Remake Retake
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Do you guys remember when EA remade Goldeneye?
That's what Erin is feeling right now. Trying to remake a beloved game with a different set of hands. Even if they had the original crew back in for the remake, my pessimism tells me that with the amount of hype out there, the FF7 fans are likely going to be set up for disappointment.
However, my optimism tells that as long as Motomu Toriyama doesn't touch it, we should expect an acceptable remake. I do not like that guy and his Lightning fetish - I do call him the Michael Bay of JRPGs for a reason.
That's what Erin is feeling right now. Trying to remake a beloved game with a different set of hands. Even if they had the original crew back in for the remake, my pessimism tells me that with the amount of hype out there, the FF7 fans are likely going to be set up for disappointment.
However, my optimism tells that as long as Motomu Toriyama doesn't touch it, we should expect an acceptable remake. I do not like that guy and his Lightning fetish - I do call him the Michael Bay of JRPGs for a reason.
My prediction is that unless they fuck up the combat so badly that I find the game unplayable(e.g. FFXIII) or scrap major plot points, I'll enjoy the result. Then again, I tend to be less harsh on these sorts of things than other fans. The original is not suddenly going to not exist anymore after they do this, and it will be interesting to see just how they go about the remake.
In a way, I'm really glad that they didn't do this back when the PS3 tech demo was put out there. I feel that the extra time between the original release and now will help me distance my perspective and let me just enjoy the result instead of endlessly nitpicking like I do when anime badly adapt their source material. It's the same reason I'm able to enjoy the Lord of the Rings movies.
In a way, I'm really glad that they didn't do this back when the PS3 tech demo was put out there. I feel that the extra time between the original release and now will help me distance my perspective and let me just enjoy the result instead of endlessly nitpicking like I do when anime badly adapt their source material. It's the same reason I'm able to enjoy the Lord of the Rings movies.
*Sigh* FFVII is like a thorn to Squeenix, people will ***** and moan about wanting a FFVII remake and when they actually get to do it, people will ***** and moan about the quality of the unreleased game. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.Rylee Fox said:
To me this feels like it is coming too late. I really enjoyed FF 7, it was the first JRPG I ever played, but it is pretty outdated now in terms of design. The combat system isn't great, not being able to take more than five steps without a random battle sucks, and we already know the story.
I feel like the late 2000's would have been the best time to do this kind of thing.
I feel like the late 2000's would have been the best time to do this kind of thing.
Eh... I was fairly underwhelmed by them, to the point that I'm still apprehensive about playing Bravely Default despite having heard nothing but good about it. Also, I just don't care for the look of the character models. They aren't bad, but something about them just irks me and makes me wish they'd simply stuck with 2D sprites.CaitSeith said:
Funny how, just for once, I'm not the one being cynical.
I hate XIII with the fury of a thousand suns. But you know, I really enjoyed XII. And XV is shaping up to look amazing. And the remakes they've made of I-IV are all pretty good. And Tetsuya Nomura is apparently directing the remake; he's really only got Kingdom Hearts behind him at the moment until XV comes out, but since I'm a massive fan of Kingdom Hearts that doesn't bother me as much as it might other people. So yeah, I'm permitting myself to be excited about this. VII isn't my favorite, anyway, though like many people it was the first RPG I really got to dig my teeth into.
But then, much like how people got sick of "grimdark" being the standard theme in media a few years back, I'm sick of "jaded cynicism" being the standard for the gaming community. (Bearing in mind that the only bit of E3 I even cared enough to watch this year was Sony's conference, and that was only because my best friend wanted to go check it out in the local theater because we never get big events like that around here.)
I hate XIII with the fury of a thousand suns. But you know, I really enjoyed XII. And XV is shaping up to look amazing. And the remakes they've made of I-IV are all pretty good. And Tetsuya Nomura is apparently directing the remake; he's really only got Kingdom Hearts behind him at the moment until XV comes out, but since I'm a massive fan of Kingdom Hearts that doesn't bother me as much as it might other people. So yeah, I'm permitting myself to be excited about this. VII isn't my favorite, anyway, though like many people it was the first RPG I really got to dig my teeth into.
But then, much like how people got sick of "grimdark" being the standard theme in media a few years back, I'm sick of "jaded cynicism" being the standard for the gaming community. (Bearing in mind that the only bit of E3 I even cared enough to watch this year was Sony's conference, and that was only because my best friend wanted to go check it out in the local theater because we never get big events like that around here.)
I actually think 12 was the best game in the series.LordLundar said:
7 wasn't bad, its story was quite captivating, but the writing was ruined by terrible translation and the graphics were jarring enough to give you an aneurism. And the combat system got very boring, very quickly. I can't say I'm very excited about the remake.
Same here. I very much enjoyed how much it wasn't like other FF games. Great open world, no random encounters, fun gambit system, side quests that weren't complete arse, decent music and the only piece of media I know that could successfully pull off 'ye olde Englishe'. Also: Balthier, Reddas and Al Cid.Vahir said:
I really don't understand people who complain that the Squeenix merger was only a bad thing. The FF formula seemed to be growing rather stale as it was.
I love hearing people bash on Enix, as if they weren't a company that produced several solid games before they merged with Squaresoft, and how everyone forgets the garbage that came out of Squaresoft beforehand, because the only thing people remember about Squaresoft is Final Fantasy, which is a name the company has been abusing for years to sell products that few people would have bought into otherwise.
FFVII was a good game that was made worse by all of the spin-off nonsense Square used to milk the franchise; spin-offs that turned the protagonist from mercenary who was a loner, but also a determined smart-ass, into a mopey weirdo who is completely different than he was in the game. MY worry is that this will be incorporated into this Remake. It's a chance for them to make the game better, but it's also a chance for them to fuck it up even worse.
Still, should be hilarious to hear Steve Burton try to sound like a woman for the Sector Six segment.
FFVII was a good game that was made worse by all of the spin-off nonsense Square used to milk the franchise; spin-offs that turned the protagonist from mercenary who was a loner, but also a determined smart-ass, into a mopey weirdo who is completely different than he was in the game. MY worry is that this will be incorporated into this Remake. It's a chance for them to make the game better, but it's also a chance for them to fuck it up even worse.
Still, should be hilarious to hear Steve Burton try to sound like a woman for the Sector Six segment.
They kind of already tried that. It wasn't pretty. Or maybe it was. Chrono Cross's plot is kind of hard to grok.Redlin5 said:
Yeeaahhh.. Much as I loved VII and even bought the PS1 download of it from PSN when that was released... In it's current state I can't see Squenix not making some horrible alteration or two to the gameplay and thus cocking the whole thing up. I'd like to be wrong here but that might be too optimistic even for me.
This may be the only thing you and I shall ever agree on... I shall savor it.MarsAtlas said:
The game is slow moving by today standards and some of the things it pioneered were so repeated that playing it today feels a bit formulaic (but it wasn't at the time);Xsjadoblayde said:
It also had great graphics at the time and (also for the time) incredible cut scenes;
What is not dated is the interesting upgrade system, Tiffa, the fantastic score and the one plot twist that companies do not have the guts to do anymore.
It is still a charming experience if you like your traditional naive, overwritten, full of teen-angst JRPG story and very satisfying in terms of gameplay after you spend some time upgrading and getting some awesome materia.
What I find interesting is that, word by word, any Bioware game is better written than FF7, but I think FF7 pulls the heartstrings much more efficiently with its mix of innocence and evil craziness.
See, that's a bit missleading, cause you are going just by compnay names. The truth is hidden in the details however. The people who made squaresoft, who made Final Fantasy the series it was and brought us FF7 are all gone. The abandoned the sinking ship after the merger with Enix and are off making their own games now. So even if Squenix has half the name of Squaresoft in it, it has none of the original creative minds that made squaresoft and brought us FF. In essence, this remake comes to you not from the people who first made and understand it, but from the retards that brought you Lighting Returns. Now you see why people might have the above reaction?Darth_Payn said:
On topic: Honest to god, why people have been clamoring for a FF7 remake after every single original developer and creator behind FF left the company is beyond me ... I guess I'm the only one who doesn't think Squaresoft but Hironobu Sakaguchi when i think final fantasy? As for this pathtic atempt at a cash grab ... urgh just no ... no. I can allready see the emo seeping through my monitor, the shrill totaly retarded voices they will use, the angst flowing like rivers and Vincent probably moving from optional party member to a more important role in the script. I can allready see all the "supa serious" faces and tones and the brooding taking over what once made fun of itself just as much as it tried beeing serious, with the jokes that made the game bearable and Cloud's angstier moments pass quicker going the way of the dodo. And for god's sake drop the VA crap please ... I'm one of the guys who paradoxicaly liked Yumi, but years of anime have taught me that Japan is to retarded to give that type of character a proper voice one that doesn't sound like a million cats scratching a blackboard.
AT best, at the absolute fucking best it's a facelifted copy of FF7 with passable to retarded voice-work added in. But let's face it, we all know the "geniuses" at square would have none of that, they have a vision to delvier us ... the vision that demanded 3 games focused on Lighting, which btw, was ment to be a female version of Cloud. Lighting is how these guys think Cloud's character works ... let that sink in for a second folks. So no, FF7 remake? No, no, NO! I'll always have pcsx, I can allways emulate the original and that is all anyone needs.
Edit: here's a fascinating lecture on the history of FF and why people are might have this reaction at this remake. It stops at 13, and I do not blame the guy ... 13 was the death of FF for a lot of people. http://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=patff Enjoy the read
I started FF with the old ones that came over the pond on the NES, but FF12 is by far my favorite. The big picture is FF12 is not so much a "theme park" game as an "open world" game; it allows a lot of room for player expression, but doesn't lead the player on so much. (Ideally, the leading would be optional, but that's more work and nobody does it.)Alex Baas said:
Consider this statement about FF7:
In FF12, you "program" all but one member of the party ahead of time, and then play that one member in realtime. Usually, you specifically "program" the others to support a player character - for example, have the DPSers attack the most-wounded enemy, or attack the enemy that damaged you. Then you can wander out in the wild without them starting fights, and once you lay some damage on an enemy or vice versa, the party kicks into gear. It takes a lot of time to get the gambits right... and you'll do a lot of tweaking as you get new gambits... but once you do, your party will be a well-oiled machine. This is part of why the game is "so long", you're supposed to hit your stride quite a ways into it.
Also, FF tends to have either a restrictive job system, or a class-switching job system. FF12 is closer to the feel of a point-buy system; you can customize everybody's abilities, including sending anybody or everybody on a beeline for something odd. Want a team of buff/debuffers with you doing the damage? Go for it, and you'll have a decent party along the way.
Also, this:
This:
However, there are a couple big drawbacks.
First, the story is weak. I'm a "skip the story, play the game" girl, and FF12 caters to that. If you responded to Aeris's death not with sadness, but with a confused "we have enough phoenix downs to stuff a pillow, why are you pretending this is dramatic", FF12's story will stay out of your way. It's a string of fun things to do, but Campbell it ain't.
Second, the gambit implementation lacks replay value. Once you've gotten through the game once, what was a great thing about the game becomes a serious drawback. When you start the game, you have very few gambit slots on each character, and very few gambits to put in them. You'll know what to put there, and even if you're trying out a new "class" and don't need to gambit a black mage this time, every other party member will be dumber than you know you could make them. For this reason, if you start over, it may be better to play on an emulator, so you can hack all the gambits and some extra gambit slots.
At the time, FF7 was trying hard to be realtime, not turnbased, and at that they kinda failed - but it is a culmination of turnbased. FF12 continues on from those attempts at real-time, and for me the gambit system in FF12 was the perfect delivery on it.Fox12 said:
In FF12, you "program" all but one member of the party ahead of time, and then play that one member in realtime. Usually, you specifically "program" the others to support a player character - for example, have the DPSers attack the most-wounded enemy, or attack the enemy that damaged you. Then you can wander out in the wild without them starting fights, and once you lay some damage on an enemy or vice versa, the party kicks into gear. It takes a lot of time to get the gambits right... and you'll do a lot of tweaking as you get new gambits... but once you do, your party will be a well-oiled machine. This is part of why the game is "so long", you're supposed to hit your stride quite a ways into it.
Also, FF tends to have either a restrictive job system, or a class-switching job system. FF12 is closer to the feel of a point-buy system; you can customize everybody's abilities, including sending anybody or everybody on a beeline for something odd. Want a team of buff/debuffers with you doing the damage? Go for it, and you'll have a decent party along the way.
Also, this:
is selling it a bit short. Random encounters are a simplified model, which takes agency away as a side effect. FF12 has the thing random encounters are a model of, wandering monsters. There are actually a bunch of monsters wandering around out there. If you don't want to put the effort in, you can just walk, and enemies will attack sometimes, and your party will respond. But except for "set piece" enemies, you can actually sneak your party around aggro enemies, through effort and thought. It responds to mastery, instead of just being random.GundamSentinel said:
This:
I would put well above "weren't complete arse". I'm very self-directed, and FF12 responds very well to that; if I decide I want to join the monster hunter's guild and become great at it, or whatever, the game will still try hard to entertain me, instead of dangling a main-plot-relevant payoff at the end of the sidequest chain.GundamSentinel said:
However, there are a couple big drawbacks.
First, the story is weak. I'm a "skip the story, play the game" girl, and FF12 caters to that. If you responded to Aeris's death not with sadness, but with a confused "we have enough phoenix downs to stuff a pillow, why are you pretending this is dramatic", FF12's story will stay out of your way. It's a string of fun things to do, but Campbell it ain't.
Second, the gambit implementation lacks replay value. Once you've gotten through the game once, what was a great thing about the game becomes a serious drawback. When you start the game, you have very few gambit slots on each character, and very few gambits to put in them. You'll know what to put there, and even if you're trying out a new "class" and don't need to gambit a black mage this time, every other party member will be dumber than you know you could make them. For this reason, if you start over, it may be better to play on an emulator, so you can hack all the gambits and some extra gambit slots.
It could be said that "Final Fantasy VII" is what made the whole angst-ridden hero thing cool as it was one of the first games to really do it, and it did it very, very, well. It can be argued that a lot of the games that make up the increasingly mock-worthy stereotype are all trying to recapture the "magic" of "Final Fantasy VII" and it's rather un-traditional (for the time) protagonist. That said every attempt to really expand on FF VII except maybe "Advent Children" was kind of a failure.Xsjadoblayde said:
*Spoilers Below*
The basic storyline is about this guy called Cloud who is supposed to be a renegade member of an elite military organization working for an evil corporation that is literally sucking life force out of the planet to power machinery and causing all kinds of problems. He winds up hiring on as a mercenary with a terrorist organization run in part by his ex-girlfriend that is dedicated to fighting his old bosses. As the story unfolds you find out that Cloud wound up having a clash with the former leader of this corporate military organization before he left, and believes he killed him, preventing him from doing some rather nasty things.
The "twist" to this is that it's mostly a lie. Cloud is a kid who admired his "girlfriend" from afar even though she liked him, and ran off join the military organization in hopes of becoming someone and impressing her. In doing so he was never a member of the elite corps, he was kind of a failure, a foot soldier, he did however wind up being one of the peons assigned to assist said evil military commander during his experiments. Cloud's entire persona is something he's copying from another guy who actually did wind up becoming a heroic renegade named "Zack" (who is also the lost love interest of Cloud's other girl Aeris). Pretty much everything Cloud thinks he is, is a lie, and it wind up almost shattering him. Of course one thing about Cloud is that since he really is clobbering world class enemies you might suspect he's a little too tough for that to be all there is to it. Eventually you find out that Zack, the guy he idolized tried to fight the evil enemy commander and failed, however that same guy wound up totally underestimating Cloud who actually did kill him (in a rather epic moment where he gets run through from behind, but still manages to grab the bad guy and heave him into a Jenova reactor). Badly injured he escapes with what's left of Zack and winds up being captured and experimented on, infused with Jenova cells that make him superhuman on top of being a truly brutal fighter. While recovering after infusion Zack winds up dying leading soldiers away from Cloud. The sword Cloud is carrying is actually Zack's sword.
Needless to say it's fairly complicated and this is just part of the entire arc. The whole gist of it is that Cloud winds up being a competent but fairly stoic mercenary, who realizes everything he thinks he is, is a giant lie, and one he arguably told himself more than real brainwashing. This doesn't change the fact that he's crazy powerful though and he winds up having to regain his confidence and realize he actually is "all that" without needing a lie behind it. So yes this does lead to some really angst-ridden storytelling at parts, combined with bombastic high adventure. Basically that commander (the infamous Sepiroth) is easily the most powerful warrior to ever exist in that world, having defeated everyone else that has stood against him... except Cloud, when Cloud wasn't even enhanced. So yeah there are moments in the second act where your probably going "get over it already, you freaking split 40' snakes in half lengthwise with a sword" but overall the entire character arc in this central story is pretty well done and very personal.
The big reason why I question Squeenix's ability to do "Final Fantasy VII" is that I'm not even sure if they "get" their own story at times. For example they have done a lot of "Final Fantasy VII" prequels where you have Cloud around as a nobody while the focus is on Zack, and they make the whole thing he did to Sepiroth dumb luck more than anything. Something which sort of undermines the entire point of the character and the way the story went from "here is what really happened" (he really kind of sucked) to "here is actually what really happened" (he's really kind of unbelievably badass) in one of the more triumphant moments in the series. If Cloud was just the goober you see in some of the prequels it's not likely he would have recovered the way he did, nor would Sepiroth have the weird obsession with him you see at times during the series (the one man to ever truly defeat him).
"Advent Children" was pretty much the same story again as a sequel where Cloud has become depressed, bad things happen, and eventually he needs to get his head together again to get his hero mojo working. As a movie it did tie up a few details though and put an end to his angst over letting Aeris die as he got to see her happy with Zack in the afterlife so he could be with Tifa. Some of the more amazing fights I've seen animated, especially towards the finale, and the amusing part for fans is that when Cloud is fighting at the end the bad guys supposedly have all of his Materia so he's doing all the stuff without his full array of powers, which sort of says what level of fighter he is supposed to be all on his own (albeit he is still Jenova enhanced).
The original FF7 isn't going anywhere, so it isn't going to be ruined.
I'll take a bad FF7 remake over any new FF game the way things are going. Just don't get yourselves hyped up too much. If it's even a little bit good it's still a win. If it sucks, just relish in the idea that it couldn't be worse than what they would have made instead.
I'll take a bad FF7 remake over any new FF game the way things are going. Just don't get yourselves hyped up too much. If it's even a little bit good it's still a win. If it sucks, just relish in the idea that it couldn't be worse than what they would have made instead.
