Report: Only 30 Percent of Marvel/DC Characters Female

[blackrave]

And this is problem how exactly?

Ok, let's assume that ~50% of DC/Marvel customers are women.
Is it really reason to start gender flipping characters?
Maybe, just maybe, some of these women started reading comic because comics are like they currently are?

Let me give my anecdotal example.
I regularly read Spinnerette.
And I assume there are a lot of men reading that web-comic.
If this ever started to influence author and he started to change comic to tailor it my demographic stereotype preferences I would be pissed and most probably stopped reading it.
I like it BECAUSE it is like it is and because author does what he does.

Basically if something works you DON'T FUCK IT UP.

Captcha: the big easy
Yeah, damn right captcha, it is.

 

[blackrave]

And this is problem how exactly?

Ok, let's assume that ~50% of DC/Marvel customers are women.
Is it really reason to start gender flipping characters?
Maybe, just maybe, some of these women started reading comic because comics are like they currently are?

Let me give my anecdotal example.
I regularly read Spinnerette.
And I assume there are a lot of men reading that web-comic.
If this ever started to influence author and he started to change comic to tailor it my demographic stereotype preferences I would be pissed and most probably stopped reading it.
I like it BECAUSE it is like it is and because author does what he does.

Basically is something works you DON'T FUCK IT UP.

Captcha: the big easy
Yeah, damn right captcha.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible attitude in my opinion.

Videogames sell millions of copies. Videogames have a sexism problem too, as we all know since we're discussing it a lot. We shouldn't represent female videogame characters as nothing else than fanservice, because videogames sell well anyway?

We shouldn't represent female heroines as nothing more than what the Hawkeye Initiative shows us, because comics sell anyway?

Actually... yeah.

Your current fans like your work because you do what you do.
Trying to shove some sort of quota will mess with that.

And like I said previously

If something works you DON'T FUCK IT UP.

If something stops working THEN you should change things to make them work again.
When you run large company changing things to change things is potential risk to profit.
Same is following questionable social justice agenda.
Profit is only thing that matters at the end of the day.

 

[maninahat]

So?

I'd rather have 30% of charaters being male/female and the authors of the books making them male/female because they wanted to make the character that way rather than it being 50/50 and authors being denied creative freedom with their character for the sake of political correctness.

I'd like to think there were more than just those two options. No one is asking for a HR person to accompany comic book writers, poised to slap the pens out of their hands whenever they try to write another male character.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

I don't really think "Number of Female Protagonists" translates to "Number of Comics for Girls."

I mean Playboy must really be making a killing off the female demographic with all their female leads.

If anything, I'm surprised there isn't more female superheroes to target the same white male demographic. I'm a guy and some of my favorite heroes are girls and I would like more girl superheroes too. But that doesn't change the issue of how comics are geared towards guys.

I appreciate the update, but I feel like the article puts an unnecessary spin on it.

 

[Saetha]

You know, I don't think people realize just how small the comic book industry in the US actually is. Despite the success of movies and tv series from the big two, the whole US comic book industry in the US only brings in about 600-700 million in revenue each year, or about what a single one of their blockbusters does, and that's split 3 ways between Marvel, DC and everyone else. Gimmicks like turning Thor into a woman for no discernible reason are poor attempts to increase sales numbers by getting people who wouldn't otherwise read comic books to do so (though sales numbers for most which have had gimmicks like this make me certain that the story will be canned within the next 6 months).

This is actually something that really pisses me off - the small industry thing you mentioned. I think it's painfully stupid that, as far as I can see, the comic industry has done basically nothing to try and get "fresh blood," so to speak, in their fan base. For instance, I think comic books are pretty neat. I'd love to get into them, but there's one small problem - where do I start? What are the best books? Where can I find them? Why do I never hear about them? Why is that, if not for the non-comic book properties the comic industry produces, I basically wouldn't even know they exist?

I mean, hell, maybe your fanbase is dwindling because you're basically not putting any effort into maintaining it? Maybe you'd pull in bigger numbers if you, y'know, bothered to do some advertising and actually got your books on the shelves? Trumpeting Lady Thor's existence from the rooftops was a step in the right direction (Though I still say it's pretty sexist to use a character's gender as a selling point) but it's still not much. If I wanted to get into video games today, it'd be ridiculously easy. They've got web ads, youtube pre-rolls, even some commercials on TV. I realize the comic industry maybe can't advertise to that scale (And that maybe video games go a bit overboard in their advertising) but it's still piss easy for me to know where to start. I'm looking at an ad for The Evil Within right now! And I could probably walk down to Wal-Mart and swipe it off the shelf, if I wanted to.

Hell, this is something webcomics understand. I'd have never heard of Hanna is Not a Boy's Name if I hadn't seen the ads on Deviant Art. I would have never known shit about Namesake if they hadn't plastered my Tumblr in sponsored posts. (The fact that I would've been happier never knowing shit about Namesake aside) But I cannot ever recall seeing an ad for a published comic book series. The closest I've ever seen is the blurb at the end of The Wolf Among Us, and what do you know, that blurb got me interested in Fables.

There's just no guidance or direction. You could have the most diverse cast of characters ever, and it wouldn't matter because no one would know they're there.

//end rant

 

[Mister K]

Because a) I made an assumption based on my own experience and, after reading posts here b) came to certain conclussion based on the info given and c) I am not saying that I was correct, although I WILL say that I'd really like more leading ladies and femanizing Thor and blackening Spider Man because Marvel is too lazy/affraid to create someone new seems like a cheap bullshit to me.

EDIT: I am in complete agreement with people here, who say it is better to make smaller cast of well-made female characters, then create 100 forgetable "chicks".

Since you admitted you already don't know what you're talking about, none of those really seems to matter.

You're not saying this is happening, you're just ranting about it as though it's happening and ascribing motives to people with no information.

That's absurd.

Well, yeah? As I said I made an assumption based on what I read and on my own personal experience. Never did I say that this was the ultimate truth, didn't I?
Oh, and by the way, saying that mine (or anyone elses, for that matter) opinion "does not matter" is not not only hurtful, but is also laughable, because in the end yours doesn't too. This an internet forum. No mmatter the comment, it won't change anything, ever. Yet you seem to think, according to your reply, that yours SOMEHOW actually matters, my dearest special special snowflake. And you even DARE to tell people that their thought do not matter, that THEY do not matter.

Well hon, THIS is actually offensive. I was called many things (this IS the internet, is it not?), but for someone to say such a thing to me? Happened for the very 1st time.
Oh, and if my opinion, my thoughts, my execution of right for freedom of speech, does not matter, then why did you not ignore it? It did not matter right? You could've skipped it, yet you did not. Matters for you, doesn't it?

P.S. The only thing that ACTUALLY matters in the end is money, i.e. whether you'll buy a certain comic book or not, so, yeah, in the end you are right, non of this matters, neither your comment, nor mine.

 

[cleric of the order]

Report: Only 30 Percent of Marvel/DC Characters Female

Despite efforts to balance the scales, Marvel and DC still focus primarily on creating male comic characters.

One of the blatant paradoxes of many a human society is the fact that women make up 50 percent of the population, but are often treated as a minority. In fewer places is this clearer than in the world of <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/comics%20and%20cosplay>comic books where the status quo has long been one tailored toward individuals possessing a Y chromosome. It's something that major comic makers like <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/marvel>Marvel and DC have been trying to reverse in recent years, with some success. That being the case, recent reports on the state of female characters in comics would indicate that there's still a long way to go.

The report, which was recently published but the media site FiveThirtyEight, found that among DC and Marvel's current line-ups, only around one out of every four characters is a woman. More precisely female characters only represent around 30 percent of either company's overall cast, with <a href-http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/dc%20comics>DC Comics claiming a slight lead over Marvel owing, in part, to its early willingness to create female counterparts to its male leads.

The roots of this uneven division are, in turn, likely grounded in what comic companies perceive to be their primary audience: white men. And while this might be true to some degree, there's also some indication that things remain this way simply because comic makers don't create products with appeal for anyone else. In addition to the fact that most of the people working in comics are men, there's a belief among some that they've narrowed their sights on a shrinking demographic of white male readers. "Over time, we started to appeal to the same, dwindling fans," said Thor-writer Jason Aaron.

A possible side effect of this narrowly focused creative process however, could be the passing up of potential profits from other corners. Speaking in the report, Aaron cited the success of Marvel's Ms. Marvel, especially in digital formats. "That book has great digital sales," he said Clearly it's reaching an audience we haven't been reaching before through our longstanding distribution system." Fronted by a female Muslim Pakistani heroine, Ms. Marvel's creator G. Willow Wilson expected the book to die less than a year after its release. The wider availability offered by things like digital distribution however have helped it to build a strong fan following that's helped it to be a repeat top seller for Marvel.

Sadly, despite the success of properties like Ms. Marvel, big name brands are still playing things fairly safe when it comes to the creation of new books and characters. Even in the past few years female characters only made up around 30 percent of new superheroes introduced by Marvel and DC. One can only hope that things like the introduction of <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/136159-Thor-Is-Getting-Gender-Flipped-Officially>a lady Thor, the continued success of Ms. Marvel and the introduction of various <a href=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138002-Marvel-Announces-Gamora-Comic-for-Spring-2015>solo series will eventually help tip the tide toward a more balanced comics market.

Source: FiveThirtyEight


Permalink

People will create what they want to create I don't see a problem with that. To point if there is a majority of male characters and comic book writers then I suppose it would be better to write what you know. At this point in time i don't see any need to have completely equal numbers on both sides and forcing the Issue often makes people turn out un artistic trip. As it stand I would rather a small number of WELL WRITTEN female characters then a large number poorly written and often vaguely sexual charterers but then this is why i don't buy a lot of marvel or DC books. I prefer image and the indie comic book scene.
Let me just leave you with this, numbers are numbers but good work is something completely different

 

[blackrave]

Let me put it this way.

The world functioned perfectly fine when slavery was a thing. In fact, one might say it was economically better than now. Removing slavery made things economically worse.

So why the heck did we remove slavery, since it's not like things weren't working well back then?

1)Generational overt slavery stopped working with technological advancement.

2)Let me burst your bubble- slavery still exist.
It just changed its form.
Instead of generational slavery we have economical slavery now.

Oh, and for centuries, women had no right to vote. Yet, things were going just fine, no problem at all. So why the heck did we even bother giving women the right to vote, if voting was working fine as it was before?

Let me burst yet another bubble
During history 99% of people of our civilization had no such right.
Why? Because for most time political system was monarchy.
And under monarchy only those with power could influence political decisions.

And when it comes to antique democracies they were similar
Only those with power (military or financial) could vote
Those rare cases when someone without power could vote was short-lived, because next generation of said family members either regained power or lost votes.
In 99.9% cases those were males indeed.
But no, it wasn't because Patriarchy[sup]TM[/sup], but because objective reasons like physical strength or the fact men were not busy with pregnancies (necessary evil to keep our species from dying off, due to diseases and famines)

And when it came to our current voting system women gained ability to vote shortly after men (at least in most of Europe, I'm not familiar with US political history well enough to comment on it)

This is the same exact thing. Comics sell well as it is now. So why should we bother removing sexism? It's a pointless hassle.

Yes it is.
Goal of every company is to make profit, not to make SJWs happy.

Also- sexism will exist for as long as we will remain dimorphic species.
All we can realistically achieve is to go from severe sexism to light sexism.
And 30% seems quite light to me.

 

[kilenem]

But more importantly, what's the percentage of Marvel & DC characters who identify as female?

That isn't a good argument because the Teen titans Cartoon had a larger female viewer ship then the comics because it was better at portraying women. Like Terra sleeps with slate in the comics. If you make better Female charterers more women will read it.

It was also on TV with a wider audience than the comics ever reach. It has everything to do with TV vs Comics rather than anything to do with the the subject material at hand.

That's true but with any tv show based on source material people will go and check the source material.

 

[blackrave]

Oh boy, you did it, you use the acronym "SJW". Eeeww.

Yeah, sorry, I know it's blanket term, but sometimes it is much easier to say blanket term than to spend paragraph to explain who I actually mean. Yeah, I'm lazy like that.

So you're telling me that since slavery and sexism still exists even if in a minor way than in the past, we should not strive for change? I'm so glad most people do not think the way you do, because otherwise I bet I still wouldn't have the right to vote or to be independent.

Stop putting meaning in my words that wasn't there.
I just objected your previous post about slavery and "centuries of votes".
And explained why these claims were bollocks.
Nothing more.

You're also telling me sexism is totally unavoidable, so tough luck, chum? You know, I don't even know how to reply to that. Except that maybe, just maaaybe, there's a difference between "sexy" and "sexism". As a bi-gendered sexual species it's natural to be attracted to sexy things. It is NOT natural and it is a cultural horror to be attracted to sexism.

One thing leads to another. Inevitably.

And you're also telling me there's no way to have profit AND respect for women in a product? It's either one thing or the other? Comics won't make a profit unless they target only the straight male audience?
You know... again, I don't know how to reply to that. I'm just speechless.

No sometimes you can combine those things, but when things will go bad, blame yourself for that.
And I will restate this again- when you run large company you don't mess up with working formula.
It might give good results, but it also might end up badly- this is pretty much gamble.
And you DON'T GAMBLE with steady profit. NEVER.
How hard to understand this?

On the other hand, if you point towards factual information that comic industry is losing profit, then I would agree that change is needed.
Otherwise you don't have any chance of convincing me that changes should be made.

 

[Guerilla]

Oh no, the horror. Quick SJWs whine about it because we have to force everything to be completely equal even though the genders are very different and specialize in very different things. Next up: Why are nurses and teachers usually women? SEXIST!

 

[blackrave]

snip

How about we drop this conversation?
Because at this point it seems that we are going to dance around each other and punch shadows.
We simply don't understand each other.

And yes, I'm rather cynical, it comes with accepting our species.

 

[blackrave]

snip

How about we drop this conversation?
Because at this point it seems that we are going to dance around each other and punch shadows.
We simply don't understand each other.

And yes, I'm rather cynical, it comes with accepting our species.

So you're implying that the to understand humanity is to be cynical? Heads up: YOU are a human being. If you're cynical it says a lot more about what you think about yourself than about others.

Sort of.
Cynicism comes when you truly understand how messed up our species is.
And the worst part that this messed up nature served us well in this world.
Also, I never excluded myself from our species.
And that makes everything even worse :/
At least from my point of view.