Relationship thread: a different view from a different culture

[DesiPrinceX09]

I see many relationship threads on here and I know some people might get annoyed with how many come up because they tend to look the same with not much difference to them so some people might think: "oh great...another one of these stupid relationship threads". We are all mostly gamers here and some of us may fit into the gamer stereotype more than others, especially when it comes to being bad with the opposite sex (and having zero girlfriends all throughout high school and even junior college). I always wondered what it would be like if I made a relationship related thread about myself since I am an extreme minority and have a unique background. So let?s get one big factor out the way: I am a Shia Muslim (somewhat devout, partially religious but mostly spiritual, conservative in some ways but mostly liberal), and dating is forbidden in my religion, by my family, and by my own choice.

Now I figured one way this thread would end up would be a bunch of people telling me how stupid my religion is for restricting dating and that I am stupid for following stupid traditions or that I should say f*ck tradition and date anyway. To all those who want to belittle me and/or my faith: feel free to step in front of a speeding car (I get more than enough of that in my everyday life so sorry about sounding defensive).But this is the escapist so I am hoping for more intelligent and open minded responses (I still have faith in you guys)but this site is still mostly Americans and Europeans so I gotta be prepared for both (sorry I still have small trust issues, no offense!). And just in case this is relevant: I am of Indian/Pakistani/Hindustani/Khoja and Mexican descent and I was born and raised in Lusaka, Zambia until I came to the USA in January 2003.

Okay so now that we got that part out of the way...I am turning 19 soon and I have never been in anything even close to a relationship so I ask you escapists, what's a guy like me to do? And what is your opinion of this? (once again, no belittling my faith, I get more than enough of that daily) Now keep in mind no dating doesn't mean I can't be around girls, I can be friends with girls and be close to them but not intimately; and if I found one that I like, then I can marry her. As my mom says: "marry your best friend", my culture teaches us to develop a relationship with a partner as a friendship first and THEN an intimate relationship (and really get to know them as friend and a person without intimacy getting in the way of knowing their personality to better decide if you really care for them and connect with them). And here's a little 411: arranged marriages are not a huge part of Muslim culture, so don't even bring it up (please!).


I understand that I need to present myself as being desirable by being confident, intelligent, eloquent, interesting, etc. Speaking for myself here I am able to be all those things (without any effort or acting for the sake of impressing a girl), all except for one...confidence. I personally have severe confidence issues, which is unfortunately very common amongst us gamers. I am 19 (in a few days) and I have had zero girlfriends (but then again I am not allowed to date).

I feel that I haven't met a girl who is worth pursuing and battling against my confidence issues so that I may sweep her off her feet. All I see here in America is a bunch of stuck up bitches (or whores) with little or no values (a far cry from my personal moral code) so why would I want to pursue any of them? Yes this is a big, diverse country (and I'm not trying to stereotype) with plenty of fish in the water; but I try and I try...to no avail, only more disappointment and dead ends. I am just your average college student and gamer who seeks to better his life and find happiness, I just so happen to be a follower of Islam; but no one seems to be able to look past that and see me as just a person, as me...I am just an outcast, a pariah.

EDIT: There's no need to lecture me on making generalizations, I am not lumping all American girls (and American people period) together, I don't think that way; it's just what I've come across, and I had hoped I wouldn't need to clarify this but it's okay. As for my moral code: it's personal, something that applies to me and is not based on following my religion's rules. It's based off many ideals and doesn't fit into one category, so don't think that my moral code=Islam.

EDIT 2: Okay so it seems that my second to last paragraph (before my first edit) makes it sound like I only know how to present myself and not "be" myself. This made me realize my lack of development on that thought. I only know how to be myself, I don't know how to be anything else (I am not good at pretending or acting), so I'm good there. And my last paragraph seems to have contradictions (with my digging for gold metaphor). I have never tried to date, never have, never will, I just want to meet girls that I am compatible with (and have tried) and then see which one I want to spend my life with. Like I said, confidence is my main issue. The jumping in front of a speeding car was also just a bit of sarcastic humor, can't a guy say anything without being called zealous anymore?

 

[Dimitriov]

Really not too sure, but it would seem you're likely to want a girl who shares your views. You said many of the girls you see are "a far cry from [your] moral code."

That being said I really don't know where to meet a nice Muslim girl. Not suggesting an arranged marriage (as you said) but I would suggest talking to your family and see if they can help you meet anyone that you might then get to know better.

 

[Syntax Error]

I'm a Roman Catholic (the Baptismal Certificate says so), but not even remotely devout. So, I don't feel that religion would be an issue with me as long as I'm not being force fed with the belief system.

Anyway, I'll be turning 24 and had exactly one relationship that didn't even last a year. Let's just say that it made me appreciate being single. There's probably a bigger reason (family issue I had with my dad, who in one fell swoop turned into a role model for everything I should NOT be in life) that made me somehow indifferent and/or apathetic about finding relationships.

EDIT:
I guess my point here is that you shouldn't feel like you "must" have a relationship by now. When the right one comes along, you'll just know it. That said, you will still need to get out more and meet more people, more so than what you're already doing.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

You're going to have a hard time working with this in the US. The culture is just too different. Note that I'm not belittling your faith, just saying that you're probably going to be looking within that religion for a mate, and probably for someone who, like you, was born and raised outside of the US. Western courtship rituals are really that different from the Middle Eastern variety.

 

[JoJo]

Maybe you could use a muslim dating website to find compatible muslim women living near you to befriend and check out? I'm sure such things must exist, though I couldn't vouch for how useful they would actually be.

 

[Eldarion]

All I see here in America is a bunch of stuck up whores with no values (a far cry from my moral code) so why would I want to pursue any of them? Yes this is a big, diverse country (and I'm not trying to stereotype) with plenty of fish in the water; but I dig and I dig...but no gold, only more dirt and dead ends. I am just your average college student and gamer who seeks to better his life and find happiness, I just so happen to be a follower of Islam; but no one seems to be able to look past that and see me as just a person, as me...I am just an outcast, a pariah.

So you ask us to respect your religion, one that YOU choose to follow and then turn around and make a rash generalization about American girls? No one seems to be able to look past your religion but all you see is whores with no values? If your not trying to stereotype, need to try harder. Also work on that hypocrisy.

What is a "violation of your moral code" by the way? Can you only date other girls that haven't dated at all? You won't date a non virgin? Just trying to establish context so I understand you better.

 

[Aurgelmir]

SNIP

Well first of all I thin your faith gives you one advantage a lot of single guys "on the prowl" don't have; You are not looking to have an intimate relationship with the girls you meet. This means you are "non-threating" to women. You don't HAVE to impress these women to being attracted to you, so you can be whoever you want to be.

That said, you claim a lot of girls don't fit your moral values, and that is probably true with a lot of people, but keep the saying "Don't judge the book by its cover". A lot of people probably judge you too, because of your beliefs, but their prejudice is probably not 100% right all the time.
So my suggestion is go out there and meet people that you want to know more about. You are young, so I guess you are in College or something, use this time to join in on some activities that you think you might enjoy (other than gaming of course), and just meet people.

In the beginning don't focus on meeting only girls, focus on meeting other people in general. As this might help your confidence too

Hope this helps

 

[Azrael the Cat]

If you look around and see most women as 'stuck up whores', that says something about your perspective. I doubt that your religion is your real problem here.

 

[Eldarion]

If you look around and see most women as 'stuck up whores', that says something about your perspective. I doubt that your religion is your real problem here.

I said the same thing basically. I want to know if the OP is one of those people who thinks a sexually active person is automatically a whore or if there are just a lot of sluts where he lives.

 

[DesiPrinceX09]

If you look around and see most women as 'stuck up whores', that says something about your perspective. I doubt that your religion is your real problem here.

I said the same thing basically. I want to know if the OP is one of those people who thinks a sexually active person is automatically a whore or if there are just a lot of sluts where he lives.

I edited my first post, the stuck up whores I speak of is just what I have come across and not what I think all American girls are. And a sexually active person is not necessarily a whore, because whores usually get paid

 

[Nimcha]

I don't think girls don't like you because of your religion, but it seems more likely to me that it is because you are extremely defensive about it. This whole post screams 'look at me I am special due to my religion and fuck anyone who doesn't like that' and then you ask why nobody likes that.

Plus the fact you come off as feeling morally superior for no good reason. Calling all the girls you meet stuck up whores, really?

In short: girls don't want to date you because you act like you're this special case but to most of them you just look like a stuck up, self-righteous ass. That's my viewpoint, you asked for it so I gave it.

 

[Eldarion]

If you look around and see most women as 'stuck up whores', that says something about your perspective. I doubt that your religion is your real problem here.

I said the same thing basically. I want to know if the OP is one of those people who thinks a sexually active person is automatically a whore or if there are just a lot of sluts where he lives.

I edited my first post, the stuck up whores I speak of is just what I have come across and not what I think all American girls are. And a sexually active person is not necessarily a whore, because whores usually get paid

Oh cheeky.

All I can tell you is to keep looking I guess. Try getting out of town for a change, see if its just the girls in your area that are terrible.

 

[The Blue Mongoose]

The culture of the country that you're in (the US I am assuming) is such that dating is the norm. I would suggest seeking out people who share your moral view. I know that most (well, all) of my social circle would not consider marrying someone unless they'd had a significant long term relationship with them.

Personally I'd only marry someone after living with them.

I'm not saying your beliefs and morals need to change, or that they're strange, or bad, or anything.

I'm just saying that looking for someone who will understand or share your views is your best bet.

 

[similar.squirrel]

If you look around and see most women as 'stuck up whores', that says something about your perspective. I doubt that your religion is your real problem here.

I said the same thing basically. I want to know if the OP is one of those people who thinks a sexually active person is automatically a whore or if there are just a lot of sluts where he lives.

I edited my first post, the stuck up whores I speak of is just what I have come across and not what I think all American girls are. And a sexually active person is not necessarily a whore, because whores usually get paid

Real smooth. I would recommend joining a Muslim dating site. You're highly unlikely to find a girl who doesn't clash with your noble worldview elsewhere.

 

[InfiniteSingularity]

I see many relationship threads on here and I know some people might get annoyed with how many come up because they tend to look the same with not much difference to them so some people might think: "oh great...another one of these stupid relationship threads". We are all mostly gamers here and some of us may fit into the gamer stereotype more than others, especially when it comes to being bad with the opposite sex (and having zero girlfriends all throughout high school and even junior college). I always wondered what it would be like if I made a relationship related thread about myself since I am an extreme minority and have a unique background. So let?s get one big factor out the way: I am a Shia Muslim (somewhat devout, partially religious but mostly spiritual, conservative in some ways but mostly liberal), and dating is forbidden in my religion, by my family, and by my own choice.

Now I figured one way this thread would end up would be a bunch of people telling me how stupid my religion is for restricting dating and that I am stupid for following stupid traditions or that I should say f*ck tradition and date anyway. To all those who want to belittle me and/or my faith: feel free to step in front of a speeding car. But this is the escapist so I am hoping for more intelligent and open minded responses (I still have faith in you guys)but this site is still mostly Americans and Europeans so I gotta be prepared for both (sorry I still have small trust issues, no offense!). And just in case this is relevant: I am of Indian/Pakistani/Hindustani/Khoja and Mexican descent and I was born and raised in Lusaka, Zambia until I came to the USA in January 2003.

Okay so now that we got that part out of the way...I am turning 19 soon and I have never been in anything even close to a relationship so I ask you escapists, what's a guy like me to do? And what is your opinion of this? (once again, no belittling my faith, I get more than enough of that daily) Now keep in mind no dating doesn't mean I can't be around girls, I can be friends with girls and be close to them but not intimately; and if I found one that I like, then I can marry her. As my mom says: "marry your best friend", my culture teaches us to develop a relationship with a partner as a friendship first and THEN an intimate relationship (and really get to know them as friend and a person without intimacy getting in the way of knowing their personality to better decide if you really care for them and connect with them). And here's a little 411: arranged marriages are not a huge part of Muslim culture, so don't even bring it up (please!).


I understand that I need to present myself as being desirable by being confident, intelligent, eloquent, interesting, etc. Speaking for myself here I am able to be all those things (without any effort or acting for the sake of impressing a girl), all except for one...confidence. I personally have severe confidence issues, which is unfortunately very common amongst us gamers. I am 19 (in a few days) and I have had zero girlfriends (but then again I am not allowed to date).

I feel that I haven't met a girl who is worth pursuing and battling against my confidence issues so that I may sweep her off her feet. All I see here in America is a bunch of stuck up whores with no values (a far cry from my personal moral code) so why would I want to pursue any of them? Yes this is a big, diverse country (and I'm not trying to stereotype) with plenty of fish in the water; but I dig and I dig...but no gold, only more dirt and dead ends. I am just your average college student and gamer who seeks to better his life and find happiness, I just so happen to be a follower of Islam; but no one seems to be able to look past that and see me as just a person, as me...I am just an outcast, a pariah.

China wants their wall back

Anyway: I agree with your religion's ideas with relationships - I have that sort of relationship with my girlfriend, couldn't ask for anything better. So you're on the right track

You're in America - don't be surprised by the lack of appealing women there (to be fair there are many very attractive people). I would suggest, based on zero evidence other than my limited experience and some logical deduction, that you keep an eye out for a group of friends you could get along with. If you start hanging out with a group, you'll meet heaps more people through that group, and then you'll be led to even more people, and so on - if you make heaps of good friends you can then keep an eye out for a female friend who takes your fancy. Stick to a group that you can get along with, a group which you can identify with, then make some good friends, male or female, and get close to someone you like

For someone in America who follows Islam it can be very hard to move into a group of friends in college; there is a lot of misplaced prejudice against your religion and it's followers in that country, and I can understand it can be very frustrating. But from what I've heard there is often a lot of diversity in the college social groups, so there should be someone you can identify with, and vice versa.

The other thing is you need to relax. Take it easy - don't panic if you find it hard, people are very difficult creatures to understand. Take your time, talk to some classmates about your studies, and unless they're dicks, they'll be friendly enough (bear in mind I am 16 and am still in high school - my knowledge of this is simply based on what i've heard)

One last piece of advice: I know you are devout to your religion, and I fully respect that. But if you feel the need to date, and experiment with relationships, don't feel like you have to adhere to your strict religious values. If you truly believe and wish to follow your religion strictly, then that's who you are, and you need to pursue that, and that's good. But if you feel like you don't want to, or you feel like it doesn't fully suit what you wish in life, or you feel uneasy with it's rules, don't feel like you have to stick to it. I know there's a feeling, an obligation to make your parents proud by following them to some extent (I'm assuming you were raised to Islam - correct me if I am wrong), but you need to remember that you are your own person, you are your own master, and you may not need a strict religious code to tell you what to do. You may be better off with a unique, personal moral code which you decide on yourself - it's up to you. Do what comes naturally. Follow what's true to your heart and soul; and don't feel obliged to follow your parents, religion, culture, or upbringing - know yourself, be yourself, follow yourself. You can take your own path if you so choose. But I am not suggesting you abandon your faith - I am simply pointing out you may not need to stay true to it if you experience some personal conflict between your religion and yourself.

Good luck fellow escapist, I wish you the best

 

[LostTimeLady]

I'm sure this has already been said but I think the trick is to put yourself in social situations where you'll find like-minded individuals, and I'm not just saying you'll meet them at a religious group by any means, often like minded people of general temperment share common interests in other areas.

I definately applaude the philosphy of 'friends first', that definately sounds like a fantastic way to biuld a lasting relationship but that might be tricky if the person you intend to woo isn't of a similar mind set about friendship leading to a lasting committed relationship.

I too am not someone who could ever have considered 'dating' in the strick sense but I found a good way to get to know someone who you like is to spend time together, be that going for a walk or having a chat over a cup of tea. Definately those are moments when you can discover if a friend who might become more than that is of a similar mind and temperment.

Good luck with things, that special someone who'll you'll commit to for life might be right around the corner.

 

[Sanglyon]

You're a biggot, asking for "religious tolerance" for yourself, while saying, I quote,
"To all those who want to belittle me and/or my faith: feel free to step in front of a speeding car", and calling American girl "stuck up whore with no values".

This thread should be locked. There is no use talking to this kind of self-righteous zealot.

Edit: And feel free to report my post, that'll only comfort my point.

 

[DesiPrinceX09]

Good replies, I sincerely apologize for looking like an elitist with my stuck up whores comment. And I am not trying to say: "look at me I'm special because of my religion" either, since it's a label that society uses to identify me and no matter how hard I try I cannot escape it. I see a lot of suggestions for a Muslim version of e-harmony and of course marrying another Muslim. My sister is married to a white agnostic guy and while they have their troubles due to family clashes (conservative Christians vs liberal Muslims) but they get through it and love each other. But my sister likes lighter skinned guys so that's her taste and it's all good. I like girls with darker hair and skin (personal preference also) so I tend to lean more towards my ethnic groups. And I understand that my culture is very different (even TOO different) but does that mean I am fully incompatible with an American? I would argue no since first of all my dad is way more conservative than me and he married (and is still with) my mom who is a Mexican American and then there's my sister and many more examples.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Good replies, I sincerely apologize for looking like an elitist with my stuck up whores comment. And I am not trying to say: "look at me I'm special because of my religion" either, since it's a label that society uses to identify me and no matter how hard I try I cannot escape it. I see a lot of suggestions for a Muslim version of e-harmony and of course marrying another Muslim. My sister is married to a white agnostic guy and while they have their troubles due to family clashes (conservative Christians vs liberal Muslims) but they get through it and love each other. But my sister likes lighter skinned guys so that's her taste and it's all good. I like girls with darker hair and skin (personal preference also) so I tend to lean more towards my ethnic groups. And I understand that my culture is very different (even TOO different) but does that mean I am fully incompatible with an American? I would argue no since first of all my dad is way more conservative than me and he married (and is still with) my mom who is a Mexican American and then there's my sister and many more examples.

It's not so much that you're incompatible with Americans as it is your idea of dating and how to get to a marriage is incompatible with American views. You will be really hard pressed to find someone born and raised in America who will be willing to marry you without a lengthy Western style -- meaning it involves dating -- romance.

 

[DesiPrinceX09]

It's not so much that you're incompatible with Americans as it is your idea of dating and how to get to a marriage is incompatible with American views. You will be really hard pressed to find someone born and raised in America who will be willing to marry you without a lengthy Western style -- meaning it involves dating -- romance.

But what is so hard about just being friends and developing a relationship based on compatibility instead of intimate feelings? Why is that so weird? You could date a person for months and feel like you're a perfect match but then soon realize that you detest each other and are not compatible.