Religious Freedom

[DarthFennec]

I totally understand and completely agree, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that either. I don't think they should make any of you do that. If they're going to push it on you like that anyway, just don't go.

 

[MacGuges]

Tomorrow, my school is taking myself and a few dozen other students to a Jewish museum. I'm totally fine with this, and have no problem accepting other peoples views and opinions. However, my English teacher today told the class that we would be visiting a synagogue, and that every male visitor would have to wear a skullcap. I have no problem with their beliefs, but as soon as they try to make me join in, that's where I draw the line. I'm fine with waiting outside if that's what it takes, and so are most of my friends (the ones that are even bothering to attend, anyway), but I expect that the teachers are going to force us to go with it. I know I'm the visitor, and I'm expected to join in and such, but this is compulsory and I'm not a religious person and do not wish to participate in religious activities. It's against my beliefs.

Do you think I'm in the right here? Or do you think I should just 'man up' and deal with it?
Discuss?

It doesn't sound like they're asking you to change your beliefs, unless you believe that wearing a skullcap in a Jewish synagogue makes you a Jew.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2084871_be-respectful-visiting-jewish-synagogue.html

 

[A Weary Exile]

The way I look at it it's just a polite custom, like bowing as sign of respect if you were to visit Japan or not sitting with the soles of your shoes exposed in a Middle-Eastern country (<--Huge sign of disrespect) it's only temporary and it's not like they're forcing you to become a Jew.

 

[Ledan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

 

[photog212]

snip

Although I personally think you're being absurd (my opinion that nobody cares about), try looking at i this way: They have the courtesy to invite you and your classmates into their sacred space, the least you could do is honor a simple tradition. Think of it as wiping your feet before entering somebody's home. It doesn't mean you're joining their family, just respecting their hospitality.

 

[photog212]

It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

Doesn't have to. In fact the ones you'll be getting should be nothing but black.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

 

[justnotcricket]

I personally would just accept the tradition and wear it (except that I'm a girl, I guess), because I would like to visit a synagogue and see what it is like. However, if you're prepared to wait outside I think that's fine too. The only real problem would be if you disparaged their religion and demanded to be let in without the skullcap. But obviously that's not what you're doing, so you're fine. =)

 

[HardkorSB]

That's preposterous!
Next they will make you wipe your feet before you go in.
This cannot continue!

Most likley you won't need the hard hat in a "visitor" scenario

Actually, you're required to wear it as soon as you enter the site, no matter who you are.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

That's preposterous!
Next they will make you wipe your feet before you go in.
This cannot continue!

Most likley you won't need the hard hat in a "visitor" scenario

Actually, you're required to wear it as soon as you enter the site, no matter who you are.

Care to explain your opinion instead of the sarcasm?
And what I think he's saying is that if there were going to be visitors in a construction site, they would only be going to visit the places where it was safe enough to not have to wear one, but I see your point.

 

[MacGuges]

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

Exactly. This sounds like cultural education, not brainwashing.

I used to have more trouble with prayer at dinner with my mother, since I expected she was looking for any evidence that I was actually still Catholic. I was too nervous to deny her (it's still a sore subject) but I felt it was unethical to misrepresent myself. So I would simply bow my head in silence while my family said their prayers.

But TacticalAssassin1's teacher, I'm guessing, is not his Jewish mother and nobody would be confused afterwards about whether he's become a Jew since he wore a skullcap at their synagogue.

 

[Mr Thin]

I'm going off Wikipedia here, which says the kippah is worn by Jewish men to fulfill the requirement that their head be covered at all times. Sounds pretty religious to me.

If the course was optional, I'd say you shouldn't have said yes without being prepared to wear it.

If they allow you to wait outside, do so, no big deal.

But if this is a mandatory part of the course, then I think it's within your rights to refuse them.

I'm bothered by the number of people in this thread who think that you should do it because "it's just a hat, get over it".

It's not just a hat, and it's not just a custom; the physical nature of the item is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing. Wearing a kippah is a religious practice and he does not share that religion, therefore, he should not have to wear it.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

Ah but I have to go. To not do so would be disobeying the rules of my school. Those who don't want to increase their cultural awareness have chosen not to attend, and they will probably be punished unless they have a note from their parent/guardian. I respect their traditions. I do not want to be a part of them. There is a difference there.

 

[TheAbominableDan]

I understand where you're coming from.

However, could it really be that painful to respect the rules of the house as they were, and experience it just for those few hours?

I'm not religious, but I'd take my shoes off when going into a mosque as a sign of respect.

I do the same, but I think that there is a difference between taking of your shoes and putting on a symbol of a religion. Same difference as not making loud noises when people are praying in a church and refusing to participate in the prayer.

This. If they asked me to take my jumper off, I would (and let me tell you this, I NEVER take my jumper off). But it's an article of religion. It contains religious symbols. I'm just not ok with wearing it.

The ones provided for you in a synagogue contain no religious symbols. They're just plain black. At least they have been at every one at I've ever been to. Which I can guarantee is more than you have.

I stand corrected. And yes, it's true, I haven't been to many, but that's why I'm going to this one isn't it? to increase my awareness of other cultures.

Except you won't be going. Because although you want to be aware of the culture you don't want to respect their traditions.

Ah but I have to go. To not do so would be disobeying the rules of my school. Those who don't want to increase their cultural awareness have chosen not to attend, and they will probably be punished unless they have a note from their parent/guardian. I respect their traditions. I do not want to be a part of them. There is a difference there.

If you won't wear the kippah you won't be allowed in. So no, you won't be going.

 

[xdom125x]

l

Some people have opined that it's 'just a hat', but obviously the synagogue doesn't believe so,

The kippah is not a religious item. However it is Jewish tradition to keep your head to keep your head covered in a synagogue.

Isn't the skullcap worn to show respect for a god? If he doesn't believe in a deity, why would he do things out of respect for it.
Aren't the Jewish religion and tradition so mixed together that to say it is only tradition would be splitting hairs?

It's an incredibly youthful mindset to believe that acknowledging someone else's belief in god is bad for you if you're an atheist. You know what I do? I wish my Christian friends a merry Christmas. I don't acknowledge the existence of Jesus or the importance of the holiday. But if they do I really do hope they have a good holiday. It doesn't hurt me to do so, nor does it weaken my stance of non-affiliation with any religion.

I can acknowledge another person's religion as much/little as I want but I won't have another person's religious beliefs affect my non-belief in the slightest. If I was being forced to learn about a religion, I woudn't take on and practice those beliefs (wearing a yalmukka is definitely based in religion for example) regardless of where I am being taught about it. Oh, and I wish everyone the generic holiday greetings as well. And that is because I elect to do it, not because it is forced from me (plus the fact that plenty of holidays have been getting pretty damn secular/commerciaized these days anyway).

 

[Votix]

I would be fine with it as long as they don't make me say a pledge or make me pray. Otherwise, no...

Besides it is just a hat, not like they are trying to force anything upon you that is serious.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

I'm going off Wikipedia here, which says the kippah is worn by Jewish men to fulfill the requirement that their head be covered at all times. Sounds pretty religious to me.

If the course was optional, I'd say you shouldn't have said yes without being prepared to wear it.

If they allow you to wait outside, do so, no big deal.

But if this is a mandatory part of the course, then I think it's within your rights to refuse them.

I'm bothered by the number of people in this thread who think that you should do it because "it's just a hat, get over it".

It's not just a hat, and it's not just a custom; the physical nature of the item is irrelevant, it's the principle of the thing. Wearing a kippah is a religious practice and he does not share that religion, therefore, he should not have to wear it.

The course was English. Everybody does it. And yes, that's the reason I'm not so sure about wearing it. If they supply me with a normal hat, I guess I'll wear it because hey, it's just a hat. But wearing this is different.