Rockstar Sold Max Payne 2 Using Pirated Code

[Orcus The Ultimate]

i kind of feel Pirates are more a necessity than a nuisance, let's say you eliminate the mosquitoes from the ecosystem, and you'll see numerous frogs, birds and other species die of hunger.

 

[WitherVoice]

blah

In Square Enix' case, they say that they own everything of their FF 11 (or whatever it was) MMO that is made in-game. I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure that also includes any mods, although they probably mean that it does, especially their lawyers. Secondly, I don't consider this a "mod", I consider it pirating, because while you may not use it as such that doesn't mean there isn't 1000 others who do. Besides pirating is for douchebags and people who do it should be treated as such, i.e. with no courtesy about it (least that's my policy). Also, I don't see how courts are going to go on the side of MYTH, because if these are the same courts I'm thinking of, then MYTH is going to loose like a squirrel against a Tyranid horde.

Square Enix seem to have the same thing going that Blizzard have. That clause is there to define that your character, its possessions and all associated stuff is THEIR property, not YOURS, and that while you may play it you do not OWN it. Mods are interpreted code which you have the right to create, in this case, and while I haven't looked at Square Enix's license legalese bullpoo, in World of Warcraft any addon code is property of its creator. I'd be AMAZED if SqEnix have gotten around that in a way that will stand up in court, should it be challenged.

Second, writing a NoCD crack is not a crime, it's a violation of the licence agreement. This means that Rockstar could take Myth's right to use the software away, along with anyone who USES said NoCD crack. For Rockstar to take this code without backing in a license that allows it, or seeking the originator's permission, however, is a crime: theft. And to use the old, flawed analogy here... just because someone used a crowbar to break into your house, doesn't mean you have the right to go to the factory and take all the crowbars you want.

 

[Delusibeta]

As someone who floats around GOG.com's forums, which similar issues have floated up, I see this very much as a non-story. It is a poor show that Rockstar didn't bother to at least remove the identifier, however.

 

[Elementlmage]

Also, is it unethical to pirate the work of a pirate?

Riley Freeman, "Now, this presents an interesting philosophical question. 'Is it okay to snitch to the police, on the police?'"

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

Square Enix seem to have the same thing going that Blizzard have. That clause is there to define that your character, its possessions and all associated stuff is THEIR property, not YOURS, and that while you may play it you do not OWN it. Mods are interpreted code which you have the right to create, in this case, and while I haven't looked at Square Enix's license legalese bullpoo, in World of Warcraft any addon code is property of its creator. I'd be AMAZED if SqEnix have gotten around that in a way that will stand up in court, should it be challenged.

Second, writing a NoCD crack is not a crime, it's a violation of the licence agreement. This means that Rockstar could take Myth's right to use the software away, along with anyone who USES said NoCD crack. For Rockstar to take this code without backing in a license that allows it, or seeking the originator's permission, however, is a crime: theft. And to use the old, flawed analogy here... just because someone used a crowbar to break into your house, doesn't mean you have the right to go to the factory and take all the crowbars you want.

Read the below comment. (mine that is)

So because many people use household items like, say kinves to kill people, you consider the crafting of knives murder?
And besides, since Rockstar are the pirates in this case, I assume you declare them to be total douchebags that do not deserve any mercy whatsoever?

Argh, I was hoping that no one would notice that gaping hole in my argument (quite sincere here by the way). No I don't think that the crafting of knives is "murder", however I do believe that the making of nuclear weapons doesn't make it any harder for insurgens to get their hands on them (though admittedly the probability of that is insanely slim). What I am saying is that even if you intend what you are making to be used for best intentions somebody's always going to try and exploit it, and you better keep track of that. And no Rockstar aren't the pirates here, because slapping a clown hat on Michelangelo's David isn't making a new artwork, its just defacing an existing one.

 

[Zannah]

And no Rockstar aren't the pirates here, because slapping a clown hat on Michelangelo's David isn't making a new artwork, its just defacing an existing one.

Yes they are. As stated above, just because you write fanfiction, doesn't give the author of the original book the right to take YOUR writing, that is technically (from the law's prospective that is) unrelated, and sell it, without even mentioning you.
Even if the crack was freeware (which it isn't), Rockstar would still be in the wrong for selling it. Sell the game, and link to where to get the no cd crack, that's fine, but selling another mans intelectual property isn't no matter how you look at it.

 

[CopperBoom]

Interesting (butt free) article about cracks.

 

[Oktanas]

now that's EPIC FAIL

 

[Flying Dagger]

Seems eminently practical to me.
I see no moral dilemma here.

edit: Rockstar are selling THEIR OWN PRODUCT. It is different from the pirated version because you've actually paid the company from it.]

It also does not mean Rockstar are no longer allowed to complain about piracy either. Thousands of people probably downloaded the Myth version, the simple fact they got anything out of it is a bonus.

You're better off getting worked up about how crap Max Payne 3 is going to be.

 

[Akalistos]

If Speaking of freeware! Didn't that code end up being one? It made for hacking but Myth or whatever didn't charge anything for it. It was free for everyone. How come they can't use it? Their work was acknowledge right?

The code, apparently, was a NoCD crack. I use NoCD cracks all the time, on my legally bought games; the code is made to circumvent a critical flaw of the software, not "to steal".

You mean like securom? Granted for that but how many game have a startup problem in total? Beside, it the developers to correct those bugs, and digital distribution seem like a good alternative now. By all mean, i don't say you need to buy the same produce twice but now, just don't buy a physical copy and everything should be peachy! Or stick to console.

But that's another debate.

No, that the core of this debate. Is stealing from a thief really is stealing or taking it back.

Anyway, the crack is not freeware unless it is licensed as such.

Wrong! They distribute it for free with the game they hack. They never ask for money, they know they won't get some. It basically a freeware, even if you try to say otherwise.

A fair analogy might be a user creating a video and uploading it to YouTube. Granted, it's free for people to look at all they want, but if someone takes that video, puts it on a CD and sells it, he is still violating the law.

Granted, they worked on the code of the hack. But none of the video there where made for to steal something. There are Hacker guide on youtube but they are taking down faster then they can upload it.

This is Myth we are talking about. So I'm gonna go with they don't publish under a liscence.

In that case, it's simple. The code of the crack is property of Myth.

In a police case, if a armed bank robber get busted. Won't the gun be taken by the authority? Can a criminal reclaim the gun he use in a criminal act? Can he sue the police for ownership? The hack is a tool, just like a pistol is for a bank robbery.

Well Blizzard and Square Enix apparently do, so why not Rockstar?

I'm curious, What did they do?

I don't know about Square Enix, but with Blizzard, no. Blizzard often incorporate fan works and mods into their games, but they still have to CREATE said themselves, using said works as inspiration. The exception is contests and competition where the submitted works are specifically said to become the property of the contest holder.

Now, I find myself again on the opposing team. I know right: "It in the fine print of the submission form." But here, it work that a fan did. I expect that he got his name in the credit and get a prize. Can't he brag being on the team that made (EXAMPLE) Diablo 3. That thing stink of: "Thank for doing our work now buzz off". Maybe it's just the way you say it. How about this: You would be included as a programmer of blizzard in the Upcoming game and win a sweet price instead of submission become the property of Blizzard S*ckers!!! LOLOLOLOL

If I write a small program that opens the game's executable, flips every 0 to 1 and every 1 to 0, I've created a program that modifies the executable. Who owns that program? I'll tell you who owns it. ME. What Myth did is make a program that does selective, targeted changes. They own it. They may not have any right to use it, but legally the DO OWN IT.

So by your logic, if i change all the name in the credit of a upcoming game for my own, that work (aka the game) will be mine and i have the right to sell it? Cool! Be on the lookout for STARCRAFT 2 by AKALISTOS ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!

So what are they going to do, sue? It's was not only illegal in the first place but they were distibuting it for free. If they want to complain Rockstar could just sue them to hell, right?

I already said that I don't fancy it being particularly enforceable. Rockstar could sue all they want, but like it or not, they wouldn't be likely to get very far with it; it'd be an excruciatingly long and horrid case with no useful end result.

They will always be hackers, i give you that much. But think about this for a sec. Myth must have a following. Crippling them would make sure they'll never do it again! Also, it can influence young hackers not to do it or else they will be sued for lost revenue and compensation.

Myth's case is better, in that regard, because unless a license exists that ALLOWS Rockstar to use the code commercially, they are not allowed to do it.

Yet, if it wall on freeware, they are ok.

However, if Rockstar were to ask Myth if they could use the code, the only appropriate response from Myth would be "Yes, you can use it, we appreciate you asking, just put us in the end credits of it".

If Rockstar could get in contact with Myth, they would have been sued... Or run over by a car, chainsaw, bludgeoned, Sniped, Mangled, Drown until Rockstar would have gotten 5 star and had to go to the nearest illegal garage and change the color of their car. Damn helicopters!

 

[Akalistos]

And no Rockstar aren't the pirates here, because slapping a clown hat on Michelangelo's David isn't making a new artwork, its just defacing an existing one.

Yes they are. As stated above, just because you write fanfiction, doesn't give the author of the original book the right to take YOUR writing, that is technically (from the law's prospective that is) unrelated, and sell it, without even mentioning you.

Yet, if it just a copy of the book, uploaded with your name on it, it not thief. I guess you can't see the other side of the medal here. Let me use your analogy for a min: Here we have a case of a nobody, rewriting all of the book he got onto a fanfics page. THe only change is that he replace the name of the author with his own. Hiding under a pseudonym to save him troubles with the laws. Years later, the original author see this and use this for the online market. An your telling me that the original author stole the work of the Fanfic writer? Isn't there a copyright law that protect that author or does he just need to take it like a man? Stealing a thief seems like a bigger crime than maiming children until they dies

Even if the crack was freeware (which it isn't)

Main Entry: free·ware
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-ˌwer\
Function: noun
Date: 1983

: software that is available for use at no cost or for a nominal usually voluntary fee.
(Thank You Merriam Webster [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freeware])

Rockstar would still be in the wrong for selling it. Sell the game, and link to where to get the no cd crack, that's fine, but selling another mans intelectual property isn't no matter how you look at it.

Answer me this than, please.

In a police case, if a armed bank robber get busted. Won't the gun be taken by the authority? Can a criminal reclaim the gun he use in a criminal act? Can he sue the police for ownership? The hack is a tool, just like a pistol is for a bank robbery.

 

[Zannah]

Yet, if it just a copy of the book, uploaded with your name on it, it not thief. I guess you can't see the other side of the medal here. Let me use your analogy for a min: Here we have a case of a nobody, rewriting all of the book he got onto a fanfics page. THe only change is that he replace the name of the author with his own. Hiding under a pseudonym to save him troubles with the laws. Years later, the original author see this and use this for the online market. An your telling me that the original author stole the work of the Fanfic writer? Isn't there a copyright law that protect that author or does he just need to take it like a man? Stealing a thief seems like a bigger crime than maiming children until they dies

The crack is an individual piece of code, in no whatsoever (legal) relationship, to that, which might have or might not have been stolen. Wether the Hackers have written a program to do their laundry, or killed the mothers of every single rockstar employee, does not matter. at. all.
They wrote a piece of code. It's theirs. Rockstar has no right to take that, and sell it.
(And since a lot of want-to-be-lawsuits fail to grasp this - An eye for an eye is NO acceptable legal practice. If you steal someones car, he's not allowed to steal your hat in return. Laws don't work that way.

Main Entry: free·ware
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-ˌwer\
Function: noun
Date: 1983

: software that is available for use at no cost or for a nominal usually voluntary fee.
(Thank You Merriam Webster [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freeware])

Where exactly does this support your point, that corporate monkeys may drop by at any time, take the freeware, label it theirs, and sell it for money? (Again, copyright law doesn't work that way)

Answer me this than, please.
In a police case, if a armed bank robber get busted. Won't the gun be taken by the authority? Can a criminal reclaim the gun he use in a criminal act? Can he sue the police for ownership? The hack is a tool, just like a pistol is for a bank robbery.

That analogy is, excuse me, plain bullshit.
In your example, the gun is an evidence, needed for court. Rockstar however has neither the authority of a police, nor are they within their rights to hold courts (or confiscate other peoples property. If you take other peoples property, without being allowed too, that is STEALING). And besides, how many policemen do you see, legally selling confiscated guns at the local 'used weapons bazar'?

 

[DamienHell]

Rockstar just profited off Myths code without paying them, Myth could sue rockstar right now.

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Hahahaha! Painfull, Rockstar
Anyway, now no one can say nothing good ever came out of pirating
It saved the developer some time and money not having to remove their own DRM, rofl!

 

[Akalistos]

Yet, if it just a copy of the book, uploaded with your name on it, it not thief. I guess you can't see the other side of the medal here. Let me use your analogy for a min: Here we have a case of a nobody, rewriting all of the book he got onto a fanfics page. THe only change is that he replace the name of the author with his own. Hiding under a pseudonym to save him troubles with the laws. Years later, the original author see this and use this for the online market. An your telling me that the original author stole the work of the Fanfic writer? Isn't there a copyright law that protect that author or does he just need to take it like a man? Stealing a thief seems like a bigger crime than maiming children until they dies

The crack is an individual piece of code, in no whatsoever (legal) relationship, to that, which might have or might not have been stolen. Wether the Hackers have written a program to do their laundry, or killed the mothers of every single rockstar employee, does not matter. at. all.
They wrote a piece of code. It's theirs. Rockstar has no right to take that, and sell it.
(And since a lot of want-to-be-lawsuits fail to grasp this - An eye for an eye is NO acceptable legal practice. If you steal someones car, he's not allowed to steal your hat in return. Laws don't work that way.

Main Entry: free·ware
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-ˌwer\
Function: noun
Date: 1983

: software that is available for use at no cost or for a nominal usually voluntary fee.
(Thank You Merriam Webster [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freeware])

Where exactly does this support your point, that corporate monkeys may drop by at any time, take the freeware, label it theirs, and sell it for money? (Again, copyright law doesn't work that way)

Answer me this than, please.
In a police case, if a armed bank robber get busted. Won't the gun be taken by the authority? Can a criminal reclaim the gun he use in a criminal act? Can he sue the police for ownership? The hack is a tool, just like a pistol is for a bank robbery.

That analogy is, excuse me, plain bullshit.
In your example, the gun is an evidence, needed for court. Rockstar however has neither the authority of a police, nor are they within their rights to hold courts (or confiscate other peoples property. If you take other peoples property, without being allowed too, that is STEALING). And besides, how many policemen do you see, legally selling confiscated guns at the local 'used weapons bazar'?

You know what bullshit? People that defend Myth on the fact that Rockstar take their code. But nobody said anything against Myth. Wake up call everybody, MYTH's group are the bad guys. The one you fight in video-game. The guy that stole your girlfriend in Kung-Fu. Quote me out of context or just the bit you want to make you look smart all you want, it doesn't change the fact. YES, that code is a freeware. So, if they so choose, they don't have to give a dime to Myth like i suspect most of you didn't when you stole the game. It a great way to get back the money those bastard stole from them. It hard to understand because none of you are a game programmer or participate in a release of a game that bigger that what you found on newgrounds. Also, you can't justify the action of Myth base on what happen here. How could they know they would become victim themselves. No matter how you look, it a company vs a bunch of thief. They hacked countless other game, and doing so with that code you are so eager to protect. Where are the right of Rockstar when that happen?

You don't care... I know. You think because being a big company, they can stand thief like a mosquito's bite. No matter who you stole (except thief), it not OK to steal. Why i draw the line here? Because Max Payne 2 wasn't a freeware. They code were. They didn't have the right to insert their own code inside and distribute it free. Therefore, i wish those guy get sued by Rockstar and end up in the street. And i don't care about the code really, if you bought the game with the hack didn't it work anyways? This isn't a underdog story, it a group that had the ball to take what was stolen from them in a inventive way and Rockstar.... I SALUTE YOU!

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

And no Rockstar aren't the pirates here, because slapping a clown hat on Michelangelo's David isn't making a new artwork, its just defacing an existing one.

Yes they are. As stated above, just because you write fanfiction, doesn't give the author of the original book the right to take YOUR writing, that is technically (from the law's prospective that is) unrelated, and sell it, without even mentioning you.
Even if the crack was freeware (which it isn't), Rockstar would still be in the wrong for selling it. Sell the game, and link to where to get the no cd crack, that's fine, but selling another mans intelectual property isn't no matter how you look at it.

Firstly I didn't read that and secondly THIS IS NOT FAN FICTION. Nor is it really a mod, Garrys Mod is a mod, giving the characters genitals is a mod, replacing all the weapons with, I don't know, popsicles is a mod. This is giving people the capacity to play the game without paying the people who actually made it, which is an endorsement of piracy, which I don't look kindly upon.

 

[KingPiccolOwned]

You know what bullshit? People that defend Myth on the fact that Rockstar take their code. But nobody said anything against Myth. Wake up call everybody, MYth's group are the bad guys. The one you fight in videogame. The guy that stole your girlfriend in Kung-Fu. Quote me out of context or just the bit you want to make you look smart all you want, it doesn't change the fact. YES, that code is a freeware. So, if they so choose, they don't have to give a dime to Myth like i suspect most of you didn't when you stole the game. It a great way to get back the money those bastard stole from them. It hard to understand because none of you are a game programmer or participate in a release of a game that bigger that what you found on newgrounds. Also, you can't justify the action of Myth base on what happen here. How could they know they would become victim themselves. No matter how you look, it a company vs a bunch of thief. They hacked countless other game, and doing so with that code you are so eager to protect. Where are the right or Rockstar when that happen?

You don't care... I know. You think because being a big company, they can stand thief like a mosquito's bite. No matter who you stole (exept thief), it not ok to steal. Why i draw the line here? Because Max Payne 2 wasn't a freeware. They code were. They didn't have the right to insert their own code inside and distribute it free. THerefore, i wish those guy get sued by Rockstar and end up in the street. And i don't care about the code really, if you bought the game with the hack didn't it work anyways? This isn't a underdog story, it a group that had the ball to take what was stolen from them in a inventive way and Rockstar.... I SALUTE YOU!

You sir or madam have said it all here is a cookie.

 

[Akalistos]

You know what bullshit? People that defend Myth on the fact that Rockstar take their code. But nobody said anything against Myth. Wake up call everybody, MYth's group are the bad guys. The one you fight in videogame. The guy that stole your girlfriend in Kung-Fu. Quote me out of context or just the bit you want to make you look smart all you want, it doesn't change the fact. YES, that code is a freeware. So, if they so choose, they don't have to give a dime to Myth like i suspect most of you didn't when you stole the game. It a great way to get back the money those bastard stole from them. It hard to understand because none of you are a game programmer or participate in a release of a game that bigger that what you found on newgrounds. Also, you can't justify the action of Myth base on what happen here. How could they know they would become victim themselves. No matter how you look, it a company vs a bunch of thief. They hacked countless other game, and doing so with that code you are so eager to protect. Where are the right or Rockstar when that happen?

You don't care... I know. You think because being a big company, they can stand thief like a mosquito's bite. No matter who you stole (exept thief), it not ok to steal. Why i draw the line here? Because Max Payne 2 wasn't a freeware. They code were. They didn't have the right to insert their own code inside and distribute it free. THerefore, i wish those guy get sued by Rockstar and end up in the street. And i don't care about the code really, if you bought the game with the hack didn't it work anyways? This isn't a underdog story, it a group that had the ball to take what was stolen from them in a inventive way and Rockstar.... I SALUTE YOU!

You sir or madam have said it all here is a cookie.

Thank, i appreciate the support. Here some for you:

 

[Arenari]

Congratulations Rockstar for (headdesk) being (headdesk) so (headdesk) freaking (headdesk) STUPID!!!!!!

 

[Zannah]

Firstly I didn't read that and secondly THIS IS NOT FAN FICTION. Nor is it really a mod, Garrys Mod is a mod, giving the characters genitals is a mod, replacing all the weapons with, I don't know, popsicles is a mod. This is giving people the capacity to play the game without paying the people who actually made it, which is an endorsement of piracy, which I don't look kindly upon.

And once again. The Copyright law doesn't care, if the piece of code rockstar stole is the future skynet and will kill us all, or a new css-soundfile. It. doesn't. matter. It is an individual piece of code, which no matter it's purpose, can't be taken without breaking the law.

You know what bullshit? People that defend Myth on the fact that Rockstar take their code. But nobody said anything against Myth. Wake up call everybody, MYTH's group are the bad guys. The one you fight in video-game. The guy that stole your girlfriend in Kung-Fu. Quote me out of context or just the bit you want to make you look smart all you want, it doesn't change the fact. YES, that code is a freeware. So, if they so choose, they don't have to give a dime to Myth like i suspect most of you didn't when you stole the game. It a great way to get back the money those bastard stole from them. It hard to understand because none of you are a game programmer or participate in a release of a game that bigger that what you found on newgrounds. Also, you can't justify the action of Myth base on what happen here. How could they know they would become victim themselves. No matter how you look, it a company vs a bunch of thief. They hacked countless other game, and doing so with that code you are so eager to protect. Where are the right of Rockstar when that happen?

Yes, you don't like pirates. We figured that out, so did my plush animals and the man in the moon. It doesn't make your argument any more relevant. I never said pirating max payne wasn't a breach of copyright law. What I am saying, is that Rockstar, by doing the exact same myth did, only WORSE, Rockstar are no better, then the people you hate so passionate.
And one again, 'you stole from me, now I make nick all your stuff' isn't covered by the law. Might be some romantic fantasy of zorroesque revenge you have there, but that doesn't make rockstars actions any less illegal.
(Oh and just to shoot the 'you're no programmer, you'd be angry too' argument in the leg once and for all - my boyfriend is an author and we both fund our studies with working on small movie productions (A business you might realize, that falls victim to pirates even more than the games industry). If there was any reason to get angry at pirates, I would have plenty of it, no?)

You don't care... I know. You think because being a big company, they can stand thief like a mosquito's bite. No matter who you stole (except thief), it not OK to steal. Why i draw the line here? Because Max Payne 2 wasn't a freeware. They code were. They didn't have the right to insert their own code inside and distribute it free. Therefore, i wish those guy get sued by Rockstar and end up in the street. And i don't care about the code really, if you bought the game with the hack didn't it work anyways? This isn't a underdog story, it a group that had the ball to take what was stolen from them in a inventive way and Rockstar.... I SALUTE YOU!

Neither your saluting to the exact same kind of thiefs you want to get 'sued out of their homes', nor your fantasies about how federal law works, are of any relevance to the fact, that taking a piece of code, and selling it without even asking the owner is not covered by those laws.