Rogue One - Why was Vader seem so much more impressive than Prequel-era fighters?

[pookie101]

I'm surprised no one has drawn a direct comparison to a horror movie slasher film, because that was what that segment was truly like. In that moment Vader was Jason Vorheez with a Lightsaber Machete and it was pretty cool and horrifying. Can you imagine being the last person in that room, completely helpless?

i KNEW it reminded me of something and thats it exactly. even right down to putting his lightsaber through that last solder and the door

 

[Zontar]

Yeah, they did.

Snip

I'm not defending the Prequels, I'll take a dump on them any day of the week. But all they did was poison the period before the Originals took place, and only a small part of it at that given what BioWare, Obsidian and Dark Horse did with the thousand year long war between the Republic and the Sith Empire.

TFA on the other hand took the ending to Jedi and ruined it. Instead of all their hard work and character development leading to something, instead Luke became a little ***** and ran away at the first sign of trouble (in a way that makes no sense at all) without lifting a finger to try and fix the mess he'd made, Han and Chewie abandoned all the people they cared about and Laie became the leader of a resistance movement so laughably pathetic that even despite the fact it was being secretly backed by the major galactic power it pales in comprised to the Rebel Alliance even at its lowest point, with a star fleet comprised entirely of but a dozen outdated starfighters and not a single craft larger. Even a band of pirates harassing cargo haulers would be an impressive force compared to The Resistance.

And all that band of misfits that shouldn't even threaten a strategically useless outpost managed to take down the Death Star 3.0: Bigger, Stupider and Easier to Kill Edition because no one cared about the writing, of course that happened after the Republic got its capital we don't care about destroyed just like Disney killed the objectively superior Star Wars EU for the inferior Canon to rise.

While it's always possible TFA will turn out to be that really bad one (Rogue One was objectively better after all, but that isn't saying much of anything. A competently made movie will have that be true by default), unless for the final two they're actually willing to have the story make sense, have cohesion, have the antagonist feel actually threatening, and focus on a protagonist who actually has somewhere to go (Ray's arc is complete after all, nowhere to go from this point outside of answering a question no one cares about that exists only because they need something to fill the void the Hero's Journey would have filled had they not gone from start to finish with it in the first act of a 3 part story) then there isn't much hope of the sequel trilogy being anything more then just 3 parts trash with nostalgia goggles being the entire driving force behind the IP.

I'd literally take more prequels from Lucas then sit through more of the same like TFA. Lucas for all his faults at least tried to expand the setting instead of just doing a literal remake of previous movies in the franchise but with the soul that made said previous movies good to begin with removed. At least he tried something new, and even when he failed that failure was at least entertaining in its own right. TFA was just as bad as any prequel, but without the redeeming badness entertainment value and with the fucking over of the characters and setting as a whole to begin with.

The SWEU will for a long time remain the one true canon for me until Disney finally has the average quality of the new canon be at least 80% that of the EU. Given how it's at something like 40% with how much of it is legitimately trash and nothing of it is truly great, with not a single work reaching the level of the original movies or of the work of Zahn released as of yet. Though with Star Wars: Thrawn being written by Zahn, we might finally, after 3 years and far, far too many books, get a decent entry into the new canon.

Rebels is still trash and has nothing on Clone Wars though. It's clear by this point that will not change.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

HI SHE ruined/massively improved that scene for me because I can no longer watch it without hearing "What up, noobs?" in my head and giggling in a manner that I assume would make me look like a sociopath to anyone watching given what is happening on screen.

Side note: Why the heck is it that these new movies can make their robot characters have so much personality and life, yet all the other characters are so bland and wooden? I would think it was some kind of clever subversion(kinda like the robots of Futurama) but I don't think they are doing it on purpose.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

-snip-

So much wrongness here, let's just pick apart the juicy bits:

-snip-

TFA on the other hand took the ending to Jedi and ruined it.[/quote]
As opposed to the EU? Dear, just no. The EU was so obsessed with the Empire that it had the clone of the Emperor return with a interstellar cannon that could destroy planets. The EU also introduced the Mary Sue Yuuzhan Vong that somehow existed outside of the force and were intent on destroying the Galaxy, because it so desperately needed something for its' New Jedi Order to do and it had already been hyped through the roof. This to the point that Luke Skywalker (quote Lucas: "the most powerful force user in the galaxy") was suffering from the Worf Effect due to each new Jedi/Padawan/untrained force sensitive that showed up in the EU having to upstage him to show how they were totally the real deal. TFA was worse then that?

Instead of all their hard work and character development leading to something, instead Luke became a little ***** and ran away at the first sign of trouble (in a way that makes no sense at all) without lifting a finger to try and fix the mess he'd made

Being impulsive and acting rashly was always the Luke thing to do. Its' what he did on Tatooine, its' what he did during his training so he could confront Vader, it is what he did when he faced Vader by spacing himself. Luke feeling regret and doing something impulsive and ill-considered makes sense, especially if it is "hide so that I can't fail at training more force users".

Han and Chewie abandoned all the people they cared about

You realize that the movie makes it explicit that Han left because he couldn't be near Leia after Ben became Kylo, right? 'nuff said.

Laie became the leader of a resistance movement so laughably pathetic that even despite the fact it was being secretly backed by the major galactic power it pales in comprised to the Rebel Alliance even at its lowest point, with a star fleet comprised entirely of but a dozen outdated starfighters and not a single craft larger.

That we see on screen. We don't know the full strength of the Resistance, only that its' top leadership is being threatened by Starkiller base and that their deaths would be the end of the Resistance. The movie also implies that no one really believes the First Order to be an actual threat, hence why the Resistance operates on a shoestring.

And all that band of misfits that shouldn't even threaten a strategically useless outpost managed to take down the Death Star 3.0: Bigger, Stupider and Easier to Kill Edition because no one cared about the writing

You mean like in A New Hope, when a lesser amount of fighters managed to take down a moon-sized battle station that knew they were coming? TFA at least provides the excuse of a surprise attack and a ground party that enables the fighters to get a shot.

have the antagonist feel actually threatening

De-masked Ren's lack of menace is arguably plot point, but don't let that stop you.

Ray's arc is complete after all

You what now? It is about as complete as Luke's was in ANH. We know that he's force sensitive and he's achieved his immediate goal of joining the Rebellion, but we are still in the dark as to what he'll do with that force sensitivity (and the light saber he never used). Rey has joined the Resistance and found Luke, but her arc is about her learning the ways of the force, so all that's complete is the set up of her arc. She and Ren have also been set up as rivals and that has yet to play out.

I'd literally take more prequels from Lucas then sit through more of the same like TFA. Lucas for all his faults at least tried to expand the setting instead of just doing a literal remake of previous movies in the franchise but with the soul that made said previous movies good to begin with removed. At least he tried something new, and even when he failed that failure was at least entertaining in its own right.

He tried something new, lost the soul of his old work and burned miserably in the process. TFA might be threading water and revisiting old beats in some respects (though the extent of this is way exaggerated by grumpy internet denizens), but at least it understood what made ANH a good movie, unlike Episode I which couldn't decide what kind of movie it wanted to be or what its' focus was. And that was the best of the prequels.

I've got to say though that I am amused by how much shit you give TFA when most of the criticism comes from a lacking understanding of the actual plot and the remaining is shitting over it for things it did that ANH also did. What's good for the goose and all that.

 

[Silent Protagonist]

Ray's arc is complete after all

You what now? It is about as complete as Luke's was in ANH. We know that he's force sensitive and he's achieved his immediate goal of joining the Rebellion, but we are still in the dark as to what he'll do with that force sensitivity (and the light saber he never used). Rey has joined the Resistance and found Luke, but her arc is about her learning the ways of the force, so all that's complete is the set up of her arc. She and Ren have also been set up as rivals and that has yet to play out.

Rey doesn't need Luke to show her the ways of the force, she has already mastered them. She is so force sensitive that the force itself taught her everything from force powers she had never seen or even heard of to advanced lightsaber fighting techniques. She's a quick learner too given she had only known the force was more than a fairy tale for about 48 hours. If anything she has a thing or two to show him.

Maybe when she's done she can also give him a few pointers about being an ace pilot, having extensive knowledge of engineering, repair, and maintenance of complex machinery, hacking, having everyone you meet instantly like you, being really annoyed when people hold your hand while the area you are in is currently the target of a series of air strikes, and never displaying any emotions.

 

[Zontar]

. The EU was so obsessed with the Empire that it had the clone of the Emperor return with a interstellar cannon that could destroy planets.

As opposed to the interstellar cannon that could destroy entire systems that we got in TFA?

The state of the Empire in the EU actually made sense. 5 years after the battle of Endor the Empire's fragments collectively are more powerful then the New Republic, with the New Republic only gaining ground due to the Imperial Civil War between different Moffs and Admirals. It took 15 years after the Battle of Endor for both the New Republic to get into a strong enough position to make a peace treaty and for the Imperial Admiralty to purge the warlords who would oppose such a peace to occur. 15 years and a peace treaty. That makes sense.

You know what happened in canon? 1 year after the Battle of Endor the Empire surrendered. Not a peace treaty, not a cease fire, surrendered. The only reason the Imperial Remnant in canon is a Republic puppet state instead of being annexed was because the New Republic didn't have the manpower to occupy the worlds loyal to the Empire. 1 year, 1 fucking year, after most of the Rebel fleet was annihilated and should have, with only 1 year to recover, been smashed to pieces at Jakku just from sheer numbers. And then the First Order was formed when the Imperial Navy realised "wait a minute, we've got then outgunned and outnumbered, that's bullshit" and decided to take off for uncharted space because I guess someone at Disney is a Battletech fan who likes the Clans.

TFA was worse then that?

Yes. A supercharged Galaxy Gun built by a nation so small most didn't believe it even existed had said Galaxy Gun taken down by a dozen pilots because its weakness was not only the same as its two predecessors but its location was not even a secret.

Being impulsive and acting rashly was always the Luke thing to do.

And that was always as a means to the ends of doing the right thing. It would have actually made sense if Luke had taken the New Jedi Order with him to train them away from the influence of the Republic and the Imperial Remnant, but instead he just ran away in a move completely out of character with how he was portrayed in the original trilogy.

You realize that the movie makes it explicit that Han left because he couldn't be near Leia after Ben became Kylo, right? 'nuff said.

Which is fucking bullshit as an in-universe explanation and exists only to justify a general who had gotten far beyond the point of returning to crime to do just that only to give reason for why he and Chewie where hunting for the Falcon, a ship they never would have lost to begin with and had countless ways of justifying the two being on Jakku with the ship if the writers had actually cared.

That we see on screen. We don't know the full strength of the Resistance, only that its' top leadership is being threatened by Starkiller base and that their deaths would be the end of the Resistance. The movie also implies that no one really believes the First Order to be an actual threat, hence why the Resistance operates on a shoestring.

You're telling me that despite explicitly having official support from The Republic they are so lacking in resources and manpower that their entire starfleet is explicitly less then two dozen outdated starfighters, something Leia's own personal fortune alone would have been more then enough to buy multiple times over?

Even if it was just her own personal band of mercenaries with no other support they'd still be smaller then one could justify and would be so small the First Order wouldn't even recognise them as anything more then another irrelevant band of pirates with delusions of grandeur who don't even have a proper ship. The Ghost was more of a threat then The Resistance.

You mean like in A New Hope, when a lesser amount of fighters managed to take down a moon-sized battle station that knew they were coming? TFA at least provides the excuse of a surprise attack and a ground party that enables the fighters to get a shot.

A New Hope was also a hail mary throw by the Rebel Alliance where they threw every fighter and bomber they had into a hopeless last stand that had a 95% mortality rate after a million to one shot by a force sensitive took down an otherwise indestructible battle station.

Rogue One retconned this into being every fighter and bomber they had after their raid on the outpost the Death Star was designed at and the Battle of Scarif, at which most of the Rebel fleet that wasn't just fighter sized craft where destroyed and most of the rest damaged. And even that changed the critical design flaw as being an intentional part of the design for such an attack.

TFA had an even larger battle station had the literal same design flaw that was exploited in the same way but with an even smaller force against a more heavily defended station. One which should have known they where coming just by virtue of the shield being down (and the fact Phasma was willing to take it down is bullshit, as is the fact she alone could instead of it requiring multiple locations to independently do it together).

De-masked Ren's lack of menace is arguably plot point, but don't let that stop you.

It's a weak plot point. He shouldn't have taken his mask off until his confrontation with Han. In fact him being a pretty boy emo ***** in that one scene alone would have worked. Hell remove the interrogation scene and have the lightsaber battle have the two characters change their place in the script for that scene and he's actually be a decent villain instead of the laughing stock he is.

You what now? It is about as complete as Luke's was in ANH.

No it isn't. Luke didn't know shit about how to use the force, he didn't know shit about how to fight, he didn't even know how to properly use a blaster. All he had going for him was that he was a good pilot and was starting to learn the ways of the force.

Ray was already a good fighter by the start of the movie, she was an ace fighter pilot equivalent before ever setting foot in a cockpit, and 5 minutes after learning of the existence of the force she's already using it at the same level that a master would in previous movies, and this culminated in her defeating the villain of the movie in their head of fight. She has nowhere left to go. She knows how to use the force as well as masters do already, she already is a better fighter then her nemesis, she's already an ace fighter pilot, to be blunt there's a reason why those who understand how characters are supposed to be made called her a Mary Sue and those who don't understand that a female character who's perfect is a bad character pretended that fact isn't true.

He tried something new, lost the soul of his old work and burned miserably in the process. TFA might be threading water and revisiting old beats in some respects (though the extent of this is way exaggerated by grumpy internet denizens), but at least it understood what made ANH a good movie, unlike Episode I which couldn't decide what kind of movie it wanted to be or what its' focus was. And that was the best of the prequels.

If TFA understood what made ANH a good movie then why the hell did it gut all that stuff out and only leave what didn't work well in it? Why didn't scenes logically flow from one to the next? Why did characters have no consistency to them (like a man who wanted to run away from the fight because he doesn't want to kill anyone then in the next scene gun down unarmed deck hands who posed no threat to him, or the poor starving scavenger who had enough time to learn how to maintain ships she never had reason to work on, pilot things she never touched or languages of species she's never met)? Why wasn't the villain's goal and motivation made clear, or hell even what their position was given in ANH we at least knew the Empire was large and in charge while the Rebels where a small group resisting them. Can't even pretend anything on screen explains the relationship between the Republic, the Resistance and the New Order. I only even know the Imperial Remnant exists because of other sources, and that's not even getting started on the fact that's what you need to understand the totality of the relationship the powers have to each other is, to say nothing of the villain's motivations.

I've got to say though that I am amused by how much shit you give TFA when most of the criticism comes from a lacking understanding of the actual plot and the remaining is shitting over it for things it did that ANH also did. What's good for the goose and all that.

Actually the more one thinks about the plot of TFA the less sense the whole damn thing makes and the more clear it is no one's actions make any sense at all and YouTubers like RedLetterMedia and E;R put more thought into their analysis of the movie then the writers did into the script. Though in all fairness I think Disney corporate likely had a heavy hand in how bland and bad the movie's story was. I'm 90% sure the movie was doomed to be shit because of that alone and whether it was the case or not doesn't change the fact it was of comparable quality to the prequels no matter how shiny the special effects used to distract people from that fact where. As someone who does not care about the quality of effects that stuff never works to distract me from what I'm really there for.

 

[Zontar]

Rogue One was a mess.

That doesn't mean my statement about it being better then TFA is wrong. Both our claims can be true at the same time and I'd say both are given I won't disagree with the claim Rogue One is a mess.

If I were Disney, I would have ignored the expanded universe too. Their goal should be to make a good story, not to incorporate the stories that have been written over the decades into a work that's made redundant by the source materials. I know little of the Thrawn trilogy, but I dislike the idea of Leia having twins, as if all Skywalkers have to have twins, and of Luke's story continuing. He had his character arc. His friends too. Let someone else be the hero. Thrawn also seems overpowered, controlling an entire army with the Force.

Yes it makes sense that Disney created a new canon, but you'd think they'd take what worked and what was loved in the old EU and bring that over. One could argue that is happening but given how many books and comics the new continuity launched with and how little from the old EU was brought over, coupled with the fact it's only recently the biggest villain of the EU has begun to show his face the pace is slower then it should be.

Thrawn should have been if not the big bad of the sequel trilogy then at least one of the villains who was there. Sure, some of the stories overblow his reputation (this even becomes a joke in-canon) but he was the best written villain the IP has had since it started. I'd also like to point out he wasn't force sensitive, him menace came from his tactical abilities such as creating the Marg Sabl (before it was retconned as being his popularising its use) and that when Leia had her twins the prequels had not retconned Luke and Leia as being twins instead of her being the older one by years.

I don't want a repeat of Vader

We don't need a repeat of Vader. But if we're going to get a Vader wannabe, then one with a halfway decent execution would have been nice. And if he wasn't the antagonist of the movie, then the organisation of the New Order itself was given it certainly wasn't Phasma, Hux or Snock.

Ray's arc is complete? I don't know about that.

She's using the force like a master, already defeated her nemesis and is basically perfect at everything she tries. She's got nowhere left to grow as a character unless you consider her confused fishface she kept making something that she needs to grow out of. Though I think that was more a case of bad acting and/or bad directing then a part of an arc.

Maybe Luke doesn't have the power to take on Snoke alone, who could be ancient. The legacy of his family has taught him that the Jedi way is flawed. He is trying to fix the mess he made, which is why he searched for the first Jedi temple. I don't like the emotionless monks the Jedi became in the prequels, so I'm looking forward to Luke hopefully training a new order of Force users, a better one. Training another generation of Jedi would be retarded after what happened to his father and nephew.

I'm pretty sure that most of his students where not messed up lunatics before the one messed up lunatic slaughtered them all. And if he did run away to try and figure out what he did wrong before trying again, the movie did nothing to imply that in the slightest. Hell it was just shy of explicit in painting him as wanting someone to come after him given that stupid map which makes no sense if you think about it at all.

I disagree. Like I said, the prequels are rather pointless for focusing so much on Anakin, whose story we already knew. The end feels unrewarding. I thought Episode I benefited from focusing less on Anakin. I recently rewatched the prequels. Episode II and III were letdowns. I wrote a little about them.

I'm not defending the prequels. I'm just pointing out TFA is on their (low) level.

 

[Queen Michael]

It's exactly because he doesn't move around as much as the prequel fighters.

They went all Cirque du Soleil every time there was a fight. Vader doesn't need to.

 

[Zontar]

Also, how are the new X-Wings outdated?

In canon the very reason they've been supplied to the Resistance is because they're outdated models compared to the modern ones being used by the Republic. Don't ask me the logic of how a fighter developed after episode 6 is already outdated by episode 7 30 years later, but then it's not as if we see any Clone War era fighter craft during the Original period.

 

[Madner Kami]

Spoilers below.

So, at the end of the latest Star Wars movie, Rogue One, we get a truly memorable moment that has, perhaps gone down as audience's favourite scene of the entire film; Darth Vader, strolling down a hallway while slaughtering every Rebel in his path. It's a gripping and thoroughly enjoyable moment, reminding everybody watching why this guy has gone down as one of the truly great villains of cinema. He says nothing, yet we know just from looking that he's an unstoppable force of destruction, with the good guys unable to do anything to halt his advance.

And yet, as I watched it, I couldn't help but feel something odd. The Prequels, while certainly flawed, nevertheless had spectacular fight scenes and choreography, creating fighters that appeared to be of a calibre that simply could not be matched. The fluidity of their movements, the style of their lightsaber duels, the way they flipped and kicked and jumped, just made the fights of the original trilogy looks like childsplay by comparison.

And yet, here was Vader, fighting in a manner that was far more restrained and basic than those of the Prequel-era, yet he, for whatever reason, seemed to come across as not only more intimidating, but also like an overall better fighter than those who came before. This is what struck me as odd because those who fought and duelled in the Prequels were clearly made to appear as though they had skill that far outmatched those of the OT, and in a lot of ways, they did. But even so, there was just something about the more simple way Vader fought in Rogue One that just seemed to overshadow those more choreographed fights.

Do you agree? Disagree? Or perhaps share some other viewpoint I had not considered?

It's fairly simple and you already stated why: The prequel-fights are either against CG-robots or coreographed fights that are, in essence, a complicated sequence of two or more people dancing with each other with swords in their hands. Vader, in that scene, fought to kill.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

See, the thing is, all those lightsaber fights we see in the prequels are against other lightsaber experts. The way lightsabers work, and by extension lightsaber duels, is that the Force guides your movements. It's been described as seeing into the future in a certain way, where you can sense your opponent's move a brief moment before he makes it and the Force guides you to block, dodge, or counter attack.

You made me realize that everyone in "For Honor" is using the force.

<_<

Well, it is in all living things, so... ;-)

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

I feel they made him far more menacing as a means of redeeming him as a badass/ villain once again due to this in the prequel

Well that's how my bro see it. I mean remember to those who actually went to watch A New Hope at the 80's, Vader was such an intimadating character back then!

I know everyone gives that scene shit but it really does show the final phase in Anakin/Vader's fall from grace, the realization of just how royally he fucked up and how he has damned everyone in his life not named Palatine.
As the little green midget put it:

I mean, I get why it's hated, but like with Kylo Ren, I kinda like how they remind that there is something human behind that mask.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Snip

As I've heard from others, Vader changed his combat style after he was cyberneticized. He's encased in a sturdy heat-resistant suit of armor which increases strength, but makes him heavier. It's harder to do the same stuff he did when his body was unencumbered. So, because of his dramatic life change, he altered his way of doing things, moving from the swift killing machine to the ever-intimidating and unstoppable juggernaut of the Empire.

Rogue One is great stuff.

Yeah, it's really clear in stuff like Star Wars: Rebels where he barely moves his legs when swinging and why a lot his attacks have a slightly stiff feel to them.
It's totally fucking badass though and, if they actually do put Star Wars characters into Mahvel Vs Capcom: Infinite, I want Vader to have that same style in his animations and moves.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Also, how are the new X-Wings outdated? We've been using the same military helicopters and fighter jets for thirty to forty years. The F-16 and Black Hawk are still in service after forty years.

Could be a case in advances being made in that field after the Empire fell, or rather that Empire plans that were once private were made public.
Besides, The First Order managed to improve the Death Star to become the RYNO from Ratchet and Clank so there might have been more advances in that universe's technology then you'd think.

 

[Zontar]

Also, how are the new X-Wings outdated? We've been using the same military helicopters and fighter jets for thirty to forty years. The F-16 and Black Hawk are still in service after forty years.

Could be a case in advances being made in that field after the Empire fell, or rather that Empire plans that were once private were made public.
Besides, The First Order managed to improve the Death Star to become the RYNO from Ratchet and Clank so there might have been more advances in that universe's technology then you'd think.

The galaxy advanced more in the 50 years after the rise and fall of the Empire then in the 5000 years before that.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

The galaxy advanced more in the 50 years after the rise and fall of the Empire then in the 5000 years before that.

Possibly? I would say that we advanced more in the last century technology wise then we did in the 1000 years before that in real life.
Add in with the fact that the Empire could have been hoarding technology en mass once they were in power to stay that way and it's possible that the peace after the original trilogy was one full f technological advancement.

Not sure if it's the case or not, just being devil's advocate

 

[Zontar]

The galaxy advanced more in the 50 years after the rise and fall of the Empire then in the 5000 years before that.

Possibly? I would say that we advanced more in the last century technology wise then we did in the 1000 years before that in real life.
Add in with the fact that the Empire could have been hoarding technology en mass once they were in power to stay that way and it's possible that the peace after the original trilogy was one full f technological advancement.

Not sure if it's the case or not, just being devil's advocate

While the Empire did try to hoard technology (the X-wing was originally commissioned as an Imperial space superiority fighter before those who designed it defected after all) it should be noted that they even had technology to hoard in the first place. That isn't something the Old Republic could claim, as between the Great Hyperspace War all the way to the end of the Clone Wars the speed at which technology advanced was so slow one not only can't identify the century something was made without the use of an archive, one couldn't even identify the millennium it was made.

Hell over the multiple centuries that saw conflict between the Old Republic and the Sith Empire, including a decades long war, decade long Cold War and another decade long period of warfare both between the two and the Eternal Empire, technological progress was so slow that the first ships built by the Sith Empire 300 years before the start of that warfare in the first initial phase of construction of the grand Sith Imperial Navy where indistinguishable from the latest fresh off the line vessels at the death of the Sith Empire, and Republic warships where similarly impossible to notice change for.

Hell just compare the Hammerhead-class cruiser from 4,000 years before the Battle of Yavin:

to the Hammerhead Corvette from during the period of the Battle of Yavin:

Hell, the Hammerhead-class cruiser was a mainstay of Republic military vessels for nearly 3,000 years before finally being phased out, and even then they still could be found in service amongst local Defence Forces even in the dying days of the Clone Wars.