Rockstar Sold Max Payne 2 Using Pirated Code

[WitherVoice]

Akalistos, I'm talking legality, not ethics, here. Most of your comments are absolutely pointless in that argument, so as ridiculous as I find them, I'll leave them be. Here and there are some good points too, by the way, but they are as a rule not relevant to the argument I am in on this, anyway. I respond to a few of the points that ARE relevant.

In a police case, if a armed bank robber get busted. Won't the gun be taken by the authority? Can a criminal reclaim the gun he use in a criminal act? Can he sue the police for ownership? The hack is a tool, just like a pistol is for a bank robbery.

Severely flawed analogy. If the bank robber designed and crafted the weapon himself, then that design is his property no matter what nefarious deeds he may have committed with it. If Samuel Colt designed and crafted his revolutionary revolving flintlock design, then robbed a bank with that gun, the revolving flintlock pistol and design would be his. The physical pistol would likely be evidence and he'd not be likely to see it again, naturally, but neither would it become property of the bank he robbed.

Now, I find myself again on the opposing team. I know right: "It in the fine print of the submission form." But here, it work that a fan did. I expect that he got his name in the credit and get a prize. Can't he brag being on the team that made (EXAMPLE) Diablo 3. That thing stink of: "Thank for doing our work now buzz off". Maybe it's just the way you say it. How about this: You would be included as a programmer of blizzard in the Upcoming game and win a sweet price instead of submission become the property of Blizzard S*ckers!!! LOLOLOLOL

Ethical it may not be, but Blizzard (or any other company in their place) could not do it any other way. You participate in those competitions knowing, or at least you SHOULD know, that acknowledgement and a prize is what you get, and no more. If Blizzard were to NOT take possession of the work, they could not publish it, because then later they could be sued for part of their profits. It's flawed and it sucks, but it's not really up for change

So by your logic, if i change all the name in the credit of a upcoming game for my own, that work (aka the game) will be mine and i have the right to sell it? Cool! Be on the lookout for STARCRAFT 2 by AKALISTOS ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!

This "misunderstanding" is so glaring that I suspect it's deliberate. The original game executable is the property of its creator. The program that modifies it is property of ITS creator. Just because my program opens and mucks about with a file made by someone else, that does not mean that my program is suddenly THEIR program.

Yet, if it wall on freeware, they are ok.

No. "Freeware" is not an unambiguous legal term. If the license for the code says "take our code and do with it what you will, including selling it for profit", then Rockstar are fine. If the license says "use the product and modify it, but do not sell it" (a common type of license), then they are not. If there is no license, you'd have to litigate, which would cost far more than creating the code yourself (if you're Rockstar)... because leaving out a license means that it's the property of its creator.

 

[RobCoxxy]

maybe the guy Rockstar put in charge for making the game Steam compatible used to be part of Myth & figured he'd save time by using one he made earlier?

Ah, the old Art Attack technique?

"And here's one I made earlier."

 

[hyperdrachen]

That's like stealing a pothead's brownie, adding nuts to it, and selling it. It just doesn't make any sense on any level.

Unless you consider the fact that "cracking" a game is very freaking hard to do. It's just laziness (or, as the Rockstar supporter would say, "opportunism") on their part.

No this is like making brownies, having them stolen by a pothead, said pothead sprinkling weed on them. Then later getting your modded brownies back, deciding you were gonna have to lace them with pot eventually and you may as well get some sort of repairations for the sales you lost to the pothead incident, and selling them as is. This story is ffin wierd.

Honestly I'd have done the same thing, for the lulz. They probably thought it was funny. I doubt very much there was alot of code in the cd check(i mean if you have the original source code), and could have probably commented it out of the compile in a matter of hours. Honestly what kind of trouble can they get in. Oh you wanna sue us for infringing on your work to reverse engineer our software?

 

[The Great Zegrool]

So they pirated a pirate's pirate of a game?

Makes sense.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I doubt very much there was alot of code in the cd check(i mean if you have the original source code), and could have probably commented it out of the compile in a matter of hours. Honestly what kind of trouble can they get in. Oh you wanna sue us for infringing on your work to reverse engineer our software?

You'd be surprised...

No, it's not likely to be a lot of code, but games are huge. If the code base hasn't been compiled in years, (eg. It's quite an old game), there's a very high chance that it won't compile.

Game projects often have so much, and such convoluted code, that actually compiling a game's source code can be a bit of a dark art.

Unless you can match the development environment that the game was originally compiled with, there's a fair chance you'll run into huge numbers of unidentifiable errors.

Hell, I have it with a 'game' I created in 2001. It's not even complicated code, and I have the libraries, and even access to the same compiler I used.
And yet, the 9 year old pre-compiled exe files worked perfectly, while a newly compiled version I tried to make (without even changing any code), last year, did not work at all.

So no. Not as easy as it sounds.

 

[FloodOne]

Awesome. Making money off of the backs of people who won't spend their own.

Fantastic on every level.

 

[BlindMessiah94]

Poor Rockstar. Actually they probably put one guy in charge of readying it for distribution, and he used some initiative.



Well it seems Rockstar has finally... *Puts on Glasses*

Cracked

<youtube=mR3jnW2kcUs>

Well that's today's meme quota filled

Oh 13, how I love thee.

OT: This had me smile. It's nice to see a lazy programmer pirating a pirate.

Someone really dropped the ball here lol.

 

[Evil the White]

TIME PARADOX

In all seriousness though, how could you be done for using a cracked version of your own software, if you are the original owner?

 

[Bloodstain]

I don't think Myth is gonna come running with a lawsuit any time soon.

I think they will be proud

Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing. Why crack the game yourself when someone else already did it?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Why can't I buy either Max Payne games or any GTA games (except GTAIV and Episodes) from Steam in Australia, but people in the US can buy them (and other Rockstar games)

I have all the GTA games and MP 1 & 2 pirated, and I think they're great games so I wanna own them. Can't find them anywhere though except Ebay and I'll be damned if I'm buying a second hand copy. May as well just stick with my pirated versions if that's the case. :/

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

Firstly I didn't read that and secondly THIS IS NOT FAN FICTION. Nor is it really a mod, Garrys Mod is a mod, giving the characters genitals is a mod, replacing all the weapons with, I don't know, popsicles is a mod. This is giving people the capacity to play the game without paying the people who actually made it, which is an endorsement of piracy, which I don't look kindly upon.

And once again. The Copyright law doesn't care, if the piece of code rockstar stole is the future skynet and will kill us all, or a new css-soundfile. It. doesn't. matter. It is an individual piece of code, which no matter it's purpose, can't be taken without breaking the law.

May I remind you that copyright laws do vary from country to country, as does the implications of said laws from judge to judge. Based on this, it would all depend on A: who sues who, B: Where they are sued, and C: If the judge is sympathetic towards whatever Myth is (I call them pirates, you can call them whatever) or businesses like Rockstar. So basically the legality of the situation is debatable.

 

[Akalistos]

Yes, you don't like pirates. We figured that out, so did my plush animals and the man in the moon.

Your plush is smart. Wow! But tell the guy on the moon not to spy on me, I hate that.

It doesn't make your argument any more relevant. I never said pirating max payne wasn't a breach of copyright law. What I am saying, is that Rockstar, by doing the exact same myth did, only WORSE, Rockstar are no better, then the people you hate so passionate.

Worse? WORSE? WORSE? OK, you lost me there. You said that if someone stole a full program is less of a crime than a line of code? If it like that, the gas station cashier that made a error of one Dollar is to be arrested and sentence to jail? According to your logic also, we should make bank robbery a minor offence? Let me point out a thing here, you said EXACT SAME THING by the way. How come you can judge two exact same thing and said one is worse. You can't, don't you? I hate hackers but you hate game company my friend... you hate game company indeed.

And one again, 'you stole from me, now I make nick all your stuff' isn't covered by the law. Might be some romantic fantasy of zorroesque revenge you have there, but that doesn't make rockstars actions any less illegal.

Come here, evildoers! I shall put my mark on the! A for Akalistos. En Garde! (Nope i don't see what your talking about.)

(Oh and just to shoot the 'you're no programmer, you'd be angry too' argument in the leg once and for all - my boyfriend is an author and we both fund our studies with working on small movie productions (A business you might realize, that falls victim to pirates even more than the games industry.)

It depend... If your working in the porn industry than yes you may face piracy. If not, i don't think that small movie production get theatrical release or any pub at all. They are more the kind of movie your make fun of in a video store. (I worked in one by the way). Nobody give real thought on movies like DRAGONS WARS or HARD CANDY or even DEAD OR ALIVE THE MOVIE. Beside, nothing is worse than music.

. (If there was any reason to get angry at pirates, I would have plenty of it, no?)

Also, what do you do exactly?

Neither your saluting to the exact same kind of thiefs you want to get 'sued out of their homes', nor your fantasies about how federal law works,

Which should protect the small man against the big company... always. Even when it's wrong.

are of any relevance to the fact, that taking a piece of code, and selling it without even asking the owner is not covered by those laws.

Piracy are covert by federal law, but that code fall more on the copyright law. (if they want to acknowledge that code as theirs, they will be force to pay the price) What hammer should fall harder. Make your pick!

Rockstar for President 2010!
Rockstar for Master of the Universe 2010!
Rockstar for Deity 2010!

 

[Akalistos]

Severely flawed analogy. If the bank robber designed and crafted the weapon himself, then that design is his property no matter what nefarious deeds he may have committed with it. If Samuel Colt designed and crafted his revolutionary revolving flintlock design, then robbed a bank with that gun, the revolving flintlock pistol and design would be his. The physical pistol would likely be evidence and he'd not be likely to see it again, naturally, but neither would it become property of the bank he robbed.

I know its counted as evidence, but why wouldn't he see it again? It his gun, right? Instead, i become a piece of evidence until the shelves are too crowded and then thrown aways in garbage. That basically the same vibe I got from your (aka: all anti-Rockstar) post: OMG!!1! THEY R THEIF. K1ll R0CK5TAR!! Understand that even if that code is taken, myth can get it back without facing the Feds. Sorry but hacking is a federal crime and that code fall under copyright. They can't complain anyways and it doesn't hurt them because they don't profit from it. That's not the case when myth hack Max Payne 2 because that work was worth the money. Any work done need to be payed beside charity. What Myth did is basicaly that, charity. It give morons the change to have fun on the back of nice working people. Ain't that sad?

Now, I find myself again on the opposing team. I know right: "It in the fine print of the submission form." But here, it work that a fan did. I expect that he got his name in the credit and get a prize. Can't he brag being on the team that made (EXAMPLE) Diablo 3. That thing stink of: "Thank for doing our work now buzz off". Maybe it's just the way you say it. How about this: You would be included as a programmer of blizzard in the Upcoming game and win a sweet price instead of submission become the property of Blizzard S*ckers!!! LOLOLOLOL

Ethical it may not be, but Blizzard (or any other company in their place) could not do it any other way. You participate in those competitions knowing, or at least you SHOULD know, that acknowledgement and a prize is what you get, and no more. If Blizzard were to NOT take possession of the work, they could not publish it, because then later they could be sued for part of their profits. It's flawed and it sucks, but it's not really up for change

Again. If they consider that employees work are legally owned by the individual and Blizzard, they could do it. It like, become a honorary member of the staff. Therefore, they are acknowledge and it doesn't take the right to publish it. Why did i say the individual? Because if you have played games like Splinter Cell... those game are nothing more that ctrl C / Ctrl V type of work. It also ensure that the piece of software isn't re-use over and over and over and over....... Also, making it a piece of the staff give right to Blizzard. But that how i see it. If you are from legal school, tell me which book they said it impossible.

So by your logic, if i change all the name in the credit of a upcoming game for my own, that work (aka the game) will be mine and i have the right to sell it? Cool! Be on the lookout for STARCRAFT 2 by AKALISTOS ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!

This "misunderstanding" is so glaring that I suspect it's deliberate.

If you just suspect, well maybe i gave you to much credit. It a exageration to make a point, yet it didn't seem to hit his target. No matter, Making a error don't qualify anyone as stupid but as humans.

The original game executable is the property of its creator. The program that modifies it is property of ITS creator. Just because my program opens and mucks about with a file made by someone else, that does not mean that my program is suddenly THEIR program.

Yet you say the same thing in reverse. If the original Executable is made by Rockstar and they use that same code with just a few change in certain parameters, doesn't the rest code is owned by Rockstar? How come changing Zeros and Ones can change the propriety of the whole excutable.

Yet, if it wall on(was a) freeware, they are ok.

No. "Freeware" is not an unambiguous legal term. If the license for the code says "take our code and do with it what you will, including selling it for profit", then Rockstar are fine. If the license says "use the product and modify it, but do not sell it" (a common type of license), then they are not. If there is no license, you'd have to litigate, which would cost far more than creating the code yourself (if you're Rockstar)... because leaving out a license means that it's the property of its creator.

But where should it fall, that the question. Piracy is a federal crime and but its less than Piracy & Resell of Stolen goods. If Myth would have sell that hack, and get cought, they wouldn't see the light of the sun until it goes supernova. So, they would most likely separate themself from anyone (a individual, not Rockstar) trying to sell it. If they goes the "Modify and not Sell" route, they may be seen as part of the same group that sold the hack. So my money is on Take it and do what you like, knowing they can't be held responsable for the other twat that sell it. Therefore, it should be ok. Right now, new laws should be inacted about this. Hacks shouldn't be part of intellectual property, even if freeware or not.

 

[WitherVoice]

stuff

I'm getting really, really bored of arguing singular points with you, mostly because where I say "this may be illegal, any thoughts" you reply "it shouldn't be illegal, so who cares", which does not really belong in that argument. So let me summarize.

I have nothing against Rockstar, but I feel that they have performed a profoundly stupid and quite possibly illegal action that they very much should not have, namely theft. What led up to this act does not in any way influence the legality of it. Without knowing the specific details I cannot really say for certain whether the actions are actually illegal or not, as I do not know if Myth provided any kind of license with their work.

I feel confident that Rockstar will face no legal repercussions for what they have done, and I don't feel that they should. I feel equally confident that Myth will not face any legal repercussions, and I don't feel that they should, either. I will, however, NEVER condone the appropriation and sale of someone else's work for your own gain, which means that I strongly disapprove of Rockstar's actions in this particular case.

I also strongly disapprove of GTAIV, which I think was a sub-par game.

 

[Akalistos]

stuff

I'm getting really, really bored of arguing singular points with you, mostly because where I say "this may be illegal, any thoughts" you reply "it shouldn't be illegal, so who cares", which does not really belong in that argument. So let me summarize.

And if you read all i said, i never implied that it wasn't Illegal. I see justice like a ladder, with each step upwards being worst and worst. If I were to scale the crimes, Myth would just be higher because you worked, and getting payed is something you look forward for your trouble. Since game company pay just a small percent of the profit to the developers (the rest being eating between Marketing and the distributors), you can understand why someone that steel a code that is free and sell it isn't worse that stealing a game and share it for free.

I have nothing against Rockstar, [Yes you have, look to your last line. In all fairness, I don't like them very much either] but I feel that they have performed a profoundly stupid and quite possibly illegal action that they very much should not have, namely theft. What led up to this act does not in any way influence the legality of it. Without knowing the specific details I cannot really say for certain whether the actions are actually illegal or not, as I do not know if Myth provided any kind of license with their work.

I don't think they can either ways. It not a tool that can't help mankind, not a weapon, nor a cure or a advance piece of software. It a hack, and i don't think you can license a hack.

I feel confident that Rockstar will face no legal repercussions for what they have done, and I don't feel that they should. I feel equally confident that Myth will not face any legal repercussions, and I don't feel that they should, either. I will, however, NEVER condone the appropriation and sale of someone else's work for your own gain, which means that I strongly disapprove of Rockstar's actions in this particular case.

Fair enough, but like i said, if the game cost 60$ new and that Myth was able to distribute at least 240 copy free. That 14 400,00$! We are 7 billions people on the planet. I can't guess accurately how many peoples hack this game beside one ( a old friend i haven't talk to in 8 years). But that a bigger lost than what the freeware made. If it twenty buck for the game and it sold to 240 people, that 4 800$. Also, when I said freeware, it mean that those guy from myth didn't expect to get paid. Ever! They did that on their own free times. Its those factors that i take into account when i see news like this one. Your tired of arguing with me? I'm not, because I'm not arguing! I just say what i think, and when someone shot me down I felt compelled to make them look the way i see it. Not to change it mind, god knows how stubborn most people are, but to be able to see my angle and say: I don't think he's right, but i see where he is coming from.

I also strongly disapprove of GTAIV, which I think was a sub-par game.

Same here (sis or bro), I hate repetitions... and why would i care about a thief, murderer, and crazy man?

Edit: corrected some mistake.

 

[tahrey]

That logo woulda looked far better / been more readable if the guy had switched his editor to the DOS characterset... :-/

just sayin'

 

[Reliq]

Sooo... If you pirate a game that has pirated code from a pirated copy of a game... I just lost my train of though XP

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