Rocksteady Studios Accused Of Failing To Deal With Sexual Harassment

[CriticalGaming]

It's not for us to judge whether or not it's inappropriate. The 10 women who worked there perceived it as inappropriate and offensive and sent a letter to the management (in 2018) stating as much.

Although judging from what's been going on in the gaming industry lately it wouldn't surprise me if it was inapproppriate.

Disagree. It IS for us to judge what is inappropriate or not. Otherwise one person can dictate whatever they want to find inappropriate or offensive on a whim.

There has to be some agreed upon thresh hold. Some line where everybody knows and agrees to not cross. Otherwise anyone at any time could move that line where ever they want whenever they feel like.

Without a set standard, or judging body what stops someone from making accusations against another employee at any time? Say you and another employee are up for the same promotion, what stops your co-working friend from making accusations against your opponent? What stops you from accusing your boss just because you dont like your boss?

If this continues, companies will have no choice but to simply record every word said in the building. Or simply not hire women. Which do you think will be the cheaper option? This behavior doesn't discourage discrimination, but encourages it. Have you ever heard of the phrase, "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen"? If I am an employeer with a dominatingly male staff, and other companies have history of getting issues when hiring women, then why would I ever take that risk?

So there needs to be some company guideline (which can change depending on the company) which outlines what can and cannot be done or spoken.

You of course could say, "just don't make any sexual comments at work, or don't be XYZ phobic, or whatever" But the problem with this is simply what is deemed inappropriate changes based on the person. See my example above about character artists talking about breast and ass design on a female character in the game. You could spin that to be sexually inappropriate.

Frankly the only solution might simply be to wire the building to record everything everyone says 100% of the time and we can all live in a controlled environment because a few people hate the world.

 

[Gordon_4]

So there needs to be some company guideline (which can change depending on the company) which outlines what can and cannot be done or spoken.

Those exist; they’re called codes of conduct and any organisation not being run by complete fucking muppets has one.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Those exist; they’re called codes of conduct and any organisation not being run by complete fucking muppets has one.

Typically those guidelines strictly dictate sexual harassment of the physical variety. But virtually none of those corporate policies discuss conversational limitations. Which is what apparently needs to happen now. Simply expanded that to limit conversations that can be had but how to you police that, when anyone can be offended by anything at any time?

 

[stroopwafel]

Typically those guidelines strictly dictate sexual harassment of the physical variety. But virtually none of those corporate policies discuss conversational limitations. Which is what apparently needs to happen now. Simply expanded that to limit conversations that can be had but how to you police that, when anyone can be offended by anything at any time?

It sounds more like botched approaches and jokes in poor taste of those employees than actual harassment. Those women could have just told those guys to fuck off but instead they try and hide behind some manager who needs to solve it for them. It's like bullying at school you can't hide behind regulations and protocols all the time. At one time you need to stand up for yourself and that is an important life lesson. Avoiding confrontation will only turn people more and more into vulnerable little snowflakes. I don't know what it is with that perpetual victim mentality. Really I've heard about women who considered it harassment if an unattractive guy even looked at her sideways. But if he's attractive? Destroy me please.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Disagree. It IS for us to judge what is inappropriate or not. Otherwise one person can dictate whatever they want to find inappropriate or offensive on a whim.

There has to be some agreed upon thresh hold. Some line where everybody knows and agrees to not cross. Otherwise anyone at any time could move that line where ever they want whenever they feel like.

Without a set standard, or judging body what stops someone from making accusations against another employee at any time? Say you and another employee are up for the same promotion, what stops your co-working friend from making accusations against your opponent? What stops you from accusing your boss just because you dont like your boss?

If this continues, companies will have no choice but to simply record every word said in the building. Or simply not hire women. Which do you think will be the cheaper option? This behavior doesn't discourage discrimination, but encourages it. Have you ever heard of the phrase, "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen"? If I am an employeer with a dominatingly male staff, and other companies have history of getting issues when hiring women, then why would I ever take that risk?

So there needs to be some company guideline (which can change depending on the company) which outlines what can and cannot be done or spoken.

You of course could say, "just don't make any sexual comments at work, or don't be XYZ phobic, or whatever" But the problem with this is simply what is deemed inappropriate changes based on the person. See my example above about character artists talking about breast and ass design on a female character in the game. You could spin that to be sexually inappropriate.

Frankly the only solution might simply be to wire the building to record everything everyone says 100% of the time and we can all live in a controlled environment because a few people hate the world.

If this continues? What continues - people addressing issues they have on the work floor? Why is this something to get so paranoid about? 10 people who worked at the same company during the same time period complained about inapproppriate and offensive behaviour and sent a letter to the management addressing this. Seriousy, what's the problem?!

 

[CriticalGaming]

If this continues? What continues - people addressing issues they have on the work floor? Why is this something to get so paranoid about? 10 people who worked at the same company during the same time period complained about inapproppriate and offensive behaviour and sent a letter to the management addressing this. Seriousy, what's the problem?!

The problem is context. What's the behavior? What was happening? Did they send 10 different letters, or did they get together and wrote 1 letter for 10 people?

10 different letters suggests a uniform problem that people are having issue with. 1 letter with 10 names on it sounds like 1 person having a problem and convincing 9 other people that they also have a problem when they may not.

Again the context of what's happening matters, it has too. Just because someone has a problem with it, doesn't make it wrong. So context needs to be shown. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. There should be fair assessment of what these folks considered offensive and inappropriate do you not agree?

 

[Casual Shinji]

The problem is context. What's the behavior? What was happening? Did they send 10 different letters, or did they get together and wrote 1 letter for 10 people?

10 different letters suggests a uniform problem that people are having issue with. 1 letter with 10 names on it sounds like 1 person having a problem and convincing 9 other people that they also have a problem when they may not.

Again the context of what's happening matters, it has too. Just because someone has a problem with it, doesn't make it wrong. So context needs to be shown. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. There should be fair assessment of what these folks considered offensive and inappropriate do you not agree?

The behaviour was stated and 10 people attest to it during the same time period. I think that's enough context to conclude there's a problem. Soooo, yeah.

 

[CriticalGaming]

The behaviour was stated and 10 people attest to it during the same time period. I think that's enough context to conclude there's a problem. Soooo, yeah.

The behavior was stated? Where? All I've seen is generic "Inappropriate behavior" that doesn't explain or cover anything. And it certainly doesn't make it legit automatically.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The behavior was stated? Where? All I've seen is generic "Inappropriate behavior" that doesn't explain or cover anything. And it certainly doesn't make it legit automatically.

The behaviour was stated in the article that's provided. Unless you're looking for literal audio recordings.

 

[Cicada 5]

Not buying their next game. I also feel it boring, old, and cliche tofight another evil or renegade Superman again. That's been done too many times already.

They're doing the evil Superman thing?!
I hate that, it's never been good, Superman wouldn't do that and also Superman>Batman, and it's always written by Batman fanbois that think Batman is the best and can't be beaten, ugh... I hate it already.

OT: But yeah that's pretty disappointing overall, it's good that this kind of stuff is getting exposed so that the problem can be dealt with, but it's also quite depressing seeing just how common this kind of behaviour is, anyway burn the establishment or something like that, whatever it's not even maddening enough for outrage, just depressing.

Seems to be more than just Supes tho. I have to say, it would be incredibly boring if the heroes were evil yet again. It would be way more interesting for the Squad to be as they are: bad guys doing bad things but for the government.

It hasn't been stated if Superman will be evil in the game. All we know so far is that the plot has Amanda Waller putting together a Suicide Squad to capture/kill the Justice League.

 

[Cicada 5]

Another day, another AAA studio gets accused of harassment.


Sometimes I can't help but wonder how much all of this is true, (as it seems to hit every single studio these days), and how much is manufactured outrage for headlines.



It is quotes like this that make be question. Because what's the context? You know if a group of character artists are designing catwoman or harley quinn or something and they are talking about making her tits right or fixing the shape of her ass, i wouldn't call that derogatory or even sexual remarks about women. It's artists trying to make a character look right. I assume the people making video games are adults and shouldn't be forced to use pre-school terms for body parts so that nobody can possibly get offended.

"unwanted advances" are absolutely a no go. But again....what's the context? If someone is asked out for drinks after work, it might be an unwanted advance but if the person takes a simple "no" for an answer and never bothers you again, then there is no harm there.

This seems like a story for the sake of it. Someone who's easily offended making acusations for the sake of making trouble.

Thankfully this doesn't seem like a Ubisoft level of scumbaggery. And from the looks of it, it's mostly verbal transgressions at worse. Which honestly.....meh.

Remember when "Sticks and stones could break your bones, but words would never hurt you". When did everyone's skin become so thin that the slightest thing could become a career ending offense? Do people just get off by getting other people fired for any little thing? (note if there are serious things that have occurred then I am very against that, I will never be against jokes though regardless of offensive content)

You seem to have already made up your mind that it's nothing worth taking seriously at all judging by this comment.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

You seem to have already made up your mind that it's nothing worth taking seriously at all judging by this comment.

Maybe if the news media did its fucking job and actually reported something other than vague uselessness meant to get clicks then we'd have something to base this on. Just because we refuse to follow the chant of, "Don't think, just consume product." doesn't mean we are not taking this seriously.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

“Sometimes you could see the surprise on their face when you said that’s not how women dress.”

Which is pretty funny to me as I don't know of many men who dress up as Bat's and prowl the rooftops at night

Was reading this earlier, thinking it explains so much of how women characters are presented in Arkham Knight. Like, it's not even subtle, they're all male-gazed up to the eyeballs with various fetishist pandering, fridged, trapped solely for motivation of men's games or just freaking annoying hollow caricatures. The writing mayhaps was on the walls. But it is a larger problem throughout society with certain power structures the way they are within workplaces, so this won't and shouldn't be the last revelation to come from the industry, or any others.

You have seen comics books before right?

Hell compared to new 52 Suicide Squad they actually toned down Harley. Lets also not forget new 52 Catwoman doing a striptease for Batman at one point.

Also you do have the option in Batman Arkham City to just walk away as Catwoman or go back to save Batman.

While the hypersexualization of the female characters isn't unique to the games, you could certainly tell they tried to squeeze as much out of these characters being hot woman as they could. Like, Poison Ivy's little plant panties were pretty outrageous from day-one. And Catwoman having her dialogue laced with an overly sultry tone was way too on the nose on top of being really fucking annoying. And Talia just looked like the most typical sexy teen popstar.

And yet

Spoiler: Arkham Knight spoiers

Poison Ivy literally saves the day in Arkham Knight and sacrifices herself to save the city. She gets a big hero moment and actually is given more character as she is shown to be sticking to her principals and refusing to join Scarecrow and the others in taking over Gotham. We also get a show of how capable Oracle is despite being in a wheelchair and how she leaves clues and tries to fight back plus the little romance thing she has going on

"including transphobic slurs, derogatory and sexually explicit remarks about women, and sexual harassment that included “unwanted advances, leering at parts of a woman’s body, and inappropriate comments in the office,” "

Do they have information on what their definition of these is?

yeh that's what I was wondering because there's a certain anime term that people keep claiming is transphobic which is highly up in the air because the argument for is it's used to try and make claims about Trans people trying to trick people (ignore that Kat Blaque has admitted to not being upfront with sexual partners before) while the anime community points out that no it's never actually been used towards actual Trans people and is more related to realistic cross dressers.

Not buying their next game. I also feel it boring, old, and cliche tofight another evil or renegade Superman again. That's been done too many times already.

They're doing the evil Superman thing?!
I hate that, it's never been good, Superman wouldn't do that and also Superman>Batman, and it's always written by Batman fanbois that think Batman is the best and can't be beaten, ugh... I hate it already.

OT: But yeah that's pretty disappointing overall, it's good that this kind of stuff is getting exposed so that the problem can be dealt with, but it's also quite depressing seeing just how common this kind of behaviour is, anyway burn the establishment or something like that, whatever it's not even maddening enough for outrage, just depressing.

I mean it's Suicide Squad so it could well be Good Superman

It's not for us to judge whether or not it's inappropriate. The 10 women who worked there perceived it as inappropriate and offensive and sent a letter to the management (in 2018) stating as much.

Although judging from what's been going on in the gaming industry lately it wouldn't surprise me if it was inapproppriate.

yeh but some people are easily offended.

Things I've seen people get seriously offended by:
A highly valued community content creator and partner of the game asking them questions about why they couldn't use a certain different technique in cutscenes.
A company refusing to give them more creative control.
A group of investors refusing to invest in a studio with 1 game to it's name and that game hadn't even broken even yet.
AAA companies not making $100 Million Walking simulators
Games having the option of male or female characters.
Being drunkenly propositioned in a lift after spending the night having Dollar bills shoved into their bra (and no this wasn't a stripper)
A company creating a game where you play city Guards
The founder of Atari getting an award
Interviewing only men for an article despite the article and interviews being based on who the studios chose to have do the interview not the interviewer.
People not taking kindly to them doxing a person with no evidence on twitter and not letting them freely accuse people and dox them without evidence


I'm sure much more has happened 2 if I could be bothered to look it up

 

[Nick Calandra]

Rocksteady released this today.


The problem with this is that there's no names attached, and we don't know the context in which it was written. Was it actually written by the women of the studio? We don't know. Was it written by the women of the studio and then looked over by PR and legal? We don't know.

Also turning off replies just looks bad in general, but I get it because Twitter likes to think they know everything that happened in situations nobody commenting on was involved in.

I legitimately ONLY want to hear from the people involved in the studio during those times and their accounts, not what Waypoint, or Polygon or Eurogamer or whatever think happened.

The Guardian article isn't great, because nobody went on the record and there's not a lot of info there to go on.

This video, however, is very detailed and narrows it down to allegedly one, two or just a few men in the studio that are the subject of these letters and complaints, but again, doesn't give names.


What I don't like about some of this stuff is that people make up their minds without all the facts, and when something comes out to challenge the allegations, it's immediately written off by most because it doesn't fit the accepted narrative.

Even this original Tweet is misleading, because Rocksteady and even the Guardian article itself say action WAS taken after the letter was submitted in 2018. They just didn't specifically say that the letter was addressed and that's because both parties agreed to keep it private.


So, if you're a journalist and want all the facts before making a judgment, you're called out for being on "both sides" when there really isn't a side in this if you're a journalist, there's the story and the facts. That's what people that report on this stuff seem to forget every time and it's super frustrating, because of course you can believe the victims of this stuff and still want the full story of what actually happened.

Kim's video is 100x better than the original Guardian article and lays out specific examples of things that happened, in detail. I believe her account, but the rest of it we need to know more about, including the meetings that happened following the submission of the letter and whether actual change happened and proof of that change from the studio.

And again, that's another detail we get from Kim's video, that the person involved in these allegations is still at the studio...

Cause what makes this complicated is that it seems both parties, the signers of the letter and Rocksteady, agreed to keep all this private, and now that it's leaked, Rocksteady is gonna have to do more than put out a unsolicited letter.

I do hope more people at the studio speak up to the issues so we can learn more about it.

 

[Cicada 5]

Maybe if the news media did its fucking job and actually reported something other than vague uselessness meant to get clicks then we'd have something to base this on. Just because we refuse to follow the chant of, "Don't think, just consume product." doesn't mean we are not taking this seriously.

There is nothing vague about the reports. I'm not sure what more you need short of a video recording of what happened. The details of the harassment could not be more clear.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I do hope more people at the studio speak up to the issues so we can learn more about it.

This is assuming that more people at the studio even have an issue. Which is the question at hand isn't it?


If you have a company of hundreds of people and only a couple of people come forward with a grievance that might only boil down to and easily offended personality, what can you really do?

If a small group of people have a problem with another small group of people. Does that mean one group should be fired? Which group? If you separated these two groups to different departments do you then have a problem of not addressing issues properly?

How can you judge if something was truly off-base when only a couple of people got upset by it. Rocksteady even says that 8/10 of the women with complaints still work for Rocksteady. Which begs another few questions? How bad is the behavior in question if the employees haven't left? Or maybe Rockseady DID make attempts to separate the offending parties so that their interactions are minimal and the offense effectively eliminated without having to destroy several careers over something that might not have even been that bad.

A bad read on someone and asking them out to dinner can be labeled offensive and inappropriate. Does that mean someone should lose their livelihood?

There is a possibility of this being a misunderstanding between a few people back in 2018, and internally they tried to resolve it, which seems to have worked because only 2 people involved have actually left the company and those two people might not have left due to being offended.

Basically it boils down to agreeing with you. Articles tend to lean heavily towards highlighting the victims in order to make a conflict more dire than it really is. People have conflicts in the work place all the time, people butt heads, personalities clash, and a company will never get anywhere by firing anyone and everyone who so much as murmurs something off-color in the presence of the wrong person. People simply do not walk on that much of eggshells at work, because ultimately people make friends with co-workers and once you are friends you stop guarding your words as tightly. And I don't believe people can function 100% of the time with a vice grip on their words for fear of offending someone.

Again if there is actual harassment or assault, then all bets are off and the offender should be removed 100%. Nothing revealed so far suggests anything on this level yet though.

 

[xmbts]

Is the "Aw shit, here we go again" meme too overplayed? I don't know how else to react to this stuff anymore.

 

[Gordon_4]

Is the "Aw shit, here we go again" meme too overplayed? I don't know how else to react to this stuff anymore.

If it is overplayed, we have only ourselves to blame for doing the same stupid shit over and over to invoke it.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

There is nothing vague about the reports. I'm not sure what more you need short of a video recording of what happened. The details of the harassment could not be more clear.

Based on what Nick added it clears things up a lot.

The article itself though was very vague.

 

[BrawlMan]

Seems to be more than just Supes tho. I have to say, it would be incredibly boring if the heroes were evil yet again. It would be way more interesting for the Squad to be as they are: bad guys doing bad things but for the government.

Makes it even more boring and trite.

It hasn't been stated if Superman will be evil in the game. All we know so far is that the plot has Amanda Waller putting together a Suicide Squad to capture/kill the Justice League.

I highly doubt it. And fuck Amanda Waller! Sick of her shit too!

I mean it's Suicide Squad so it could well be Good Superman

I still don't like the idea regardless.