Resident Evil 5 Coverage Reignites Racism Debate

[Alex_P]

So are they saying its alright for white people to kill only white people and black people to only kill blacks?

NO THEY'RE NOT SAYING THAT READ THE GODDAMN ARTICLE ALREADY!

Holy fucking shit are you really that stupid. Seriously how did you manage to even find the capslock key. Did two of your retarded friends and dumb ***** of a mom need to bust out a map to help you out.

What if it was black men dragging off a black woman or white men dragging off a white woman. No they have different color skin so its racist. Why don't you read the fucking article and then read what I said and figure out the point I'm making.

Just don't have any kids and if you do, kill them.

You know, in the time it took you to type up all that juvenile smack-talk, you could have gone and actually read the damn article instead.

(What's that? You've read the article already? Go re-read it, then, this time with the aim of comprehending the reviewer's claims rather than strawmanning them.)

-- Alex

 

[Nikajo]

but here we are talking about racism in a fu****g computer game of all things!

No. Please stop using that excuse.

Do books get that excuse? No, most people then call the book badly written and full of cliche.
Do TV shows get that excuse? No, people will complain and the shows ratings drop dramatically.
Do movies get that excuse? No, they are outcryed by the people offended and they may even release an edited version of it.

So is it that hard, that hard to imagine that the most interactive medium to ever hit human kind would be getting some huge flak for putting the player in this racial position? It's just stunning, a computer game of all things? Who knew that the most interactive medium to ever hit human kind would be getting more flak than a passive medium of watching a movie or reading a book would.

If video games are to ever gain the stature of "art" then we have to deal with these issues upfront and maturely and not just brush it off as some overly sensitive/paranoid freak who wants everything fun to burn.

A "fucking computer game!" is a hell of a lot more involving than any book, show, movie, or piece of music will ever become and I for one am glad that we are dealing with these issues because no controversy means no chance of becoming a respected medium in society.

Good night, and grow the fuck up.

U do have a point actually, computer games are played by alot of ppl so do hold a certain amount of influence, and yes can be far more involving than a book or a film if u get immersed in it. I just find it irritating when u look at wot happens to ppl day in and day out in real life and yet here we are arguing about a computer game(could easily replace this word with book or film). perhaps im posting on the wrong forum....? i just get the impression that ppl r looking for things to complain about, and becoz this particular game shows "black ppl doing bad things" then its automatically labeled as racist. and its only a racial position if u think its a racial position. personally wen i play it its gonna feel more like "these guys are trying to kill me so im gonna make sure i sure i kill them first". as for whether or not the cinematics are racist...well if sumbody is weak minded enough to be influenced by this they deserved to be culled, i cant rememeber any book or film or game ive ever expereinced deciding my attitudes for me. sorry if the way i put it annoyed u but comments like "grow the f**k up" arent exactly gonna get ur message across in way that is gonna be palatable to other ppl. so all im gonna say is "calm the f**k down"

Its not like i dont agree with u, i just feel that even acknowledging the possible racism just adds to the problem overall.

 

[Ronwue]

I really don't get this. They're brainthristy zombies... who the fuck cares what color their skin is... at the end of the day is either shoot them or have your brains eaten... Next thing we know, there will be the movement for zombie rights, inter zombie marriages and emancipation of the zombies.

/sarcasm

Hell, might as well declare the unicorns an endangered species.

 

[Nikajo]

I really don't get this. They're brainthristy zombies... who the fuck cares what color their skin is... at the end of the day is either shoot them or have your brains eaten... Next thing we know, there will be the movement for zombie rights, inter zombie marriages and emancipation of the zombies.

/sarcasm

Hell, might as well declare the unicorns an endangered species.

the problem ppl have is depicting the non-infected black ppl as violent. its a can of worms that im seriously wishing i hadnt gotten into lol

 

[Jumplion]

but here we are talking about racism in a fu****g computer game of all things!

No. Please stop using that excuse.

Do books get that excuse? No, most people then call the book badly written and full of cliche.
Do TV shows get that excuse? No, people will complain and the shows ratings drop dramatically.
Do movies get that excuse? No, they are outcryed by the people offended and they may even release an edited version of it.

So is it that hard, that hard to imagine that the most interactive medium to ever hit human kind would be getting some huge flak for putting the player in this racial position? It's just stunning, a computer game of all things? Who knew that the most interactive medium to ever hit human kind would be getting more flak than a passive medium of watching a movie or reading a book would.

If video games are to ever gain the stature of "art" then we have to deal with these issues upfront and maturely and not just brush it off as some overly sensitive/paranoid freak who wants everything fun to burn.

A "fucking computer game!" is a hell of a lot more involving than any book, show, movie, or piece of music will ever become and I for one am glad that we are dealing with these issues because no controversy means no chance of becoming a respected medium in society.

Good night, and grow the fuck up.

U do have a point actually, computer games are played by alot of ppl so do hold a certain amount of influence, and yes can be far more involving than a book a film if u get immersed in it. I just find it irritating when u look at wot happens to ppl day in and day out in real life and yet here we are arguing about a computer game(could easily replace this word with book or film). perhaps im posting on the wrong forum....? i just get the impression that ppl r looking for things to complain about, and becoz this particular game shows "black ppl doing bad things" then its automatically labeled as racist. and its only a racial position if u think its a racial position. personally wen i play it its gonna feel more like "these guys are trying to kill me so im gonna make sure i sure i kill them first". as for whether or not the cinematics are racist...well if sumbody is weak minded enough to be influenced by this they deserved to be culled, i cant rememeber any book or film or game ive ever expereinced deciding my attitudes for me. sorry if the way i put it annoyed u but comments like "grow the fuck up" arent exactly gonna get ur message across in way that is gonna be palatable to other ppl. so all im gonna say is "calm the fuck down"

Do pardon my "grow the fuck up" comment, I was caught up in the moment. But anyway;

1. Please try to use proper grammar and punctuation. It would greatly improve peoples responses to you.

2. These people are arguing about a computer game because it gives off the impression that it's okay for video games to be racist and the player that these things aren't racist when in fact some of these situations can be racist.
Movies, shows, and books with potential racist showings in them are generally ignored because we accept them and already know that they are stereotypes and that none of these are necessarily true. But video games haven't hit that sweet spot yet. Really, compare stereotypes in movies to stereotypes in video games and it's clear which one's the one with the bigger problem with stereotypes.

It won't be a quick fix, but eventually video games will get to the maturity where it can display stereotypes in a mature fashion and not have it racist.

Of course, this is nothing what the article says. The article is saying that the actions of the noninfectious Africans portray that it's common ground in Africa when really, while it is bad there, it's not like everyone there is blood thirsty and vicious.

I really don't get this. They're brainthristy zombies... who the fuck cares what color their skin is... at the end of the day is either shoot them or have your brains eaten... Next thing we know, there will be the movement for zombie rights, inter zombie marriages and emancipation of the zombies.

/sarcasm

Hell, might as well declare the unicorns an endangered species.

Please read the article. Do not assume with "Resident Evil 5" and "racism" in the same headline means what you think.

 

[Ronwue]

The problem people have is debating whether it is racist or not. It's a piece of fiction. While the existence of Africa and black people is known as a fact, anything other than that is thrown through at least two points of view. What that means is that you are looking through a blurry lens at an abstract painting. Of course some things will look interesting while others will look like pornography, racism or whatever else.

 

[Ronwue]

I really don't get this. They're brainthristy zombies... who the fuck cares what color their skin is... at the end of the day is either shoot them or have your brains eaten... Next thing we know, there will be the movement for zombie rights, inter zombie marriages and emancipation of the zombies.

/sarcasm

Hell, might as well declare the unicorns an endangered species.

Please read the article. Do not assume with "Resident Evil 5" and "racism" in the same headline means what you think.

I reread it. It meant exactly what I thought it meant the first time. Another person complaining about racism in games. And there is something else I would like to point out. If these things are racist towards African people, don't you think there are enough educated people of African origin that would be offended by that. I bet Dan Whitehead or any other of the complainers are not even black, let alone of African origin... so pray tell... how exactly does this work? Do they really believe they need us to tell them what they should or should not be offended by?

EDIT : Sorry for double post, I assumed someone would post between my two messages...

 

[Enigmers]

And how many white people in video games have been killed, or were assholes, or douchebags? Hell, maybe I should sue.

 

[Nikajo]

1. Yeah you're right sorry I'm just very lazy! I suppose I should use proper grammer, I actually put "b4" in my dissertation write up the other day and nearly hit myself with a frying pan because of it.

It won't be a quick fix, but eventually video games will get to the maturity where it can display stereotypes in a mature fashion and not have it racist.

let's hope so! I would like video games to become....not sure which word I'm looking for here but I suppose recognised will do, by "normal" people for something that can actually contribute to modern society as opposed to a big waste of time that alot of them feel it is.

I do get annoyed by the way some people seem to lap up everything their told regardless of the source (religion anybody?).

Of course, this is nothing what the article says. The article is saying that the actions of the noninfectious Africans portray that it's common ground in Africa when really, while it is bad there, it's not like everyone there is blood thirsty and vicious.

ofcourse you could go the other way and say that world is an ugly disgusting place to live but then that's awfully cynical ;-)

seriously though your're right, not everybody in that entire continent wants to kill everybody else but I do wonder if the game developers ever thought that through....

EDIT: glad that we could have an actual discussion rather than a flaming war!

 

[KenzS]

we need more asian zombies

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Can I claim racism that the rugged and experianced marine sargeant is always black and the inspid and stupid leuitenant with no experiance is always white?

 

[wickedragon]

The sad thing is that if they had twenty black men raping a baby with it's mothers sawed-off arms it would be a good account of what is happening in the darkest places of the dark continent. And when I'm saying that I'm not referring to the colour of anyones skin. Except for with the 'dark continent' bit.
Read up on the savagery commited in Somalia and south-west Sudan.

Read up on a little bit with the links from Ace of Something and then read on.
Some of the shit happening there makes Papa Doc and his Tonton Macoute look like amatures. :/

Isn't it supposed to be in a war torn part of Africa? African people committing atrocities against their own people? That's such bull it's not at all like it could be based on current events sensationalized a bit (ya know.... zombies) like most hollywood movies and things like that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20038999/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7852086.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

...

The games portrayal of the wartorn parts of Africa isn't racist. It's not even violent enough :'(

 

[Break]

The games portrayal of the wartorn parts of Africa isn't racist. It's not even violent enough :'(

Yes. Horrible atrocities happen in Africa. But - and please listen carefully, now - that's not all Africa is. Even in the most dangerous places, there are ordinary people that are trying to live in the midst of it all. And because RE5 is one of the largest mainstream games in recent years to be set in Africa and feature the locals, it's important that they have a balance in how they portray the population.

Even ignoring the issue of race, if one of the high-budget releases of the year is full of outdated cliches, it's not going to help people take games seriously. If RE5 does it properly, we'll have another response to the people who say "games never deal with important issues". To have a game illustrate the disparity between the warring factions and the ordinary people in Africa, will be a lot more beneficial than a game that says "the only difference between zombie monsters and Africans are the number of tentacles".

Hell, it's just not good horror to throw the audience into a dangerous setting immediately. Controlling the tempo, and putting us at ease is an important aspect of anything in the genre - especially so for a game that relies on shocks and frights. Illustrating some normal people trying to survive is a good way to get some emotional hooks in the player, too.

I reread it. It meant exactly what I thought it meant the first time. Another person complaining about racism in games. And there is something else I would like to point out. If these things are racist towards African people, don't you think there are enough educated people of African origin that would be offended by that. I bet Dan Whitehead or any other of the complainers are not even black, let alone of African origin... so pray tell... how exactly does this work? Do they really believe they need us to tell them what they should or should not be offended by?

EDIT : Sorry for double post, I assumed someone would post between my two messages...

"Why do you have an opinion on what's being done about Guantanamo Bay? It wasn't your human rights being violated."
"Why do you care about the environment? You'll be dead before it has a real effect."
"Why do you care about that bully beating up that kid and taking his lunch money? It's not like he's asked you to help."

Because this is a big-budget game that has come under public scrutiny. If it's dredging up racist concepts, it's going to be as helpful to the industry as the Hot Coffee nonsense, or the Mass Effect sex simulator. We have enough people making up bullshit about videogames without handing them a legitimate issue.

 

[yami0333]

I think that Capcom is making a point about being PC, DON"T DO IT!!!! also how does that guy know the woman being drug isn't relavent to the plotline. etc,etc... I don't see it as a racist game, and neither do some of my other friends, some of which are of different skin color. The Game takes place in AFRICA!!!! so what color of skin do you suspect them of being, also the HEAD EVIL GUY IS WHITE, i could call that racist by there same logic

 

[yami0333]

Oh and on a final note, most Africans got over the slave trade, and the Jews got over the Holocaust, leave it to the round eyes to blow things out of purportion

 

[Ronwue]

I reread it. It meant exactly what I thought it meant the first time. Another person complaining about racism in games. And there is something else I would like to point out. If these things are racist towards African people, don't you think there are enough educated people of African origin that would be offended by that. I bet Dan Whitehead or any other of the complainers are not even black, let alone of African origin... so pray tell... how exactly does this work? Do they really believe they need us to tell them what they should or should not be offended by?

EDIT : Sorry for double post, I assumed someone would post between my two messages...

"Why do you have an opinion on what's being done about Guantanamo Bay? It wasn't your human rights being violated."
"Why do you care about the environment? You'll be dead before it has a real effect."
"Why do you care about that bully beating up that kid and taking his lunch money? It's not like he's asked you to help."

Because this is a big-budget game that has come under public scrutiny. If it's dredging up racist concepts, it's going to be as helpful to the industry as the Hot Coffee nonsense, or the Mass Effect sex simulator. We have enough people making up bullshit about videogames without handing them a legitimate issue.

You do realize that the questions you posed are of general human rights, the environment and common sense have no actual resemblance to the question I posed. I'm going to ask you then since you're going against my sayings on this. Do you believe Africans are unable/incapable/not educated enough to say for themselves that they are offended by this? Do you find it necessary to tell other people how and what they should be offended by?

Think again at the questions you asked as an example and see if they have the logic you hoped they have. I didn't say we shouldn't be mindful about being racist or whatever, I said we shouldn't blindly jump into a political correctness bandwagon just because something seems odd. If a particular, game, movie, book seems offensive to some people, said people should be the first to be offended by it. Not white people who never even seen a documentary on Africa, let alone have been there, are black or have origins there. Q.E.D.

 

[Break]

Obvious stuff

Which is why I didn't bother expanding on those questions, and instead offered a more straightforward reason why we should care about whether or not RE5 is racist. My point was that we should carefully consider what message Capcom is making with the game, and not immediately say "Capcom is racist, burn them" or "fucking over PC bullshit I hate you sheep". We don't know enough to make a decision, but we do know that they're straying worryingly close to the racism side of the line.

 

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

A friend of mine who is a big fan of Resident Evil 4 (and none of the other games because she's a poser) seems to think that RE5 is very, very racist. The impression I got from the demo was no different from the impression I got from RE4. RE4 had you killing parasitically-infected Spaniard after infected Spaniard. The games before it had you killing more traditional "reanimated" type zombies.

I don't see what difference it makes. Plus, I remember seeing white and Asian (speaking of both east and west Asians) zombies in the RE5 demo. It is not a racist game. What's racist is the fact that people are still making a big stink about skin color and applying it to fucking everything. A world without racism would not even feel the need to point these things out, because the act of doing so is racist and inflammatory in and of itself.

I can take anything and make it racist.

Note the opening animatic from the game Left 4 Dead, which as I'm sure everyone here is aware, is a co-op survival/first-person shooter that pits you against the neverending infected horde. Four still human survivors are playable in the game at this time; Francis, a biker, Bill, a Vietnam war vet, Zoey, an attractive college girl obsessed with horror flicks, and Louis, a black, office-type every day man.

Watching the animatic I can easily argue that Louis is portrayed as the weakest of the group. The old horror movie structure tool of "black guy dies first" is definitely present here; he startles the witch in that closet, he runs out into the middle of the street like a moron and immediately gets pounced by a hunter, he is at least partially responsible for another horde attack because he and Zoey set off a car alarm while they are dispatching the hunter that grabbed him.

Valve made Louis, on a personality level at least, into the "fuck up" character, the guy who is sure to get eaten. Even in campaign mode his AI always seems to startle the witch, set off the car alarms, and get tongued or pounced to death in the most ridiculous ways.

They're obviously trying to say that black people have poor survival skills and don't think very hard about their actions, to boot. What a racist company. Valve should be ashamed of themselves for making this game.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

So...being black is racist now?

Any depiction of blacks or Africa that's based on standard tropes and cliches is at least moderately racist. Because the standard tropes and cliches themselves are inherently racist.

So, in order to create a not-moderately-racist narrative about blacks or Africa, you have to work a little bit harder instead of just using the standard cliches.

-- Alex

While I agree with you that the devs need to work harder to get around the tropes and stereotypes, I keep thinking this:

Holy hell, most black people depicted in games or movies (or hip hop for that matter) are stereotypes. The black guy from Gears of War (Cole or whassisname) is one big trope in my eyes as are any person from GTA:SA.

What makes this worse I wonder? Is it because of it's setting? I recently heard a radio documentary about Congo. I highly doubt anything in this game could be as bad as the shit happening in Congo these past years. I really wish I hadn't heard some of it.

The problem is, if a problem exists, that RE5 isn't the right game to show the many many issues that exist in Africa these days. The situation in Congo is very complicated, and is actually more like FarCry 2.

 

[Alex_P]

Holy hell, most black people depicted in games or movies (or hip hop for that matter) are stereotypes. The black guy from Gears of War (Cole or whassisname) is one big trope in my eyes as are any person from GTA:SA.

Yeah. The game industry in general has consistently failed to avoid stereotyping. I think it's a symptom of the fact that they've consistently failed to write well.

-- Alex