy42]

Sunshine thats my minimum, in the real world if something needs to be done by a set time you do it or get fired. I also suggest you avoid a job in the medical profession, junior doctors are expected to work 72 hours a week. Silly me clearly games design is more important than saving lives.

Clearly junior doctors have a lot more responsibility and duty than games designers. Medicine is far more important than game design. Hence why I find it ridiculous that staff are expected to spend their every waking minute toiling away on ultimately inconsequential bits of interactive entertainment.

I really hope i'm not the only person who thinks game design is more important then medicine?


It's just me?


Ack!!

 

[wulfy42]

I really hope this isn't the case. I work a job that sometimes requires 12+ hour days to 'get the job done', but I get paid for all of that time!

At the end of the day you should get paid for the work done!

Sadly that is the case and if your getting paid more then $14 an hour at your job your pretty lucky because most companies switch to a salary base after that (since it's so much more cost effective).

I had a friend who got hired at a cell phone company (many years ago when they were still brand new) right out of high school. He got hired at $18 an hour and over the first few years jumped up to $22. He often had to work overtime (on average probably an extra 12 hours a week) but never on the weekend (we were all in our early 20's then and had huge get together/parties all weekend).

He averaged more at 17 then most people did with a Masters degree because of the way he was paid. Sadly he blew everything and when his job went away after about 10 years he had nothing saved up and no marketable skills or training. He ended up living off the government the last time I saw him and was very unhappy with life.

Moral of this story. If your young and have a job that pays a freaking TON.....save some of your money and try and get some training while your at it (night school etc) so when your job ends you still are employable. Oh yeah....and appreciate any job that requires you to work less then 50 hours a week while still paying enough for you to live on comfortably.

Best bet seems to be to get a government job like at the post office etc. They pay around $60k starting where I live, have fixed hours, health care, retirement and high job security (even now). Not easy to get those jobs though of course.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

I work 9-5, 5 days a week. I wouldn't want to spend a minute more at my workplace than that. Not because it's a particularly bad place, but because my time is my time, and I don't want to sacrifice more than is necessary to pay the rent. I have other things I like to do with my day. I once had to sacrifice a weekend to come help out with some IT stuff, for basic pay, and it was shitty as. Being forced to do that week on week would probably drive to to killing someone.

If this guy is telling the truth, then I have lost absolutely all respect for Rockstar. No game, and I mean this, no game is worth treating your employees like slave labour. Not Red Dead, not Halo, not Call Of Duty. Game developers need to organise themselves a union, and they need to do so pronto. Publishers have shown time and again that the welfare of employees is not high on their priority list, and this needs to fucking change.

I'm not saying it doesn't suck... but he basically "signed up" for this.

That's how salary jobs work... ESPECIALLY in the entertainment industry. If he didn't like it he should have quit.

The real tragedy is that he's not receiving credit for his work.

 

[murphy7801]

So.. a disgruntled worker and we can only take his word for it...right.

pc work logs

 

[Da_Schwartz]

So the moral of the story is hard work, long hours and strict management makes good video games at the end of the day. Who knew...Whatever, screw this guy, I'll trade jobs with him anytime.

Whatever the work ethic was it payed of. RDR was the best game they've done to date, the time and energy shows. Or instead they can just push out some more shitty GTA games by the handful.

 

[Worgen]

I really hope this isn't the case. I work a job that sometimes requires 12+ hour days to 'get the job done', but I get paid for all of that time!

At the end of the day you should get paid for the work done!

Sadly that is the case and if your getting paid more then $14 an hour at your job your pretty lucky because most companies switch to a salary base after that (since it's so much more cost effective).

I had a friend who got hired at a cell phone company (many years ago when they were still brand new) right out of high school. He got hired at $18 an hour and over the first few years jumped up to $22. He often had to work overtime (on average probably an extra 12 hours a week) but never on the weekend (we were all in our early 20's then and had huge get together/parties all weekend).

He averaged more at 17 then most people did with a Masters degree because of the way he was paid. Sadly he blew everything and when his job went away after about 10 years he had nothing saved up and no marketable skills or training. He ended up living off the government the last time I saw him and was very unhappy with life.

Moral of this story. If your young and have a job that pays a freaking TON.....save some of your money and try and get some training while your at it (night school etc) so when your job ends you still are employable. Oh yeah....and appreciate any job that requires you to work less then 50 hours a week while still paying enough for you to live on comfortably.

Best bet seems to be to get a government job like at the post office etc. They pay around $60k starting where I live, have fixed hours, health care, retirement and high job security (even now). Not easy to get those jobs though of course.

it really seems like the best deal an employee can hope for is government work, youve got a powerful union looking out for you and the fed is much more adamant about workers rights then allot of places

 

[Starke]

Like i said if the work gets done whats to stop the person from leaving after 8 hours? your employer can't very well tell you to work extra hours for no extra money. Also he would have no case to lay you off based on productivity if you do what you are responsible to do.

Well, that's kinda the issue though, isn't it. The work isn't done. In the case of RDR the work isn't "done" until the product goes gold. In the case of my former employer the work is never done. So, you wouldn't get laid off, but you could get outright fired for walking off in the middle of your work day. Something to remember is that this is a decision made by management.

Also, a job can fire you for whatever reason they want, legally. It's only after the fact, if you decide to sue them that they have to show cause.

 

[3AM]

Sunshine thats my minimum, in the real world if something needs to be done by a set time you do it or get fired. I also suggest you avoid a job in the medical profession, junior doctors are expected to work 72 hours a week. Silly me clearly games design is more important than saving lives.

Clearly junior doctors have a lot more responsibility and duty than games designers. Medicine is far more important than game design. Hence why I find it ridiculous that staff are expected to spend their every waking minute toiling away on ultimately inconsequential bits of interactive entertainment.

This has bothered me for a long time. If I'm sick or hurt I don't want someone working on me who's been awake 72 hours. I want someone who's had a decent meal and a good night's sleep to help me. At least in the US there's the sentiment of doing things because that's how it's been done. Old doctor had to stay awake for 72 hours straight and goddamn if these young pups are gonna have it any easier. In spite of all we know about sleep deprivation we still do it to people and joke about how tough we are at the bar.

The worker is the enemy in the US. They'd do just about anything to get rid of us. Where's all the manufacturing R&D going? Into better products or automated shop floors?

It's common and reasonable to put in long hours as a project nears completion or during crunch time in your industry, but that should be for a limited duration. This story talks about this going on since 2007. That's way too long for this kind of abuse.

I work in IT and have done so in many different industries and I've seen and experienced this kind of thing first hand too often.

In the US we talk big about wanting things to be better for our children and the next generation but when it comes to doing something about it, like ensuring reasonable working hours and fair pair for fair work, we either shut up or side with management because we're afraid of losing our jobs. Management needs to be afraid of losing us.

Salaried =/= enslaved.

 

[The Random One]

Man, Rockstar is poised to take over Activion as the Stupid Evil Game Publisher. Get a grip on, man.

 

[NewYork_Comedian]

Man, Rockstar is poised to take over Activion as the Stupid Evil Game Publisher. Get a grip on, man.

No no , you cant top Activisons [or rather, Bobby Kotick's] douchebaggery.

OT: Wow... thats... pretty sad. Are there any charges he can sue upon them?

 

[A Raging Emo]

So that's how you make awesome games...

They should do this more often. Maybe they could use whips?

You just made my afternoon. *Salutes*

On Topic: I'm sure I've been Ninja'd here, but Mr. Dean should try joining the army; I wonder how he'd like getting shot at for less than minimum wage?

I doubt he'd be complaining about working for Rockstar then.

Any stupid idiot can join the army and the stupider the better because stupid dont ask questions.
Alot of these jobs take a lifetime commitiment to the craft dont fcken compare this kind of a job to a public service job or a retail job you fckwit have some respect to the industry or if you dont know what your talking about then dont say anything at all.

Edit: I agree that he should know what hes getting into.. If you wana work in the industry you gotta do the hard yards. But the comparison to the army is ridiculous.

Alright, you see, here's the thing...

I was making a point.

I understand why you said the things you did about the comparison, and admittedly, said comparison could have been better.

What was running through my head when I made this comparison, is that he should know what he's getting himself into, as you yourself said. Some people become part of the Game Industry without knowing what's expected of them, and the same rings true for the armed forces. I admit, I probably should have worded my post a little better, really.

Edit: Not any "stupid idiot" can join the army.

 

[whycantibelinus]

Not to discredit him or anything but if he wanted to be paid overtime he should not have agreed to a salary position. The theory behind salary is that you are paid to do the job, not paid for your time thus a company during crunch time can legally well within their rights require salary employees to finish the job no matter how long it takes. Unethical? Probably, but I can assure you that his employment contract thoroughly explained these things and he signed on because "OMGZ??!??! WERKZ FUR ROKSTARZ???!!1!1! H3LL5 Y34H!!11!!!!" and more than likely didn't fully read what his contract stipulated was legal. Should Rockstar have probably given people like him a bonus to thank them for doing what they did? Absolutely, but they didn't have to.

 

[asinann]

Wait aren't there laws that say they can't do that? I mean whats to keep him from just leaving after 8 hours? Assuming the work still gets done on time, companies can't lay you off for working hours that are agreed upon. (also assuming they don't swamp you with work)

Everything in your statement is wrong.

The laws are set up so that they have to provide some form of compensation, that compensation could be extra paid time off.

And In the US, an employer can terminate your employment at any time for any reason or for no reason other than a very few illegal reasons unless they are in a contract with you that says otherwise (like a union contract.)

 

[Canid117]

Snip

Seeing as how this guy was a salaried worker they couldn't bring any charges against Rockstar even if they wanted to. Has this guy never heard of crunch time? This kind of thing is pretty standard in the software development industry when deadlines are fast approaching.