Reporting benefit fraud

[SenseOfTumour]

As far as I can see, he is mentally ill, and an alcoholic, so at least in the UK, he'd get some form of benefits still, while the state and his doctor would try to help him get himself sorted out.

From that point of view, you're doing him even more good by reporting him, and barring him, well it won't stop him drinking, but if your bar is his favourite, it may make him cut down some, and even if not, you can feel safe that you did what you could to help him, despite him doing all he could to make you not want to.

You've done nothing wrong, and I don't feel taking that step would be wrong either, I feel you're stuck with the option of doing him some good, but knowing it'll be hard on him.

Again, it is from the UK perspective, but there's a form of welfare in most countries is there not? Surely he'd be able to get some short term help at least.

 

[Molikroth]

Phantom2595 - If everyone started thinking like me, society wouldn't exist in its current state. Now explain why that's a bad thing.

EDIT: Nilcypher - I disapprove of all involuntary taxation. I don't like children and couldn't care less if they grow up without an education. I don't care if some guy in a wheelchair can't get into his home without a private elevator, and so on. Why should I pay for any of these things?

 

[jim_doki]

Phantom2595 - If everyone started thinking like me, society wouldn't exist in its current state. Now explain why that's a bad thing.

i got a better plan. lets not start a flame war here.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Well, another thing I wish to know, is his liver disease terminal and incurable?

Well, I'm only going on what he's told me, but if he stopped drinking, he could be okay. But he's unwilling to do so. He is drinking less though. To give some background, though, he lacks social skills, he smells bad, he'll offend people without realizing he's doing it. Now, a rational person would take a bath and try to be less offensive, but he's delusional. The barmaid who he tried to kiss, he's written her love notes, despite her having told him that she has a boyfriend, and those notes, they're sad. He seems like someone who was a moderately intelligent person once; but the alcohol has left him boring and unpleasant. And I suppose that's where my dilemma lies.

Wow, he reminds me of a situation in my school. Lets call the 3 people in this situation B, M, and E. M is a girl, the others are guys. M and E are close friends, nothing romantic. The both vaguely know B. However, it has come to mine and E's attention that B likes M. Like, a lot. Like, obsessed. We know he has no chance with her for several reasons, not the least of which that she barely knows him. One day, B goes up to M and tells her things like "I love you" and "I would die for you" and other equally creepy stuff(at least from an acquaintance). She puts him down gently. About a week later, E comments to B "Oh, you still go to this school?" as a joke because he hadn't seen him in a while. B tries to start a fight with E. Did I mention that E is a blackbelt in some martial art or another? Anyway, B's like "I didn't kill you before because that would have made M unhappy, but I can now." E feels bad for him, and doesn't want to kick his ass, so he talks his way out. Yesterday, last I talked to her, M had just gotten a gift from B, and hadn't opened it. Interesting, the kind of shit that can happen in my school.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Phantom2595 - If everyone started thinking like me, society wouldn't exist in its current state. Now explain why that's a bad thing.

EDIT: Nilcypher - I disapprove of all involuntary taxation. I don't like children and couldn't care less if they grow up without an education. I don't care if some guy in a wheelchair can't get into his home without a private elevator, and so on. Why should I pay for any of these things?

Here's what confuses me. You disagree with taxation because you don't see why you should have to give money to other people, but you've already said you don't work and you're only 18, so I'm assuming that you're still living with your parents.

Aren't they paying for everything for you? How can you espouse this 'every man for himself' philosophy, when you yourself are having your way paid for you by someone else?

The only other scenario I can think of is that you're actually homeless and using the internet access in a library or you're begging for change and using an internet café with some very odd opening hours. But that brings us back to the same issue, someone else is paying for you to live.

I'm sure you can see my confusion.

 

[hypothetical fact]

Report him immediately; his liver disease, alcoholism, tax fraud, sexual harrasment and generally unpleasant behaviour are all his own fualt so make him pay for his own decisions.

Oh and anyone that thinks that they shouldn't pay taxes at least try to understand that without taxes the government can't function and without a government the world will turn into mad max.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm the other way, I do believe we should pay a certain amount in taxes to keep the people on the bottom rung at least fed, clothed, housed, and healthy.

You never know when you could get hit by a truck and be crippled and unable to work, or something happens that shatters your mind and leaves you virtually housebound, just because you don't need something now, doesn't mean everything's perfect forever, Government and taxes are just an enforced insurance policy, giving you some protection if it all goes wrong.

Sure we all think the Government are doing it wrong, and could do better with less money, but they're what we have, and its better than no system.

I still say report him, if he's pulling in the kinda cash you're talking about, he's using it to kill himself and he's screwing the system, which will cater for him honestly.

 

[Molikroth]

Nilcypher - I live alone, thanks to "housing benefit". It pays my rent for me as long as I'm in receipt of another benefit, i.e. Income Support or Jobseeker's Allowance.

If the government is stupid enough to offer these things, I'm going to accept it. If the government didn't offer these things, I'd live illegally (i.e. working and not reporting income) for as long as I could get away with it, then end up in a similar situation to my current one - living for free on the taxpayer's money, just in a smaller room with less freedom to choose my own meals.

This is why I refuse to work. I disapprove of prison, and of the very benefits I'm living off right now. That's not to say I couldn't get by just fine if the government stopped these silly bleeding-heart handouts.

 

[jim_doki]

Nilcypher - I live alone, thanks to "housing benefit". It pays my rent for me as long as I'm in receipt of another benefit, i.e. Income Support or Jobseeker's Allowance.

If the government is stupid enough to offer these things, I'm going to accept it. If the government didn't offer these things, I'd live illegally (i.e. working and not reporting income) for as long as I could get away with it, then end up in a similar situation to my current one - living for free on the taxpayer's money, just in a smaller room with less freedom to choose my own meals.

This is why I refuse to work. I disapprove of prison, and of the very benefits I'm living off right now. That's not to say I couldn't get by just fine if the government stopped these silly bleeding-heart handouts.

1) picking fights with a mod is hardly a great way to get ahead here

b) why cant you get a job and pay rent, therefore stopping your need for the income?

 

[Molikroth]

1) picking fights with a mod is hardly a great way to get ahead here

b) why cant you get a job and pay rent, therefore stopping your need for the income?

Jim - go the hell away. There's a difference between discussing something and "picking a fight" or a "flame war".

For future reference, "2" follows "1" in most systems of counting.

I could get a job and pay rent - I'd like to do so. However, getting a job would mean the government would skim off my earnings. If I earn £5 an hour and tax comes to £50 a month off my total wages, ten hours a month, of MY life, are going into things like orphanages and prisons - things I disapprove of.

 

[jim_doki]

1) so, you dissaprove of working for a living because people who work for a living pay for things people need while you just sit back and collect money from people who work for a living? im very confused.

b) i refute your system of counting and substitute my own

3) why do you object to prisons and orphanages?

 

[Molikroth]

I don't disapprove of working for a living. I disapprove of the government robbing you of whatever it feels like. As I said, I dislike children. It gives me a kick to think of your future children suffering thanks to my wasteful ways today. Why, then, should part of my income fund things like recycling to preserve resources for them? Note, that's an example. There are many, many more things taxes go toward that I disapprove of.

My objection to prisons is that I don't consider anyone to have the right to say "murder/rape/stealing is wrong because many of us say so. Therefore, you will refrain from them or be locked up".

My objection to orphanages is simply cost. I don't want my money funding children's lives.

 

[jim_doki]

...well, i asked a question, I got an answer

this, of course, leads into the next questions...

1)Why do you hate children?

b) Are you saying you condone murder/rape/stealing on the basis that everyone else thinks it's wrong?
is there anything you DO find abborhent and in need of punishment?

3) I still need help getting into your line of thinking on the its ok not to work thing. you do understand that my work pays you, which essentially makes you my employee?

 

[Molikroth]

I hate children because they're annoying. People consider children sacred and so on, and indoctrinate their values into them and they grow up none the wiser. Perhaps it'd be fairer to say I hate children I have no direct influence over in order to counterbalance the effect society in general has - i.e. to impart on them a sense of neutrality and self. This is why I have time for my eight-month old nephew; I'm in a position to help him grow up outside the strictures normal children have.

I don't consider anything to "need punishment" in the sense that it is objectively wrong because there is no one set of morals that is correct and true. Morals are opinions and rapists are as entitled to the opinion "rape is acceptable" as you are "candy tastes good". This of course continues on up to the point where governments treat their morals as objective ones and lock up "criminals". I find this "abhorrent" because I dislike lies and the biggest lie in existence is that governments have some "right" to do what they do. Governments are mere embodiments of "might is right".

Your work pays the government, whether you agree to or not, making you a slave. The government pays for my food, well-being and lodgings, making me a pet. There is no direct connection between us (even assuming you're a UK citizen).

 

[Break]

My objection to prisons is that I don't consider anyone to have the right to say "murder/rape/stealing is wrong because many of us say so. Therefore, you will refrain from them or be locked up".

So... If a large gang of murderers/rapists/thieves broke into your home, tied you up in a cupboard, and used your house as a hideout, you wouldn't mind if nobody stopped them? Or, indeed, would you prefer that nobody infringed on their ability to kill you?

Although, I'm also wondering. If you don't consider anyone to have the right to outlaw murder/rape/theft, why should someone have the right to carry out murder/rape/theft on another person? Or do you follow a "might makes right" style of thinking?

 

[Molikroth]

Break - my answer to your first question is "I wouldn't mind if nobody stopped them. However, I would be pissed off that they'd tied me up and taken me away from my books/computer. It isn't necessary - I'd be happy to either get on with what I was doing, or leave for a while until they were finished, if the alternative was being killed to be kept quiet. While I would not complain if someone 'stopped' them, I also have no objection to them succeeding in evading arrest, regardless of their 'crimes'".

Your second question - I don't believe in rights. Period. Not the right to be safe from murder and not the right to murder. People should do whatever they want, and I'll only get angry from a "moral" point of view when they lie about it. Obviously I'll get angry from a selfish point of view if what others want prevents me getting what I want, or harms me and so on.

This is why I despise all forms of government. By definition, governments are dictatorships and it pisses me off that they invent lies like universal morality, rights and justice.

 

[jim_doki]

ok, so children annoy you and everything that annoys you doesn't deserve food and shelter. way to go. you're certainly making the world a better place there champ. not trying to make children better, just getting rid of them. all sarcasm aside, it's probably a good thing because did you seriously just compare eating candy to violating a woman? I hope to god something very horrible happens to you.

as for your moral code, i highly recommend getting out of your rent free house and hang out with the animals. see how long you survive out there amongst those that dont have any. You cannot claim abhorance for one aspect of the government (eg providing for the needy) and then taking advantage of another system (eg providing for the "needy")

 

[Break]

Ah, righto. Out of interest, though, would you aid the police in their capture, out of a sense of revenge? Or would it offend you too much to act in coordination with the government?

 

[Molikroth]

Jim - children annoy me and everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money, which is indirectly to say hours of my life.

I take advantage of the goverment because it lets me. If you don't like it, vote Conservative next time.

Break - I'd work in my own best interests. I'd prefer not to sully myself by enabling "justice" to work, but if it saves me a stabbing I will.

 

[jim_doki]

and pray, how many people on a daily basis do you think you annoy?


incidentally, and i know i keep going on about this but,

DID YOU JUST COMPARE RAPING A WOMAN TO EATING CANDY?