Romance with NPC's - Your thoughts?

[thejboy88]

As most of us know, many games give you the option of forming a romance with non-player characters. Some games can have it be with anyone, like the Sims or the Fable games, whilst other have it be with a specific set of characters, like in Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

I've had my ups and downs with such romances over the years, liking some whilst hating others, both in terms of how well I think it's used in the game or just because of the characters themselves.

But I wanted to get a feel for how those in the Escapist felt about the whole thing, so I'd like you to give your thoughts on romances with NPC characters, whether you like/dislike them and what your reasons are.

And I apologize in advance if this is a thread that's been done before.

 

[BQE]

I think it's been used to varying degrees of success. In my experience the romance arc in Dragon Age 2 was compelling and influenced the worth I put into a character (Go Team Merrill!). I don't usually get immersed in the wooden love plots of most games, but I grew especially fond of the elf.

To me, some particular example of games with particularly abhorrent love plots are Divinity: Dragon Commander and Agarest. These games shove these arcs into your face with the grace and tact of an ICBM to the point it's pratically revolting. The reason most love plots are later in games is because this allows you time to establish a rapport with the potential love interest as the game player and the character in game. Any game that attempts to browbeat affection into is generally offputting to most. I can safely say that I've more than a few Escapists lament a story telling them that they love somebody.

 

[Mikejames]

I thought Mass Effect and Dragon Age's potential for them was fine from a characterization stand point.
Games like Fable and Skyrim's take on them with bugger all difference between the NPCS doesn't really have much point.

As for games where it's not an optional part of the story? Depends on the game's overall writing of it I suppose.
Plenty of variance between taking time with character development and shoehorning a romance scene in for the last five minutes.

 

[kazann]

I think RPGs do this best, Baldurs gate and PST both did it, but did it without holding your hand and having some stupid little heart symbol next to the text (Dragon age 2).

In fact, ive said this before, but this is one of the biggest reasons why Bethesda games suck IMO - no, not because you cant romance an NPC, but because they lack any character development and emotion, youre thrown into a world full of cardboard NPCs.

If done appropriately, (BG, PST and DAO) romance with NPCs can not only add great character depth that can be weaved into the narrative, but allows for a whole list of doors to open for the developers.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't think it works well with blank or player-created characters. A romance should hinge on the interactions between two (or more) characters, yeah? Replace one of those characters with a generic and undefined 'Hero Goes Here' cutout and that's half the potential straight down the drain.

Also, having a player avatar involved inevitably turns it into an exercise in ego-stroking. "Ohhh yes, Mr Totally Not A Sweaty Nerd, you were the right one for me all along! How could I not see it?!" After all, you can't leave those players feeling like anything other than a mega-manly badass or they might not buy the sequel.

The Mass Effect romances exemplify this well. They certainly had their good moments and got a few "aww"s out of me, but they were pretty trite and sorta cheapened the characters at times.

Oh, as for romances with random non-characterized NPCs a la Fable and Skyrim, I don't even know why they bother. The only reason I can think of for including that sort of thing is as a gameplay mechanic, like the marriages in Crusader Kings, but that's not a "romance".

 

[BQE]

I don't think it works well with blank or player-created characters. A romance should hinge on the interactions between two (or more) characters, yeah? Replace one of those characters with a generic and undefined 'Hero Goes Here' cutout and that's half the potential straight down the drain.

Also, having a player avatar involved inevitably turns it into an exercise in ego-stroking. "Ohhh yes, Mr Totally Not A Sweaty Nerd, you were the right one for me all along! How could I not see it?!" After all, you can't leave those players feeling like anything other than a mega-manly badass or they might not buy the sequel.

The Mass Effect romances exemplify this well. They certainly had their good moments and got a few "aww"s out of me, but they were pretty trite and sorta cheapened the characters at times.

I'm always gladdened by your input Zhukov. Might I pose a counter-arguement though? Since you didn't list any concrete examples in the first premise, I'll assume we're talking about Mass Effect. I would say that the freedom in a game such as this is more likened to two side-by-side minecart rails. The minecart (player) only really oscillates between Renegede and Paragon. The game is predominately similar regardless of the path you take, with only slight tangents based on your morality. If you made Shepard look like you, it still does not change what he/she says.

Pardon me if I'm way off base in my response.

Also, I'm somewhat confused as to the implications of your second statement as well.

 

[Auron225]

Depends on the game but I'll assume for the time being that we're taking about games in which you, at least in some way, project yourself onto the player-character.

I like how things such as Mass Effect do it, where there are certain characters and based on decisions you make you can have the PC have a relationship with them. The only thing I don't like about it in ME's case, it is far too easy to have f*cking everyone falling for you! In the first one for instance, if you are a male Shepard then there is only one conversation with Ashley (and certain dialogue options to take) to completely avoid her ever considering you an interest! After that you have to be an asshole to her for her to lose interest. This is just not how relationships work. So if it was much more difficult to be set on the path of romance with the plausible characters then I think it would've worked much better.

It's still a damn lot better than the likes of The Sims where you create both people from scratch - to me that's the equivalent of playing with dolls and making them kiss. Skyrim isn't much better, where it only seems to be there for the sake of it and doesn't actually change ANYTHING in the grand scheme of things.

Basically, I like them if it seems like there is a point to them. If they enhance the story in some way, then great. If not then I'll go with the flow but consider it someone's wasted time & effort.

 

[Vegosiux]

I think RPGs do this best, Baldurs gate and PST both did it, but did it without holding your hand and having some stupid little heart symbol next to the text.

Indeed. Relationships in BG are so easy to mess up. Especially one of them, when you can actually come into a conflict between getting through your current objective smoothly and not making your lover dump you. You can even lock yourself out of them by just trying to keep the catfights under control (Yes, I'm looking at you, Jaehira and Viconia!). And they might also show you how your love interest has an entirely different side...(and this time I'm looking at you, Aerie.)

Romances in Planescape: Torment were interesting too, they weren't the classic type but there's some obvious romantic tension between TNO, Annah and Fall-From-Grace. You can't really pursue either though, what with your entire situation (and one of them killing you if you do, as much as she doesn't want to do that).

 

[AnthrSolidSnake]

Well, it's really obvious when it doesn't work. Skyrim was a god awful example. Married a woman? Now she just stands in the middle of your home giving you the occasional meal....yay, this relationship feels so meaningful. I've had better relationships with vending machines.

However, games where you can actually shape a relationship and interact with it? Those are nice. The Sims is the best example, but that's a life sim game. The only non-sim game I can think of is a few of those JRPG games. They seem to be the only games where the partner actually RESPONDS. Not just "Welcome home my love. Have some soup. Goodbye." Gee...thanks...glad I spent all that time trying to figure out that dumb quest.

 

[Blunderboy]

I think RPGs do this best, Baldurs gate and PST both did it, but did it without holding your hand and having some stupid little heart symbol next to the text (Dragon age 2).

In fact, ive said this before, but this is one of the biggest reasons why Bethesda games suck IMO - no, not because you cant romance an NPC, but because they lack any character development and emotion, youre thrown into a world full of cardboard NPCs.

If done appropriately, (BG, PST and DAO) romance with NPCs can not only add great character depth that can be weaved into the narrative, but allows for a whole list of doors to open for the developers.

So much this.
I still remember the romance that blossomed during my first ever playthough of Baldur's Gate 2.
I was playing your standard Chaotic Good fighter. I was fairly noble, but I also did a few questionable things for cash.
Anyway over the course of the game, via my actions and responses (which I did with no thought to romance, I didn't even know that was an option.) I was surprised and touched when a romance blossomed with Jaheria, who had been with me for so very long.
It felt natural and real.

I've yet to experience another romance like it in a game.

 

[Rariow]

The only game that I've played that's pulled romance off well was Katawa Shoujo, and that was an entirely romance-dedicated visual novel that borders on not even being a game.

The problem with the BioWare approach to romance is that it's just too damn easy to achieve. Half the time I don't plan to romance anybody, and end up getting the possibility of romancing at least half the characters anybody. Th other half I have to avoid talking to anybody but my chosen romance interest because, except by being a complete dick to them, I can't avoid triggering romance plots. It just doesn't feel like anything special, it's just another conversation in a dialogue tree. KotOR probably came closest to doing it right, in that the romance was an integral part of the game's story, but even then, it felt more like normal conversation leading up to random declarations of love than anything else.

The Fable/Skyrim approach is even worse. In Skyrim, I ended up having to wander through Whiterun talking to every female in sight because I couldn't remember who my spouse was beyond those two criteria. The fact that the effect of the spouse on gameplay was practically non-existent made it worse. Whereas in BioWare games you're at least dependent on your partner as a party member, with this system the most you'll get is a few hundred gold coins a day, which, when you're carrying around a good twenty thousand of the buggers, isn't really that important.

The Sims approach is at least mechanics-based, but even then... there's something inherently creepy about it, and since the best way to accomplish it is to spam the same action over and over... not really all that fantastic.

In short: Romance in a game has to be reflected mechanically, be integral to the plot, and, if optional, not feel like a series of normal conversations leading up to naughty time. Flirting usually helps.

Also: if you're interested in investigating romance in games, I seriously recommend the YouTube series "Metadating". Pretty interesting stuff, very in-depth look into that kind of thing. Not as creepy a concept as it sounds, either. Shame that it doesn't look like it's getting a second season.

 

[w9496]

I wouldn't mind romance in games if it were more like a relationship rather than the sexual conquest that inhabits most games with such a feature. Even games with passable romances like Mass Effect are a bit guilty of this.

 

[Caiphus]

I generally shy away from romances in games. I dunno, it just doesn't turn me on. And I'm far from being asexual, so don't get me wrong.

It's difficult to pinpoint why. So let me try.

Partly because the romances in Bioware-type games feel oddly mechanical. Push the paragon/benevolent options, receive vagina.
I don't know how they'd fix that, but that's how it feels to me. It's simultaneously too easy and too difficult. You tap a few buttons and away you go. Horizontal waltz, fill your boots. Hope you didn't decide to play the game in the living room while the family are trying to watch Coronation Street.
But then if you happened to miss one of the buttons, uh oh, no hanky panky for you. Didn't compliment the girl at the right time, now it's barred forever. Pester the helpless bint after every mission all you like, won't change anything because you didn't schmooze hard enough after she killed her dad (or kidnapped her sister, or any other strange family issues).

And then partly because most of the love interests are crazy. They want your semen to make an Old God, or used to be a career assassin, or whatever.

And then many of the options don't turn me on. Which maybe makes me weird. I saw the Tali love threads. I saw the quarian forum avatars. Made me feel wrong for wanting to punch a ************ every time someone said "Keelah se'lai".

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

For me to think an NPC/PC romance works I must first actually give a damn about the NPC in question. Skyrim and Fable have failed at this while games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect have soared. I may not have liked every choice in those latter game examples but that was the point, I felt for some of them and disliked or even hated the others but I FELT something. Skyrim and Fable both had NPC's I didn't give a flying fuck about, which is why I probably killed them in at least one playthrough.
Thats pretty much it. Must make me feel something, and must be interesting enough to warrant a relationship. GTA IV has also failed at this pretty much en toto.

 

[b.w.irenicus]

Partly because the romances in Bioware-type games feel oddly mechanical. Push the paragon/benevolent options, receive vagina.

To be fair, thats a symptom only of more recent Bioware-games, which in generel have become much more schematic.

more OT: If the romances are well done, I think they enrich the experience and deliver some replay value. Baldur's Gate 2 was awesome in that regard, but the newer Bioware titeles are solid as well. Althoutz it buggs be, that to Bioware every romance seems to be some kind of therapy...

Other games I liked romances in were The Darkness, because Jenny came across like a real person and actually the first two Ar Tonelico-games for the PS2. They had some sexual-innuendo (nothing explicit though), which may turn some gamers away. I on the other hand felt that the two possible romances seemed more real by not excluding the physical attraction like most other (j)RPGs, because that is an important factor in relationships after all.

 

[GabeZhul]

I would say the biggest hurdle BioWare-style romances in RPGs have to overcome is voice acting. No, I don't mean having bad voice actors, but the fact that nowadays it is required that every single spoken line in a game is voice-acted, lip-synced and seamlessly inserted into a cut-scene, which requires an insane amount of time and money from the developer to implement.

This is the reason why we have these oddly mechanical romances with no small-talk or setups, jumping right to the romance-flags whenever you talk to the characters and why all the dialogs are very stream-lined to begin with. It is also the reason why we no longer see winding, several-pages long dialogs as in the Baldur's Gate series or in Torment, since recording voice-acting on that scale would cost a fortune by itself.

 

[Loop Stricken]

Also, having a player avatar involved inevitably turns it into an exercise in ego-stroking. "Ohhh yes, Mr Totally Not A Sweaty Nerd, you were the right one for me all along! How could I not see it?!" After all, you can't leave those players feeling like anything other than a mega-manly badass or they might not buy the sequel.

The Mass Effect romances exemplify this well. They certainly had their good moments and got a few "aww"s out of me, but they were pretty trite and sorta cheapened the characters at times.

Are... are you trlling me that Tali'zorah never truly loved me?!
No... NO! This is unacceptable!

You! You shall be ended for this treachery!

 

[Drummodino]

The only games I've really felt like that romances with the player worked were Persona 3 and 4 and Katawa Shoujo. Mostly because they actually felt like real romances between believable characters. Bioware romances feel too much like ticking off a checklist leading to sex.

Although I have to say the romances in Mass Effect and similar games are a million times better than games like Skyrim, again because the characters feel more like actual people, not a canned dialogue spouter/pack mule.

 

[NortherWolf]

Baldurs Gate 2 had good romance. Okay, Viconia/Jaheira was good...I'm still trying to find a game that matches it. I think that was why I liked Mass Effect...It offered romance options.

Edit: The post felt a bit short. I'm somewhat of a romantic, so a game with romance in it I'll probably check out. Like Zhukov said though, a lot of gaming romance feels...'eh'.
It's also hampered by the time frame many modern games take place in. Mass Effect for example takes place during what, a few days/couple of weeks? And yet the one you aim your penis/breasts at fall madly in love with you, the perfect person they've talked to like four times.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I enjoy it when its an option. Forced romances never work for me even if its implied or very subtle. Sometimes subtle optional romances are my favorite. Revan and bastila is a great example of this. Favorite romance option of all time has to be shepard and tali even if it got massacred in the third game.